Official Game Thread - Week 13 - SNF - Broncos @ Commanders

[skinsmarydu]

I just cannot understand being happy about this result.

I, for one, am not happy...but I'm not gonna freak out either, been doing this here fan thing since '73. (Anyone remember the Norv season where the only 2 games we won were against Dallass?) My boss at the time (from Buffalo, huge Bills fan) called me and asked, "Are you off the ceiling yet?"
When you've seen the best and the rest, it's much better on the mental health to just chill when shit goes sideways.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Where are all our winning habits we learned last year?

Listen, when we draft high this offseason and are able to draft whoever your new favorite player ends up being, when you buy the jersey try not to think about the fact that if we’d won some of these games we wouldn’t have them.

You can cherry pick all you want. It is inarguable that getting your top choice of MORE players is better than getting your top choice of LESS players, over a large sample size, even if the best players at premium positions don’t always go earlier, they generally do.

Pretty silly to even be having this discussion (which isn’t about your right to ROOT for wins, but about the idea that in a vacuum a higher pick somehow isn’t better). Somehow I suspect if we were trying to build this franchise around Penix instead of Daniels because Rivera had some useless victories at the end of his tenure, you’d be less happy.

If Faithful Fan wants to argue that winning is good and we should all be rooting for the team to win well I have no argument. Who could argue that?

But were he lost it was when he tried to claim that the 5th pick is not more valuable than the 12th pick. There really isn't an argument for this position but I'm happy to let him continue to try. Waiting for him to argue that a 6rh is more valuable than a 2nd because, well, Tom Brady. That's what this poster is trying to do with his examples.

 

[Chris 44]

A couple more thoughts:

This is a different offense with McLaurin.

I think this is a different defense with Will Harris.

I'm lowkey excited about Moody. Don't want to jinx anything.

Mariota needs to come back next year.

I have voiced my displeasure for TMs holdout shenanigans but there is no doubt whatsoever the difference he makes when he is on the field. Not only him as a receiver but what it allows others to do. If we had another legit WR opposite TM that would be absolutely huge. Ertz and others really benefited from having TM on the field Sunday night.

Mariota in Paulson's words is a "warrior". Borderline low end starter and we are lucky to have him as our backup.

 

[Bulldog]

I agree on McLaurin to the degree he looks outstanding specifically because this team has so little behind him and across from him at the current time.

Perhaps Treylon Burks with his size and athleticism has a future here and can be a piece we develop at cheap cost, but I don't see any other physical specimens with the time in playing the outside to have an impact.

McCaffrey and Lane are slot receivers and don't appear to be guys the team is comfortable moving outside.

They would rather start Chris Moore (even when McCaffrey was healthy).

That's signal #1 that this unit needs a complete makeover.

To me you bring back McLaurin, Burks and Lane and then go into free agency and draft and find legitimate NFL starting talent to come in and push this unit forward.

BTW, Ben Sinnott is a bust. 3 catches for 33 yards.

That's pathetic in Year 2.

Time to get tough with Sinnott and Johnny Newton, two guys that seem to be coasting along enjoying the NFL lifestyle but putting little blood on the field each Sunday when they are available.

If after 2 years Newton is still only good enough to be the #3 or #4 DT on THIS defense, that is a loud alarm bell.

Those are a couple of big potential whiffs on the part of Adam Peters.

And we haven't exactly come up with Russ Grimm in Round 3 or Dexter Manley in Round 5 to make up for it.

 

[Chris 44]

I agree on McLaurin to the degree he looks outstanding specifically because this team has so little behind him and across from him at the current time.

Perhaps Treylon Burks with his size and athleticism has a future here and can be a piece we develop at cheap cost, but I don't see any other physical specimens with the time in playing the outside to have an impact.

McCaffrey and Lane are slot receivers and don't appear to be guys the team is comfortable moving outside.

They would rather start Chris Moore (even when McCaffrey was healthy).

That's signal #1 that this unit needs a complete makeover.

To me you bring back McLaurin, Burks and Lane and then go into free agency and draft and find legitimate NFL starting talent to come in and push this unit forward.

BTW, Ben Sinnott is a bust. 3 catches for 33 yards.

That's pathetic in Year 2.

Time to get tough with Sinnott and Johnny Newton, two guys that seem to be coasting along enjoying the NFL lifestyle but putting little blood on the field each Sunday when they are available.

If after 2 years Newton is still only good enough to be the #3 or #4 DT on THIS defense, that is a loud alarm bell.

Those are a couple of big potential whiffs on the part of Adam Peters.

And we haven't exactly come up with Russ Grimm in Round 3 or Dexter Manley in Round 5 to make up for it.

In reference to your point about Sinnott, I remembering that when Yankoff made a catch in the game thinking why is that not Sinnott? Is Sinnott now number 4 on the TE depth chart?

 

[Faithful Fan]

If Faithful Fan wants to argue that winning is good and we should all be rooting for the team to win well I have no argument. Who could argue that?

Apparently a lot of people. How else am I to understand people hoping we lose to improve our draft position, calling the loss good, saying losing was the best result, and all the upvotes on posts making those claims? Oddly enough, my view that winning is better than losing seems to be a minority position.

And yes I do understand people believe losing now will lead to winning later, but I have my doubts about that. It seems to me there are a lot of perennial losers like us, the Browns, and the Jags who rarely get better by losing as well as perennial winners like the Eagles, Chiefs, and Patriots who rarely get worse by winning. But if there is data to show otherwise, then please point me to it.

But were he lost it was when he tried to claim that the 5th pick is not more valuable than the 12th pick. There really isn't an argument for this position but I'm happy to let him continue to try. Waiting for him to argue that a 6rh is more valuable than a 2nd because, well, Tom Brady. That's what this poster is trying to do with his examples.

I didn’t claim that a 5th pick is no more valuable than a 12th, I said “it is not obvious that the 5th pick is so much better than the 12th” that we should be celebrating losses. I did list the 5th and 12th picks from the last three drafts, but people are free to make their own inferences from that.

Tom Brady and Brock Purdy are good examples that great players can be found throughout the draft, just as Heath Shuler, RG3, and Chase Young are familiar examples that top-5 picks can bust, but obviously neither is meant as proof that 6th and 7th round picks are more valuable than 1st round picks. It just shows that the draft is somewhat of a crapshoot and good and bad players are picked everywhere from pick 1 to pick 257.

And again to be clear, of course higher draft picks will be better on average than lower picks, and it is either dishonest or unsophisticated to pretend I think otherwise. My main point is you do not need to lose on purpose to build a good roster.

 

[method man]

Im

I agree on McLaurin to the degree he looks outstanding specifically because this team has so little behind him and across from him at the current time.

Perhaps Treylon Burks with his size and athleticism has a future here and can be a piece we develop at cheap cost, but I don't see any other physical specimens with the time in playing the outside to have an impact.

McCaffrey and Lane are slot receivers and don't appear to be guys the team is comfortable moving outside.

They would rather start Chris Moore (even when McCaffrey was healthy).

That's signal #1 that this unit needs a complete makeover.

To me you bring back McLaurin, Burks and Lane and then go into free agency and draft and find legitimate NFL starting talent to come in and push this unit forward.

BTW, Ben Sinnott is a bust. 3 catches for 33 yards.

That's pathetic in Year 2.

Time to get tough with Sinnott and Johnny Newton, two guys that seem to be coasting along enjoying the NFL lifestyle but putting little blood on the field each Sunday when they are available.

If after 2 years Newton is still only good enough to be the #3 or #4 DT on THIS defense, that is a loud alarm bell.

Those are a couple of big potential whiffs on the part of Adam Peters.

And we haven't exactly come up with Russ Grimm in Round 3 or Dexter Manley in Round 5 to make up for it.

Sinnott is a cut candidate for me in camp next year. I wouldn't be shy about taking a TE Day 3 next year.

Newton is nothing more than a rotation DT for me who is gone after his rookie contract

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

And again to be clear, of course higher draft picks will be better on average than lower picks, and it is either dishonest or unsophisticated to pretend I think otherwise. My main point is you do not need to lose on purpose to build a good roster.

Are there many examples of teams losing on purpose? Particularly losing on purpose enough to secure X draft pick.

Bad teams lose because they are bad. Coaches don’t care about next years draft slot.

Personally, once I know there’s no hope for the playoffs, winning no longer matters to me. It’s more about how you win and lose games once out of contention. There are a few times in my life where I’ve actively rooted for a loss for the sake of a draft slot. Jets 2023 being the most recent and important. Best of both worlds, team showed fight but lost in the end - helping us to secure Jayden. That said, I won’t be sad to see Jayden come back healthy and spoil the Cowboys Christmas. It’s just the winning no longer matters, because it literally doesn’t for the 2025 season. Not actively rooting to lose, just way less invested.

 

[Dlts20]

Tunsil was great and honestly, Connerly looked even better than him, although with some help. I still think that holding on the TD was bs. What else can a 6'5 lineman do on a play like that. The defender went so low that it wasn't even a football play anymore

 

[Faithful Fan]

Are there many examples of teams losing on purpose?

Thankfully not, but I can find some fans who think we should (assuming they mean it when they say losing is better than winning).

Personally, once I know there’s no hope for the playoffs, winning no longer matters to me.

I’ve posed this question already but got no response: What should we make of Joe Gibbs’ first season, when we started 0-5 but finished 8-3? Did those wins not matter because there was no hope for the playoffs? Because the story I heard is that Joe was on the hot seat early that year, but the turnaround inspired confidence and helped catapult us to our first Super Bowl the following year. Is that not so?

That said, I won’t be sad to see Jayden come back healthy and spoil the Cowboys Christmas.

On that point we are in complete agreement.