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My Problem with Shannahan

McKissic for the win

the Omniscient

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First, I apologize for not posting here for so long. I am very fickle and my mind changes constantly. Hopefully you guys will read and comment.

I am not happy with Shannahan and it is not because of his player acquisitions. I am unhappy with him because of the coaches he has chosen to be in charge of the development of our young players. I feel they are not being put in position to win.

With Shannahan’s year off from football, he claimed that he not only studied players, but he also studied coaches and schemes. I was real excited about this claim. Now, I am curious as to what he studied. I would really like to hear the reasons for each hire.

I never wanted Shanahan here. I was never a fan. However, he brought a professionalism that Jim Zorn, Vinny Cerrato and the Skins lacked for years. It was easy to get excited hearing a professional talk, at least for me.

Now the following numbers and stats do not tell a complete story, they are just a portion of it, a mere snapshot of a coach’s career. There are tons of holes in this argument; however, I think there are some valid points here.

Here are the coaches in question: Chris Foerster, Bob Slowik, Jacob Burney, Jim Haslett

It is hard to find information about the kind of systems each position coach or coordinator has run. If anyone has resources regarding this matter, please share them

Chris Foerster (Offensive Line Coach): Some of you may remember me questioning this move. Has he ever run a Zone Blocking Scheme? I don’t think so, but there is a good possibility I am wrong. Even if he has, his track record is poor.

Please note that sacks and rushing average do not tell a whole story about whether or not an O-line coach is good. There are other factors such as offensive talent, QB, and receivers. However, sacks and rushing avg are a part of the problem. Here is Foerster’s recent history:

Miami Dolphins Offensive Coordinator
2004

Offensive Rank – 28 (offensive ranking goes solely by points scored)

Baltimore Ravens Offensive Line Coach
2005
Offense - Sacks 42 (total allowed) Rushing – 3.6 YPA
Offensive rank: 25

2006
Offense – Sacks 17 (total allowed) Rushing – 3.4 YPA
Offensive rank: 12

2007
Offense – Sacks 39 (total allowed) Rushing - 4.0 YPA
Offensive rank: 24

San Francisco 49ers Offensive Line Coach
2008 (took over on week 8)

Offense – Sacks 55 (total allowed) Rushing – 4.0 YPA
Offensive rank – 22

2009
Offense – Sacks 40 (total allowed) Rushing – 4.3 YPA
Offensive rank - 18

So why am I picking on Foerster? Our offense is o.k. He did well at the end of last year. However, the o-line is abysmal this year outside of option and pistol plays. When we are lining up in regular NFL formations, we are getting our butts kicked. Has Forester developed anyone for the Skins? No. Trent Williams is the only on that could be argued, but he is naturally athletic and aggressive. Everyone else on this line is easily replaceable. His track record is poor. Why did Shanny hire him???

I think we should look elsewhere this offseason for an O-line coach.


Bob Slowik (Linebackers Coach): Really his name is all I should have to say. Just speaking his name should run chills down your spine. This is the guy that is in charge of getting young talent such as Kerrigan up to speed. Prior to the Skins, has this guy ever coached a 3-4 system? I don’t think so. In the 3-4 the linebackers are very valuable. So why leave them to be coached by a slug? We miss Lou Spanos more than people realize. This guy is currently killing one of our most valuable positions. He is a good friend of Shannahan’s. What scares me is that he is likely to stay on the roster no matter what. He may even move up to defensive coordinator one day. It would be a travesty.

Chicago Bears Defensive Coordinator
1993

Defensive rank: 3rd (defensive ranking goes solely on points scored) This is his best year.

1994
Defensive rank: 10th

1995
Defensive rank: 22nd

1996
Defensive rank: 12th

1997
Defensive rank: 29th

1998

Defensive rank: 23rd

Cleveland Browns Defensive Coordinator

1999
Defensive rank: 29th

********Not sure what he did between 1999-2004*********

Green Bay Packers Defensive Coordinator

2004
Defensive rank: 23rd

Denver Broncos

2005-2006/2007 (Defensive Backs Coach)
Keep in mind here, he coached a veteran Champ Bailey and John Lynch, both are Pro-Bowlers

2005

Defensive Passing Rank: 29th (based on Yards Per Game) Interceptions: 6th (based on ranking)

2006

Defensive Passing Rank: 21st Interceptions: 13th

2007 (DB Coach/ Defensive Coordinator)

Defensive Passing Rank: 21st Interceptions: 26th

Defensive Rank: 28th

2008 Defensive Coordinator

Defensive Rank: 30th

2009 (not sure where he was, out of the NFL?)

Washington Redskins Defensive Backs Coach

2010

Defensive Passing Rank: 31st Interceptions: 22nd

2011

Defensive Passing Rank: 12th Interceptions: 22nd

Jacob Burney (Defensive Line Coach): I would be o.k. with him if we were running a 4-3 defense. However, we are not, and I am not sure that he has ever run a predominately 3-4 defensive front.

Denver Broncos Defensive Line Coach

2002

Defensive Rank: 15th Sacks: 10th
YPA: 9th (Rushing Avg.)
2003

Defensive Rank: 9th Sacks: 14th
YPA: 9th

2004

Defensive Rank: 9th Sacks: 14th
YPA: 9th

2005

Defensive Rank: 3rd Sacks: 29th
YPA: 19th

2006

Defensive Rank: 8th Sacks: 15th
YPA: 18th

2007

Defensive Rank: 28th Sacks: 16th
YPA: 30th

2008
Defensive Rank: 30th Sacks: 26th
YPA: 31st

2009 (Not sure where he was, out of the NFL?)

2010
Defensive Rank: 21st Sacks: 26th
YPA: 25th

2011
Defensive Rank: 21st Sacks: 10th
YPA: 18th

2012
Defensive Rank: 27th Sacks: 25th
YPA: 18th

Jim Haslett: This name should be synonymous with Bob Slowik. He sucks!!!!!! I was willing to give him a chance a couple of years ago, but the more I have learned about football, the more I realize his schemes are horrible and he does not know how to run a 4-3 much less a 3-4. He lacks the balls to run the 3-4.

I am going to save myself some time and leave Haslett’s record out of this conversation. Everyone that is a Redskins fan should know it by now. He is horrible. I wanted to give him a shot a couple of years ago, but it was a horrible decision.

In my opinion Shannahan does not know coaches like he thinks he does. I imagine Shannahan grabbed a bunch of guys that he was familiar with and not necessarily ones that were great at their jobs.

To me, Shannahan is a Super Bowl winning Norv Turner. Sounds bad, but true. He is a great offensive coordinator that is not head coaching material. He is the Rex Grossman of head coaches, he thinks he’s great, he thinks he is Brett Favre, but he does not have the arm strength to get it done.

Shannahan sucks at putting together winning staffs, something Joe Gibbs excelled at. Joe Gibbs philosophy was, 'I hire people smarter than me.’ Shannahan’s philosophy is 'I am the smartest, and you are all second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. It is not my fault, but yours.’

I am willing to give Shannahan until the end of this year. I need to see improvement in the second half. I believe coaches should get a full five years. However, an intelligent man will change his mind when opposing information presents itself.

If I was Allen/Snyder, I would demand an improvement following the bye and I would demand Foerster, Slowik, Burney (if continuing with the 3-4) and Haslett are released at the end of the year.

If those guys are not let go, and if he does not improve: bye bye Shannahan!!!!!

If Shannahan cannot make it as a head coach/GM/President, it would be better to go with a dedicated head coach, a separate GM and talent evaluator. It is time to get rid of the all in one coaches and go after guys that can just be a leaders. Guys like Joe Gibbs, guys that do not mind others being great and pushing the team to success.

We need guys that are willing to surround themselves with talent and guys that are willing to delegate and hold others responsible. If we do not have these guys, we will never win!!!!
 

SkinsFTW

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The thing I remember about him hiring Haslett was that there were a few great DC's out of work at the time. That hire was a real head scratcher considering Shanahan proved his past several years in Denver that he had no idea what to do about the defense. Maybe Slowik and Burney are Shanahans version of Vinny Cerrato to Snyder if they were out of the league the one year Shanahan didn't coach. That's really encouraging haha...
 

Miles Monroe

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From Shanny's demeanor as of late, I'm pretty sure he's come to the realization he has to make some changes in staff.

That, or he's a complete moron...
 

burgold

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Shanahan has seemingly changed from year 1 to year 3.

The guy who benched Haynesworth and took absolutely no guff has become much more slack. Would year 1 Shanny not have benched Morgan and Hall for their costly tirades? Would year 1 Shanny not have demanded better from his team or talked about evaluation? Would year 1 Shanny have tolerated being the penalized team in the league even if quite a few of these calls seem to be dubious?

There's something wrong here.
 

Goaldeje

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James Madison

Damn Omni, way to make your presence known with authority. :)

Good to see you back around. As to your post, I think Neo has been harping on the Slowik hiring since it happened, and we all pretty much hate Haz. Burney was the one that interested me the most when I saw him on your list. I don't have a great feeling about any of these guys, especially when I look at the dearth of moves that Rak has in his arsenal. It would be nice to get someone out there who can coach him up specifically on what to do if his bull rush is stymied. Kerrigan can use a bit of coaching as well to be fair. He is an excellent effort guy, but probably needs some fine-tuning as well.
 

the Omniscient

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I think a big problem here is that we do not have any winners. None of our coaches have great pedigrees and have never run the systems we are trying to run. Why does Shanny want them?

Haslett, Burney, and Slowik all appear to have been out of the NFL in 2009 as far as I could tell. I could be wrong however. But, why were they out of the NFL?

I still don't mind the switch to the 3-4 (really don't want to get into the discussion), but I do mind the lack of experience our coaching staff has in this defense. This defense has been set up to fail since the beginning. When you lack the knowledge to run a certain defense, you cannot run that defense properly.

Shannahan has failed tremendously in my opinion. The only way he can save face is to fire a good amount of the coaching staff. If he does not, he needs to go.

Also, I did not add the WR coaches we have had, Hilliard and McCardell.

Shannahan has to do better!!


welcome to the darkside, we have cookies
Funny, I have a shirt that says that.
 

Beans

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I agree. Everything has turned into a giant clusterfudge. So much so, that as a fan, I have no idea what it's going to take to get this team competitive. I guess just build around RG3 and hope that eventually the defense "gets it"?
 

Lanky Livingston

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Dark thought of the day: Shanahan actually doesn't care about winning, he just wanted to get one last payday for himself and his buddies before they all retire.
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Beans

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Dark thought of the day: Shanahan actually doesn't care about winning, he just wanted to get one last payday for himself and his buddies before they all retire.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
Nah. He wants to win. Who doesn't? I think it's fair however to question how much hard work he is willing to put in at this point. ls he on cruise control a la Spurrier or is he going to fight his guts out a la Gibbs?
 

the Omniscient

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He definitely wants to win.

But, we have to question which is more important to him, great coaching or helping friends get jobs.

We will see at the end of the season which is more important.

I will say this, if we fire Haslett and allow Morris to take over and we still run a 3-4, we are in trouble. We need coaches that fit the system we are trying to run.

I play music and use jazz elements in my playing, it does not mean I can play jazz.

Goaldeje: Just wanted to say thanks for the welcome back :)
 

SkinsFTW

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But, we have to question which is more important to him, great coaching or helping friends get jobs.
Well when Gibbs came back he brought all his old buddies back too but they were all proven winners, unlike the crew Shanahan dragged out of retirement. Slowik was who got Shanahan fired in Denver.
 

China

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Michigan State

My Dark Thought of the Day: Shanahan fires Haslett at the end of the year and replaces him with Slowik.
 

the Omniscient

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My Dark Thought of the Day: Shanahan fires Haslett at the end of the year and replaces him with Slowik.

Yeah, I wrote that in my original post and it is something I am worried about.

The more I think about it, the more I want Shanny gone, which goes against everything I believe in. I believe coaches should get a full five years. But, with all of Shanny's hiring mistakes, I think it may be best that he goes.

It took Chuck Noll 4 years to build a quality football team, but there was improvement every year. It took Tom Landry seven. It takes time.

It may be better to move on now at the beginning of RGIII's career instead of two years from now. I believe in stability, I just don't see the players responding. I believe we will get blown out by a crap Philly team. I bet we don't even pressure Vick at all.

If there is no improvement in these final games, Shanny needs to go.
 

SC_RedskinsFan

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I agree, unless something improves these last 7 games, Shanny is done. I also see Philly putting 40-50 points on us. I would love for us to come out of the bye on fire, but it is just not in me anymore to think that is going to happen......
 

redskins76

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with the bye week upon us aleast we don't have to worry bout losing this week....sad to say but with this defense we have, i don't see us winning a game unless we put 50 on the board every game !:help:
 

SkinsFTW

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I agree, unless something improves these last 7 games, Shanny is done. I also see Philly putting 40-50 points on us. I would love for us to come out of the bye on fire, but it is just not in me anymore to think that is going to happen......
Last time we played Philly after bye week they put up 59 points. :oops:
 

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