Morris time. For several reasons.

He's had a season and a half and many want to run him out of town already. You can argue all you want but you cannot refute that fact.

And some of the Hall of Fame coaches he's being graded against started out equally shaky. I mean, except for all that confidence they were exuding :)


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What has he done to deserve to major defense? Have you seen anything where you can go "he did that"?

I can't. I even try and I can't think of anything.

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Wonder where Cincy would be right now if they'd fired Marvin Lewis like the fans there have called for over the last 4-5 years?

Or if they did what the fans wanted as recently as last season and cut Andy Dalton, because he was perceived as not a franchise guy?

Mike wants to know why this team doesn't have an identity? Hard to have an identity when we keep rotating coaches in and out every couple of years.......

Hard to be run first,smash mouth when you have one steady piece on the OL in Williams and the other four are getting OTJ training because the previous GM's never truly valued the draft and picks enough to put young talent on the line over the years.

How do you run much of anything with Josh LeRibeus starting at C?

This roster has been mismanaged for multiple decades. That's a pretty high hurdle to get over for starters and that's not even counting the salary cap penalty and it's role in further decimating any depth we might have had.

Everybody here wants to win. We just have to give Scott the time to clean up the dumpster fire this roster's been first and that's gonna require...yes, more patience.

Give him two more offseason/drafts and let's see what we look like/how we operate.
 
So, the reason we don't have an identity after almost 2 seasons is we fired our head coach? He's still here though and still coaching.

And we still have no identity. Sorry, but nobody has been fired.

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Well the Saints defense is a swinging door this year.

If the Redskins can't sustain drives, hold onto the ball and run for at least league average yardage then the back end of the schedule you best cover your eyes for.
 
No doubt it's time for some ALMO! Gruden needs to stick to it this week and don't care if he uses Darrel Young as lead blocker..as many blocking TE's as possible etc.

Getting back to 30 attempts a game is how to get them back on track.
 
DieselPwr44 said:
Wonder where Cincy would be right now if they'd fired Marvin Lewis like the fans there have called for over the last 4-5 years?

Or if they did what the fans wanted as recently as last season and cut Andy Dalton, because he was perceived as not a franchise guy?

Mike wants to know why this team doesn't have an identity? Hard to have an identity when we keep rotating coaches in and out every couple of years.......

Hard to be run first,smash mouth when you have one steady piece on the OL in Williams and the other four are getting OTJ training because the previous GM's never truly valued the draft and picks enough to put young talent on the line over the years.

How do you run much of anything with Josh LeRibeus starting at C?

This roster has been mismanaged for multiple decades. That's a pretty high hurdle to get over for starters and that's not even counting the salary cap penalty and it's role in further decimating any depth we might have had.

Everybody here wants to win. We just have to give Scott the time to clean up the dumpster fire this roster's been first and that's gonna require...yes, more patience.

Give him two more offseason/drafts and let's see what we look like/how we operate.
Click to expand...

I don't think anybody is arguing the fact the roster was less the ideal when Scott came on board, and it will take some time to build something worth talkin about. People yell for coaches to get canned across the league. Hell, Coughlin has been a regular on that hit parade for ever, even a season after winning it all, two losses, and people go all ape shit to can him. This is a bit different. Lewis had a slow but constant progression of improvement from one season to the next. Look at the coaches I brought up.... they all came in and basically made their players produce, because they didn't try to sledge hammer a square peg into a round hole with their systems.

So this season we have mostly new guys on the o line... what happened last season ? We had what Shanny had left us with, and our running game declined drastically. Doesn't sound like Morris is the problem...... it's the coaching.
 
DieselPwr44 said:
Wonder where Cincy would be right now if they'd fired Marvin Lewis like the fans there have called for over the last 4-5 years?

Or if they did what the fans wanted as recently as last season and cut Andy Dalton, because he was perceived as not a franchise guy?

Mike wants to know why this team doesn't have an identity? Hard to have an identity when we keep rotating coaches in and out every couple of years.......

Hard to be run first,smash mouth when you have one steady piece on the OL in Williams and the other four are getting OTJ training because the previous GM's never truly valued the draft and picks enough to put young talent on the line over the years.

How do you run much of anything with Josh LeRibeus starting at C?

This roster has been mismanaged for multiple decades. That's a pretty high hurdle to get over for starters and that's not even counting the salary cap penalty and it's role in further decimating any depth we might have had.

Everybody here wants to win. We just have to give Scott the time to clean up the dumpster fire this roster's been first and that's gonna require...yes, more patience.

Give him two more offseason/drafts and let's see what we look like/how we operate.
Click to expand...

Not speaking for anyone else, but I think the disconnect with me is that Scot said he wants to run the ball well and be a physical team (which is better than Viagra for any Redskins fan) and Gruden just isn't doing that. At all. When people are under pressure, they reveal their "true" selves. Gruden, under pressure in the middle of games, looks to throw. Instead of settling everyone down by running the ball a few times, he looks to the air.

That's fine, IF that is the plan your GM has put into place and has set you up personnel-wise for. Unfortunately, in our case, that's not the case.

I really think that barring a return to early season form in the running game, Scot will let Gruden go at the end of the year because their styles aren't meshing.
 
tr1 said:
You know, Gruden has had some real head-scratcher calls along the way, too. Remember 4th-11...I think we were only down by 2 scores in the 2nd quarter.
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I think he was competing with Belli on the other sideline.

On that first drive the Pats went for it on 4th down, and then the onside kick...

It just looked like a confident team with a confident coach. I think Gruden though he needed to show the same kinda moxie. LOL
 
I'm not overwrought. I'm tired of excuses. I'm tired of watching other teams turn it around in a year or two.

Yes, I'm comparing Gruden with Gibbs. So what? Want to coach the Redskins, be prepared to be measured by Gibbs success. Just as guys in Frisco will be measured against Walsh, guys in Green Bay will be measured against Lombardi and Holmgren, guys in Pittsburgh will get measured against Noll and guys in Dallas will get measured against Landry and Johnson. Is that fair? Probably not. Is it reality? Yeah. Get used to it.

And for the record, I don't think I am being harsh with Gruden.

You didn't see me gripping last year when he didn't go 8-8 his first season like Gibbs did. You also have not seen me screaming about him being required to win it all this year, his second, like Gibbs did. I'm not asking for those things at all.

What I want is to see him be is a damn coach like Gibbs was. That's it. Coach.

Gibbs came in from San Diego where he ran the Air Coryell offense to perfection. He had Foutes and Winslow and Joiner and Jefferson and they were the offense Mike Martz wanted to run when he grew up. Gibbs thought he could bring it to DC. He started 0-5. After that 5th loss he sat down, evaluated the team and talent at hand, and created the modern One Back Offense. He invented the H-back position. And he won. A lot. What he didn't do was get up at the presser after that 5th loss and blame his QB. He didn't stand in front of the press on Wednesday and say "What we do works".

That's what I want from Jay. I want him to look at this team and figure out how to use the guys he has now. We have an awesome FB in Darrell Young. Why is he not used more? Alfred Morris didn't suddenly forget how to run the football, why is he no longer getting the carries and yards he used to get? Instead of trying to force square pegs into round holes, it's Gruden's job to make the holes square. Period.

The Head Coach matters guys. He matters. You want proof that isn't in the Hall of Fame? Look at Miami where they fired Philben and promoted the TE coach to be HC. How is that working out for them? And without changing the QB either. Or drafting the "right" guys. Or signing any new Free Agents. Or a training camp. Or 5 damn years. And don't tell me that Miami team is just loaded with talent either because frankly I don't think it's any deeper than the Skins are. Campbell came in there, told them what their identity was and then backed it up on Sunday by making sure the play calling reflected that identity. He directed both coordinators to work to the strengths of the team and the team responded. Imagine that.

It isn't rocket science but Jay is trying to turn it into that.

I don't care of Jay wins or loses right now. What I want to see is him getting the most of the talent he does have and he just isn't doing it.
 
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Well, ok.

All I really wanted to say in this thread was that Morris should be running the ball more, and if he doesn't, Jones should be running the ball more. I am dismayed to see Morris phased out like Stephen Davis was, for basically the same reason and with basically the same results (worse, actually, so far).

That's pretty much it. I don't have the answers to life, the universe and everything, but when I see something obvious I'll point it out. Gruden and/or Callahan look completely lost schematically out there, particularly when it comes to running the ball. I really can't believe a mediocre guard and center on a mediocre team is the difference between being 14th in ypa and 29th. There is more going on than that. I sure hope they figure it out.
 
You can predict what would happen against the Patriots... A disciplined team, no matter how badly injured along the OL, will probably always destroy the Redskins. However, the Saints aren't any more disciplined than the Redskins, so you can't really predict what will happen. This is a pick'em (50/50) game to me.

If Morris & Jones both get more than 10 carries, we have a shot... but they need to combine for 25-30 carries.

If we abandon the run, and show a lack of discipline, we don't have a shot against any NFL team.
 
Goaldeje said:
Not speaking for anyone else, but I think the disconnect with me is that Scot said he wants to run the ball well and be a physical team (which is better than Viagra for any Redskins fan) and Gruden just isn't doing that. At all. When people are under pressure, they reveal their "true" selves. Gruden, under pressure in the middle of games, looks to throw. Instead of settling everyone down by running the ball a few times, he looks to the air.

That's fine, IF that is the plan your GM has put into place and has set you up personnel-wise for. Unfortunately, in our case, that's not the case.

I really think that barring a return to early season form in the running game, Scot will let Gruden go at the end of the year because their styles aren't meshing.
Click to expand...

Once again...I agree with the basics of your narrative Goal! I would nuance it with fol: there are parts of the passing game Gruden calls that are basically extensions of the run.....part of the WC Offense concept anyway in some respects. I agree with your "under pressure" statement 100%. Also agree Scott should pick his guy. Don't know if Allen will allow that at end of season 2. we may get to the point...regrettably....where I think we are headed: a competitive roster that gets us to the play-offs in a weak division....but a coach and QB who will never win against the better coached/better QB'd teams in the league once in the play-offs. Cousins may prove me wrong...I'm pretty confident in my thoughts vis Gruden.
 
I cant agree with that even though I am not a Gruden fan. Norv was left a hell of a team with discipline and experience by one of the greatest coaches of all time. Gruden was handed the keys to a rundown shack by a previous owner who was not even present when the exchange happened.

and, no, I dont count Pettibone as a real head coach.
 
a potent running attack is not a good team full of disciplined players.

All the rest has nothing to do with anything.
 
tr1 said:
The point is, Mike, that even Norv showed improvement in his second year. He was given a team that was 4-12, and ended going 3-13 his first year. They showed improvement going 6-10 in his second year. The team was 9th in offense.
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You should have made that point in your original post then instead of just throwing that out there for people to get upset over. Unless that was your original plan...then you were spot on with it.
 
Smoot Point said:
...If we abandon the run, and show a lack of discipline, we don't have a shot against any NFL team.
Click to expand...

By lack of discipline I assume you mean giving up on the run and having Cousins pass 43 times...like the win against Tampa?

Come on man.

Yes, we need to run the ball more, yes we are more successful with a solid run game, but we've proven (Just 3 weeks ago) this to be wrong.
 
MikeSr619 said:
I cant agree with that even though I am not a Gruden fan. Norv was left a hell of a team with discipline and experience by one of the greatest coaches of all time. Gruden was handed the keys to a rundown shack by a previous owner who was not even present when the exchange happened.
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This should be fun. :)

I disagree with your assessment of the post-Gibbs Redskins. That team got old in 1992 and Casserly gutted it in 1993. There was nothing left by the time Norv took over. We opened that season with John Freisz starting at QB, Reggie Brooks at RB and Desmond Howard as our #1 WR. Thank goodness for Henry Ellard. We had literally no one else of consequence on that offense at all.

On defense, we basically had Ken Harvey, 34 year-old Darrell Green and ... that's it. That team was AWFUL. Reggie Roby was a hell of a punter though. I remember my friends would joke that year that our battle cry that year was 'at least we have good special teams!' :) We did have good special teams. But man, that was the first year of a full and complete and utter rebuild. That team was terrible.

That said, I'm not going to say Turner was better than Gruden or whatever. Different times, different front office structures. The salary cap was brand new back then and Casserly didn't know what the hell he was doing, but at least we had stability at the top. The front office nowadays is a mess. Ok, maybe this year is the first year it won't be a mess, but we're still feeling the effects of the messiness.

Ok so I'm rambling. I have no dog in this fight. Just had to point out the 94 Redskins were truly awful, and not just because of Turner.

Carry on.
 
I'm with Henry on this one. Remember, that was the team that went 3-13 the year before and got Petibon fired after just one year as HC. To this day I still believe Gibbs left when he did because he saw the handwriting on the wall and didn't have the energy to work through the rebuild that he could see coming.
 
tr1 said:
EDIT AGAIN: And, does anyone remember Trent Green...the guy who held onto the ball too long?
Click to expand...

That headbutt to the wall injured Gus' neck and knocked him out for the rest of the season. The team finished 8-7-1 behind 36 year old Jeff Hostetler, missing the playoffs again.

Norv was pissed and Frerotte was embarrassed. The following year, journeyman Trent Green was given his first shot as a starting QB in the NFL and Frerotte was given a spot on the bench to keep warm. It was a mistake. Green held onto the ball far too long and ended up getting sacked 49 times in 15 games. The offense remained adequate, but it was obvious that they weren't operating as well as they should or as well as they had with Gus. The defense slid back as well under the increased pressure and the team finished 6-10.
Click to expand...

Wait. I'm sorry, who the hell wrote that nonsense? Benching Frerotte for Green was a mistake? Are you kidding?

Trent Green was SO much better than Gus it's not even funny. Seriously, who wrote that?
 
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