McNabb-o-meter

[Boone]

Maybe Mike Shanahan was trying to get a message to his entrenched starter, play like a rookie and you'll sit like one. Maybe he gave in to anger and made a selfish petulant decision. Maybe McNabb will come back after the bye on fire. Or maybe he'll pout his way to a more permanent place on the bench.

What say you?

Will the benching of McNabb at the end of the Lion's debacle have a net negative or positive impact on the Redskins on the field fortune's the rest of the way?

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

I voted "no effect."

But I like the way Shanahan is handling this team. It's perfectly clear there will be no bull**** (Albert), and that if you put up Jason Campbell numbers (Donovan), you go the way of JC.

There should be no sense of entitlement on this team, no matter who you are. And Shanny is getting that across.

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

I voted bad. Grossman was horrible in Chicago and he never really even played in Houston so what makes him the best solution? Some bull**** excuse Shan uses so he can act like it wasnt just a dick move? Not buying it..and on top of how far he pushed with the haynesworth situation he might want to calm his ego down a bit.

Tom Coughlin disagrees.

Sure, not everyone likes that management style. And I respect the difference of opinion. But personally, I'm enjoying having some damned discipline (look at Landry) and knowing who's in charge for once.

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

Who said "good?" Not being sarcastic, I'd like to hear the explanation on that one. I probably largely agree.

 

[Henry]

No effect. The media loves this stuff but I don't think it matters that much.
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[Elephant]

yeah, cant be that they put landry back at SS and asked him to hit instead of cover.

and do you remember how big the revolt was against Coughlin? Strahan wasnt going to come back, Barber was basically crying constantly and everyone was saying he was out of line.

Not trying to pile on Mike because I agree that it was a BS excuse, but Coughlin weathered the uprising and won a SB that year.

As for this issue. From the looks of things, McNabb would be a fool to want to sign an extension here. I hope I am wrong but...2rd Pick...good bye!

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

yeah, cant be that they put landry back at SS and asked him to hit instead of cover.

and do you remember how big the revolt was against Coughlin? Strahan wasnt going to come back, Barber was basically crying constantly and everyone was saying he was out of line.

Yes. I do remember. And I also remember them beating the only 16-0 team in league history to win the Super Bowl.

You want to bitch and whine because coach makes you be on time, you can kiss my ass. We all do it everyday for a helluva lot less.

And playing strong made Landry suddenly remember how to tackle, how to play disciplined and not always go for the knockout, and how not to take bad angles? He's playing more disciplined and that can't be argued I don't think. Sure, he's better back at his natural position. Most guys are. But he's a different player this year physically.

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

it could have gone either way with Tom. They could have folded up just as easily as turn it all around. We are in the same boat but he already has a track record of singling players out and embarrassing them. you think that if, lets say, santana sees that Shan has not only called out and trashed Haynesworth but now he has done it to a guy who is a hard worker, a proven leader AND a good man what makes him think it wont happen to him too?

Personally if I see the trend happening and people around me are getting dogged out then maybe, just maybe, it isnt the players but the coach.

AND DONT PILE ON!!

The solution is real simple. Want to keep your butt off the bench? Produce. Don't be ranked three slots BEHIND Jason Campbell in terms of QB rating. Don't throw more INTs than TDs; something Campbell has NEVER done in a season. Play. Produce. Win. Do that, and you stay on the field. It really is that simple.

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

notice that kareem moore is now pretty much doing everything wrong that Landry did last year? He has horrible angles, misses totally and is out of position all the time. I think the "playing more disciplined" can be attributed to his comfort level too. Hes a SS, always been a SS and is best at it. When he is comfortable just like any of us he is going to play better.

Maybe so. Doughty is phenomenal as a strong, so there might be something to that.

Still, I see something entirely different in Landry this year. You'd think being at the line, he'd have more chances to go for knockouts. He doesn't. He wraps up and drags down. He's been very solid on the blitz too, and when he is asked to cover, he does it aggressively, but smartly. I really think the kid has gotten a message from someone (maybe Fletcher) but he seems to me to be playing within himself a lot more this year.

And that's more a compliment to him, than an argument against your post. As I've said before, I was ready to CUT Landry last year. This year, at worst, he's the third best player on the team; and deserves a trip to Hawaii. I think he's taken an extra year or so to do what ST did. Grow up, stop caring about making "Jacked Up" and help your team.

Frankly I don't care which of us is right. But I'm glad it's happened.

 

[Boone]

You guys are throwing red herrings .... McNabb isn't playing well. But he's not Jason Campbell who's never done one damn thing of significance in his NFL career. Shanahan may be fiery and over-react (as I suspect he did here), but he's hardly Tom Coughlin, or Adolf Hitler either for that matter.

The question was whether the benching, agree with it or not, will help, hurt, or have zero impact on the Redskin's season?

 

[Goaldeje]

I too will agree that though I disagree with Shanahan in this instance, but I am pretty sure he is not Hitler.
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[Jugband McGillicuddy]

You guys are throwing red herrings .... McNabb isn't playing well. But he's not Jason Campbell who's never done one damn thing of significance in his NFL career. Shanahan may be fiery and over-react (as I suspect he did here), but he's hardly Tom Coughlin, or Adolf Hitler either for that matter.

The question was whether the benching, agree with it or not, will help, hurt, or have zero impact on the Redskin's season?

Sorry, B. I'm just frustrated. You'd think I'd learn my dang lesson and just stop having hope because of "x" player or "y" coach. I'm fed up with it never panning out. I expected significant improvement at the QB position this year, and maybe I was unrealistic. But it hasn't happened. Anyway, I didn't intend to hijack; and I apologize.

Getting back to the topic, if McNabb is the professional I think he is, this is a non-issue. Is he frustrated? I'm sure he is. Will he channel that frustration into something positive, or at least not become a distraction? I'd lay money on it. But there was another guy who was pretty good at that too....lol. OK, I'm done now.

 

[Boone]

I don't mind the discussion - I just hate that we immediately jump to extreme examples...I don't think those are 'like' comparisons....

I'm really frustrated this season - not because I had unrealistic hopes - I get that this is a first year coaching staff who inherited what they inherited. I also get that McNabb is coming into this never having had to learn another offense or adjust to anything like the change he's living through right now. In a measured, reasonable world (as many have said), we're probably exceeding expectations. However, in my world, we've blown several games that barring epic collapses with 17 point leads, and playing down horribly to the opposition, we could have easily won.

I'm like a heroin addict. I really think this team could've made the playoffs this season. Even with a swiss cheese offensive line, and some other holes, we have enough talent to take advantage of a weakened NFC. But we've squandered opportunities. That it's MCNABB who is leading the way in mediocre performances - that is just maddening to me. You have more faith in McNabb than I ever have.

Watching him in Philly all those years, although he certainly sowed plenty of misery for Redskins fans, he always seemed to me to lack the fire of other top tier QBs. I've yet to see him doing anything on the sidelines during some of these challenging critical moments that looked anything like leadership. Maybe that's harsh, I don't know. But I have just not been very impressed with hiim.

 

[servumtuum]

Hey, Boone, isn't it fun trying to get a thread back on track when it veers off course?

On the topic at hand, I haven't voted because I'm not really sure what the effect might be. IMHO, Shanny made a bad, emotion-driven, shoot-from-the-hip decision that may cause some otherwise unnecessary complications vis-a-vis the coach/QB/locker room dynamic. The timing of the move in the game was what tends to make me believe it was an act of anger as opposed to a tactical game management move. It made no sense in terms of increasing the probability of putting the team in a position of possibly pulling out a win. I was puzzling over what might have made him think that putting Grossman in might have accomplished that-thus my inclination toward viewing it as an emotional reaction rather than a decision with some thought behind it.

 

[Boone]

I agree. He made the move out of frustration. Not only did he commit the sin of impulsive decision-making, he may have cost the Redskins a chance to pull it out, even if they didn't deserve a win. If it turns out to somehow motivate McNabb, it'll only be luck that it does so.

None of us know what's going on here - but it seems like a smarter approach if you're really pissed at your starter is to pull him after the game, let him know he's not getting it done, that you expect a lot more, and that he'd better show you the reason you brought him here after the bye week. Put some serious pressure on him that way, vs. embarrassing him to satisfy your anger during the game.

I can't see there was much thought put into the decision.

And the spin-job that Shanahan is currently trying to sell would make Bill Clinton proud.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

At 4-4, I'm not sure why some of us are in such a panic mode. How quickly we forget last year and the absolute misery that it brought to Redskins fans. I'm not saying we should be excited about a .500 season at the bye, just encouraged and hopeful for the future.

I put a vote in for the good, but also think this is media hype to a small degree. Donovan is a pro who knows what it will take to succeed with this team. Let's take a deep breath and take what will be a rebuilding year in perspective. In time, we'll come to appreciate what is happening this season and realize its importance for the future of the Redskins organization.

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

I can't see there was much thought put into the decision.

And the spin-job that Shanahan is currently trying to sell would make Bill Clinton proud.

Again, 17/30. 210. 1 gawdawful pick. 1 td.

The offensive line was garbage. I fully admit that. But if you want to be the guy. Be the guy.

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

Let's take a deep breath and take what will be a rebuilding year in perspective. In time, we'll come to appreciate what is happening this season and realize its importance for the future of the Redskins organization.

Of course. I thought we'd be 7-9 this year. We're on pace for a game better than that. But I, like I suspect many of you, got caught up in beating Dallas, GB and Philly; and playing right with Houston and Indy. Expectations are not a stagnant thing, unfortuantely. And I probably raised them (actually I know I did) after the way DMac played against the Texans. I chose to believe that that's who he was as a QB, and it's simply not.

He's average with his accuracy at this point in his career, and that may be a little kind. He's still a playmaker, and repeatedly has made something of nothing with his legs. He's a leader. He says and does the right things. But what he is NOT, is a top-tier QB. This season, he's not even in that second tier as a passer, but probably is if you count the intangibles.

I'm really beginning to believe that this is a one-year experiment. And Sunday certainly didn't help convince McNabb to stay here. But at this point, I'm not as concerned about that as I was not too long ago. We could bring in Sage Rosenfels and get the passer numbers we're getting now.

The only problem I see is that if we draft a QB, it'll take two or three years for him to mature into anything, no matter how good he is. And by then, the oldest team in football is just that much older.

I really wish I could quit my Skins addiction sometimes, but y'all call it an obsession for a reason.

 

[Boone]

Just to be clear HH - it's not a question of whether McNabb deserved to be benched. He was a lot worse yesterday than those numbers indicate. It's a question of whether it made any productive sense to do it. I don't think it did.

I'll explain it this way. I've known a lot of parents who claimed they only spanked their kids to discipline them. But the only time I've ever seen a parent do it (or done it myself) is when they've clearly lost their cool.

Doing it because you lost your cool is a mistake. And it cost us a chance to at least have a shot at a win.

 

[Jugband McGillicuddy]

Just to be clear HH - it's not a question of whether McNabb deserved to be benched. He was a lot worse yesterday than those numbers indicate. It's a question of whether it made any productive sense to do it. I don't think it did.

I'll explain it this way. I've known a lot of parents who claimed they only spanked their kids to discipline them. But the only time I've ever seen a parent do it (or done it myself) is when they've clearly lost their cool.

Doing it because you lost your cool is a mistake. And it cost us a chance to at least have a shot at a win.

I'm slow on the uptake tonight, apparently. Good analogy.

I'd ask you this though. Can you say with certainty that Shanny pulled McNabb because he was angry, and not because he really thought Grossman could provide a spark/better chance to win?

If you answer yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Completely. If you're not sure, then we're back where we started -- you say he was angry, I said he was looking for a spark.

Regardless, my vote for "no change" stands. McNabb's a pro. I don't think this changes his approach much at all.