Luck vs. RGIII?

[Lanky Livingston]

Are you really saying that RG3 will not be successful because he is black? Am I on an Colts fan forum or a Redskins fan forum? That's what I kept reading on the Colts forum. Main reason why I don't want RG3 to join the Colts.

Please believe that Ryman is in the vast minority, and that the majority of us here at BGO do not have that opinion about RG3 at ALL.

 

[redskins76]

RG3NDC ...........................................................

 

[Yusuf06]

That is a line of discussion that we have pretty much put outlawed here, RG3_Fan. It just won't be tolerated.

Why? I don't think Ryman's idea about this is based on the idea of an inherent genetic disadvantage. Instead I think his ideas about Black QBs, gingers and lefties are based on a flawed "Well, it's never happened before" logic that nonetheless discounts a number of cases to the contrary. Personally I'm looking forward to throwing it back in his face when RG3 does well so I'm somewhat biased.

Definitely looking forward to Ryman's inevitable "Yeah, but" on this issue.

 

[Boone]

Honestly, I like that we have at least some contrarian viewpoint on Griffin and the price we paid for him. I lose a little respect for that position though when you thrown out there that Griffin could be the 'exception to the rule'. What you really mean is, if and when I'm proven dead wrong on the topic, I want to make sure I can deny I ever actually said he'll be a bust

Franchise quarterbacks are hard to reliably predict. We get it. That bears zero weight in terms of determining whether Griffin is going to be a star or not.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Honestly, I like that we have at least some contrarian viewpoint on Griffin and the price we paid for him. I lose a little respect for that position though when you thrown out there that Griffin could be the 'exception to the rule'. What you really mean is, if and when I'm proven dead wrong on the topic, I want to make sure I can deny I ever actually said he'll be a bust

Franchise quarterbacks are hard to reliably predict. We get it. That bears zero weight in terms of determining whether Griffin is going to be a star or not.

truth be told, I think he is going to bust for all the reasons I have given, I have said that openly and stated my reasons, does that mean I am cheering for him to bust? HELL NO, and if he doesnt bust I will be the first to admit I was wrong, I am hopeful that he will be the exception to a lot of rules, if he starts off playing very well ala Newton I will cheer like crazy for him. if he leads us back to prominence with superior play I will be his biggest fan, there is no ulterior motive here or hidden agenda I just don't see it happening.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Are you really saying that RG3 will not be successful because he is black? Am I on an Colts fan forum or a Redskins fan forum? That's what I kept reading on the Colts forum. Main reason why I don't want RG3 to join the Colts.

Nope, read what I wrote, like I have said all along, I believe when you are making a pick at the top of the draft where millions of dollars are at stake, you compile data, and nothing is left unturned, you take minutiae and you compile relevant data and based on all the data you make the best pick possible, part of that is statistical precedent based on everything you can collate, part of that is film and interviews, everything period. and before anyone gets in an uproar, my favourite Offencive player all time is Warren Moon but I wouldnt have drafted him, he didnt come on until after he came here to canada and got some serious reps. my favourite Defencive player is a tie between Dave Butz and Reggie White. Ray nitchzke only through Film on NFL films presents lol.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Why? I don't think Ryman's idea about this is based on the idea of an inherent genetic disadvantage. Instead I think his ideas about Black QBs, gingers and lefties are based on a flawed "Well, it's never happened before" logic that nonetheless discounts a number of cases to the contrary. Personally I'm looking forward to throwing it back in his face when RG3 does well so I'm somewhat biased.

Definitely looking forward to Ryman's inevitable "Yeah, but" on this issue.

as per our previous discussion, if I am wrong I will take the teasing like a man, after all I will be in good spirits because it will mean we are winning again. its all about Odds to me, something I think people miss when they see the surface of the post. and Yusuf, if I am wrong on this, I will be the first to admit it.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Btw, does anyone know if the skins ever did hire more scouts? they no longer have one In Calgary or Edmonton, I made a thread a while back, I dont know why with all the money we have thrown away, we dont take some and spend it on updating our scouting dept and personelle, we should have the best player dept in the league by far. no excuses.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Ryman, simple question - how do you reconcile your opinion that RG3 will bust with his absoutely phenomenal measureables, his incredible accuracy and his obvious smarts? I know you say the big 12 defenses were horrible, but wouldn't that be more of an indictment for a guy like Brandon Weeden who had a dominant WR and not-so-great measurables?

At some point don't you just look and say "This guy is a FOOTBALL player!" - or maybe you just want him to fail, because we gave up so much to get him? Is it possible that you're angry we gave up so many draft picks, and you want RG3 to fail so you can say "I told you so?" Just curious.

All your reasons are fine; weak big 12 defenses, no big 12 QB precedent, race, favorite movie, favorite color, his opinions on Obamacare, whatever - but at what point do you ignore all that and look at all the trees and finally see the forest?

Griffin is smart - his interviews show this, and his football acumen (displayed with Mooch in this video) is incredible. He's talented - you can't watch any of his film and not think this; if you do you're simply narcissistic and want the Skins to fail and you want RG3 to fail.

I just hope you can enjoy it when he doesn't.

 

[Bulldog]

My honest, unvarnished thought on the issue:

1. Irsay was looking at Luck first as Luck has been out there for 2 years as the potential top pick. When RGIII came along in 2012 to steal some of the spotlight the consideration by the Colts was that not only was Luck more experienced but the fact he was white would play better in Indiana.

2. There is no doubt in my mind that Snyder and the Redskins front office believe that RGIII, being African-American, will energize an important segment of the team's fanbase here in the DC area more than Luck would have.

For that reason the Colts will select Luck and the Redskins will then be more than happy to select Griffin.

The bottom line is that because both players have great ability, there really is no obvious win/lose here.

 

[Jimbo]

I came across this article a few days ago and it made me think of Boone's referral to RG3 as a savior for the Skins. Heck, some think he could be a savior for the NFL.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-bruno/robert-griffin-iii-redskins_b_1336229.html

The NFL needs a role model. Preferably someone as yet untainted by the sordid topic of coin. Preferably someone wholesome. Preferably someone with a great smile, a quick wit and a sharp mind. And preferably someone with outstanding athletic gifts. Let's face it; the NFL needs Michael Vick's talent combined with Tim Tebow's character.

Enter Robert Griffin III. Though I haven't found evidence of Eagle Scout status, Griffin may have been too busy starring in three sports and graduating from Copperas Cove High School a semester early so that he could get a jump on completing a Bachelors in Political Science in three years at Baylor University -- while winning the Heisman Trophy and starting his Masters in Communications.

 

[Neophyte]

This is what I call "all in".

 

[Om]

Oh, I don't know.

THIS is all in:

Is this a great country or what?

 

[Elephant]

Oh, I don't know.

THIS is all in:


Is this a great country or what?

I would bet the house that is a Florida Gators fan. They're not too bright down in Gainesville!

Right McD5?

 

[China]

This is what I call "all in".

I saw one a couple of days ago that said "RG3SKNS"

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Lanky, I have been asked not to discuss certain aspects behind my reasoning, as I respect the decisions of the people who created my favourite place to talk about football, I will say this and no more, I took a LOT of things into consideration, I think that Griffin will have some huge obstacles to overcome and perhaps more pressure to BE THE MAN than any qb in recent memory the proce we paid, the market he will be in all equal some serious weight.

 

[RG3 Fan]

RG3 has big shoulders

Lanky, I have been asked not to discuss certain aspects behind my reasoning, as I respect the decisions of the people who created my favourite place to talk about football, I will say this and no more, I took a LOT of things into consideration, I think that Griffin will have some huge obstacles to overcome and perhaps more pressure to BE THE MAN than any qb in recent memory the proce we paid, the market he will be in all equal some serious weight.

Ryman - I will not argue with you that Luck is better than RG3 for the NFL. He may be, but he also may not. I have watched RG3 personally numerous times in game situations. The progress that he has made each of the three years that he played for Baylor is unprecedented. As great as I think he is at this point, he will still be a rookie. I hope Washington Redskin fans will give him some rope as he adjusts to the NFL. Payton Manning and Troy Aikman had a bad couple of years before they became the "franchise QB". I am getting to be an old man and I have seen a lot of players. I have never seen anyone quite like RG3. He now makes tremendous judgement on the fly, he has a knack to adjust his position under pressure to make the throw, his accuracy now is uncanny and I really don't believe there is anyone now or ever who can throw the long ball more accurately than him. He is a little quirky, but his leadership skills and charisma are also off the charts. Please make sure that he has enough rope at the beginning not to hang himself.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Lanky, I have been asked not to discuss certain aspects behind my reasoning, as I respect the decisions of the people who created my favourite place to talk about football, I will say this and no more, I took a LOT of things into consideration, I think that Griffin will have some huge obstacles to overcome and perhaps more pressure to BE THE MAN than any qb in recent memory the proce we paid, the market he will be in all equal some serious weight.

I wasn't asking about that.

 

[Om]

Ryman - I will not argue with you that Luck is better than RG3 for the NFL. He may be, but he also may not. I have watched RG3 personally numerous times in game situations. The progress that he has made each of the three years that he played for Baylor is unprecedented. As great as I think he is at this point, he will still be a rookie. I hope Washington Redskin fans will give him some rope as he adjusts to the NFL. Payton Manning and Troy Aikman had a bad couple of years before they became the "franchise QB". I am getting to be an old man and I have seen a lot of players. I have never seen anyone quite like RG3. He now makes tremendous judgement on the fly, he has a knack to adjust his position under pressure to make the throw, his accuracy now is uncanny and I really don't believe there is anyone now or ever who can throw the long ball more accurately than him. He is a little quirky, but his leadership skills and charisma are also off the charts. Please make sure that he has enough rope at the beginning not to hang himself.

You know there will be some who criticize even the first hint of rookie-ness, brother. The web culture has made it easy for anyone with a computer to play "expert" and pronounce judgement with little or no objective substance to back it.

What I can assure you, though, is that the vast majority of fans of the Washington Redskins are so starved for competent quarterback play that they will give a talent like RG3 plenty of time to climb the mountain.

Remember, 5% of the people make 90% of the noise. Don't let them fool you into thinking it's the reverse.

 

[TomE]

Remember, 5% of the people make 90% of the noise. Don't let them fool you into thinking it's the reverse.

Amen brother!