Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

[MikeSr619]

Cousins fault for all those sacks?

Please stop quoting me when all you're doing is trying to start an argument. I just posted a stat and you're posting to cause an argument.

I never said fault or not. I said he was sacked 5 times.

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[Elephant]

Please stop quoting me when all you're doing is trying to start an argument. I just posted a stat and you're posting to cause an argument.

I never said fault or not. I said he was sacked 5 times.

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No Mike, I am questioning your placement of that statistic in a Kirk Cousins Development thread...why? Seems to me this is more along the lines of Tracking the Trenches thread, or Random Redskins Thought, but you posted it here...why? Is one to take that as a development in Cousins play?

 

[MikeSr619]

No Mike, I am questioning your placement of that statistic in a Kirk Cousins Development thread...why? Seems to me this is more along the lines of Tracking the Trenches thread, or Random Redskins thought, but you posted it here...why? Is one to take that as a development in Cousins play?

KIRK COUSINS was sacked 5 times today.

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[Elephant]

KIRK COUSINS was sacked 5 times today.

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Yeah...we get that...but why post a stat in this thread? Are you suggesting it was Cousins' fault for those sacks? Just trying to get to your reasoning for posting here. Do you blame Kirk?

 

[MikeSr619]

Yeah...we get that...but why post a stat in this thread? Are you suggesting it was Cousins' fault for those sacks? Just trying to get to your reasoning for posting here. Do you blame Kirk?

I posted it because it's a stat listed under kirk cousins. After that, you can do whatever you want.

Kirk Cousins was sacked 5 times today.

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[fansince62]

It's the line. He wasn't bailing on the pocket leaving his line in a lurch to protect him. Guys coming from behind or the blind side are not Kirks fault. They weren't caused by holding the ball too long. The run blocking is poor and they give up on the run as a result. Gruden or the OC is not good at scheming quick passes I associate the West Coast with to substitute the short game. This team is still talent poor. Gonna take several years. All this talk about competing for the division in a down year is unwarranted. We still aren't a good team. We have made improvement, and are playing better against weaker teams than we have, but we're still not a very good team and it shows.

so it's safe to conclude some on this board believe that Kirk is the guy - so long as everything else goes smoothly.

check.

not his fault when things go South. Sounds strangely familiar....though the pov held by some was different.

hmmm...the Captain of the ship is only accountable if the ship travels through halcyon seas and arrives at the appointed destination. otherwise...FAULT LIES WITH SHIP'S COMPANY! The Captain doesn't have to exercise leadership and find a way to accomplish the mission.

check.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Cousins, like the rest of the team, had a poor game today. The INT was 100% his fault, as Jackson was wide open in the middle of the field and Cousins airmailed it. And if he was throwing for Garcon and not Jackson then it's a very poor decision. As for the sacks, some were Cousins fault, but others were not. The line did not play well today. Cousins usually has better pocket awareness than what he had today. He had a poor game and he wasn't alone. Like his other poor games this year, let's see how he bounces back from this.

 

[stevenaa]

so it's safe to conclude some on this board believe that Kirk is the guy - so long as everything else goes smoothly.

check.

not his fault when things go South. Sounds strangely familiar....though the pov held by some was different.

hmmm...the Captain of the ship is only accountable if the ship travels through halcyon seas and arrives at the appointed destination. otherwise...FAULT LIES WITH SHIP'S COMPANY! The Captain doesn't have to exercise leadership and find a way to accomplish the mission.

check.

You can assume what you want and be as snarky as you like. Why don't you say what you want directly instead of dancing around with innuendo. Griffin had problems in the pocket that went far beyond poor O-Line play. There's simply no comparison to the two in pocket awareness. That's not to say Kirk is the guy, or will become the guy. Nor does it exonerate him from his mistakes. But that doesn't mean that poor Oline play isn't a factor, just as it was with Griffin. I'm not sure if you're referring to Kirk or Jay as the Captain. If it's Jay, I'm starting to get on board with that. He has made some improvements, but he fails to have the team prepared against better teams. His scheme is also lacking when a facet of the game is struggling. The line is not run blocking well at all. Where are the short, quick, West Coast plays that sub in for runs. Kirk is good at quick release plays. Jay is not capitalizing on that with creative scheming.

 

[McD5]

To be fair McD, you need to add in his rushing numbers to paint the full picture...

Yeah, definitely not a full breakdown. Also doesn't take into account opponents, etc.

Just interesting how close the two have played prior to today.

 

[fansince62]

You can assume what you want and be as snarky as you like. Why don't you say what you want directly instead of dancing around with innuendo. Griffin had problems in the pocket that went far beyond poor O-Line play. There's simply no comparison to the two in pocket awareness. That's not to say Kirk is the guy, or will become the guy. Nor does it exonerate him from his mistakes. But that doesn't mean that poor Oline play isn't a factor, just as it was with Griffin. I'm not sure if you're referring to Kirk or Jay as the Captain. If it's Jay, I'm starting to get on board with that. He has made some improvements, but he fails to have the team prepared against better teams. His scheme is also lacking when a facet of the game is struggling. The line is not run blocking well at all. Where are the short, quick, West Coast plays that sub in for runs. Kirk is good at quick release plays. Jay is not capitalizing on that with creative scheming.

no...I do believe you know what I am really probing at.

pretty clear what my line of thought happens to be: it's not directed at the players but the inconsistent evaluation criteria applied. double standards are well.....just that.

btw....comparing Cousins to Griffin in terms of pocket presence is rather like comparing ok to bad. Cousins is focused on getting the ball out of his hands. great. what about the rest that goes with being a QB? like reading the field when a play breaks down? like taking control of the offense when it is sputtering? like improvising? like leading your team to victory against a good team? like keeping the turn-overs to a minimum?

Cousins seems to be getting a pass because he's not Griffen. not how I look at things. Cousins is a fourth year pro. did he or did he not learn anything all those years? he clearly shouldn't be treated as a rookie. I get how playing up Cousins taps into other agendas - most of which I don't really care about. I do care about seeing things clearly and honestly. we're stuck without options for the moment. like others...I actually hope he demonstrates that he's "the one".

as for Captain - that was a metaphor for the QB. that individual, at the end of the day, is accountable. that individual leads when the planned path is no longer viable. he figures out a way and gets the others to do what is needed. he certainly doesn't worsen the situation. just as others grew weary of all the rationalizing vis Griffen - the same holds for Cousins.

I have no animus toward Cousins...if he rises to the challenge that's wonderful and saves this team a lot of discovery work. most of my issues are with Gruden. but I'm not going to ignore what I see and extrapolate to conclusions that aren't warranted.

I'm not invested emotionally one way or the other in all of this: same state of mind this week as last week. Cousins has strengths and weaknesses that have been consistently displayed going back several years. I'm not ignoring either category.

 

[stevenaa]

Not sure what you mean by playing up Cousins taps into other agendas. Again, please say what you mean instead of using circuitous innuendo. What agendas? I know what mine is. A team that can compete and not be an embarrassment. Cousins is a 4 year pro, with barely a years worth of starts, nearly half of which were spread out over 3 years time. He has shown some promise. He's at the very least a decent stop gap for another year or two, as there doesn't seem to be anyone else in the wings or on the radar that will be a long term solution. No ones ignoring any of the items you list. Some of us believe it actually takes playing the game at NFL game speed to get proficient at it. He has improved in some of those areas, but even as captain, those things are not going to overcome the glaring problems born of decades of mismanagement. He may well be all he's ever going to be. When he stops making any progress, the question will be answered. Until then, you'll just have to forgive me if I'm blinded by my deepest desire to have long term QB. It will be that reason for which I may not be as impartial at times as I should be. Not because he's not Robert Griffin.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

so when cousins gets sacked its bad oline but when griffin gets sacked its all his fault? hmmmm

 

[Knightingale]

Phew!

I only really glanced through this thread as it's gone bonkers since yesterdays game LOL

Just to push in my tuppenth worth...

It was a bad loss to a good team. They did to us what we did to New Orleans. Many of us said that that's what we were supposed to to, give em a whuppin. Well we were ranked 20th coming into this game against the number 2 team. They were supposed to whup us and that's what happened.

Last weeks game just made us start thinking about the possibility of giving them a fight, and we did for a few minutes.

The most glaring two things I spotted yesterday was the number of penalties, turnovers and the death of our running game. Did Kirk play his best? Nope. But I don't think he was the most glaring reason for loss yesterday. The interception was a pretty bad one, it was an awful decision, he should have thrown the ball away or taken the sack at that point but to force it like that was not great. But all QB's have interceptions and to be fair to him it didn't turn out to be a binge job as he has a reputation for.

Our O-Line looked awful. But as I've said before this is a new O-Line with rookies on it. Some days we've looked great. Others we've looked like just what we are, a newly constructed O-Line with some rookies and a lack of talent at the Centre spot. I still feel Callahan will whip them into shape over time and it'll be a strength of this team for years to come, especially if we can replace McRib with someone decent. Also... Spencer Long..... ooof. He had a bad day I thought.

The fumbles... Well the one came when he was in the process of throwing and he was blindsided. There was nothing you could do about that. Ball was in one hand and already in motion. I'd put that one on his line not protecting him. The second one though...

TBF I don't think he had a truly awful game. We've seen worse stinkers from him than that. We were just outclassed as a team and it showed across the board. 4 fumbles and 1 interception and we just couldn't stay on the field. So our Defense was on the field for almost 40 mins, they got tired, we were forced to press the ball and from that point we were done. We just looked like the flip side of the Saints game the week before. That week the whole team operated at a hugely efficient level, this week I truly couldn't point at any part of the team (or coaching) where I thought... we did that well! We're inconsistent and that needs to change and will just take time.

I'm not gonna knee jerk react to this game. We'd had a run of good lately and we were due a dip. I'm more interested in next weeks game to see where Kirk is.

 

[stevenaa]

Sorry, but this sounds like a pretty poor excuse.

Allen has been here almost half a decade. His acquisition was the 'beginning' of getting the Danny out of the football gm business. With the exception of what appears to be a fluke year in 2012, Allen's tenure has been a failure. He was on board with Shanny's hiring, Gruden's hiring and now McL's hiring.

Our wheels are spinning again, gentlemen. The only thing that's changed are the faces on the field. The o-line is NOT improving. I think Trent's accumulation of injuries over the years is catching up to him. Without Kirk's quick release, we're pretty bad. And, look what's happened to the run game. Meantime, in Atlanta, Hankerson is looking like an all pro, and Kyle looks like a genius.

Most teams score a touchdown or two on Sundays, including us. That doesn't mean we're improving.

We're half way through year one of a rebuild being crafted by a new GM. Allen is a figurehead and nothing else IMO. You can't let the frustration of past failures make you impatient for a quick success. It isn't going to happen fast and there will be struggles. Who gives a crap about Hankerson and Kyle? They aren't on this team. McL had nothing to do with them. That's just living in the past. There is new talent coming in. Kirk has improved quite a bit. The failure we're seeing on the road is at the team level. To me, this bubbles up to Gruden. He's responsible for having the team prepared and scheming his offense around it's weaknesses and the opposing teams strengths. I see no creativity in the game plan.

 

[Smoot Point]

It was a bad game... No reason to blow this game out of proportion, just like there was no reason to exaggerate last week's result. He performed about like I would expect on the road, against a solid defense. Nice pass to Desean Jackson, but that's a pass 50 out of 50 NFL Quarterback's should make. It would've been unforgivable if he blew that one. Cousins doesn't have a prayer if we don't run well... And Jay Gruden didn't help him out at all. The run game was non-existent and unimaginative. Nothing really encouraging from this game, except Andre Roberts. Cousins has to win & look good the next 2 games... Both are home games, but NYG are up first. Kirk has to reverse trend here and look competent against this particular division rival. Cowboys are as important, but it matters less if we lose next week.

 

[fansince62]

Not sure what you mean by playing up Cousins taps into other agendas. Again, please say what you mean instead of using circuitous innuendo. What agendas? I know what mine is. A team that can compete and not be an embarrassment. Cousins is a 4 year pro, with barely a years worth of starts, nearly half of which were spread out over 3 years time. He has shown some promise. He's at the very least a decent stop gap for another year or two, as there doesn't seem to be anyone else in the wings or on the radar that will be a long term solution. No ones ignoring any of the items you list. Some of us believe it actually takes playing the game at NFL game speed to get proficient at it. He has improved in some of those areas, but even as captain, those things are not going to overcome the glaring problems born of decades of mismanagement. He may well be all he's ever going to be. When he stops making any progress, the question will be answered. Until then, you'll just have to forgive me if I'm blinded by my deepest desire to have long term QB. It will be that reason for which I may not be as impartial at times as I should be. Not because he's not Robert Griffin.

well, then, there is a problem. most folks argue that QBs should sit and learn before being thrown into the fray. Cousins certainly qualifies in that regard. Just what standard of measurement is in play here? Obviously, I don't buy into the "he's basically a rookie" line of rationalizing. Where is the bar set for what folks believe Cousins learned during these four years? Everyone is free to establish their own baseline. I clearly don't fall into the group that parses events based on a constantly changing standard for accountability.

A team that can compete and not embarrass itself is not an agenda. that's a generalized performance expectation. If you wish to discuss agendas, I'd be more than happy to do so through the medium of PMs.

"Not because he's not Robert Griffen." Now there's an agenda my friend! And a faulty assumption to boot! you have a perfect QB rating thus far!

 

[Henry]

Yeah, definitely not a full breakdown. Also doesn't take into account opponents, etc.

Just interesting how close the two have played prior to today.

They haven't played close in any way.

Newton's passing numbers are what they are because his team is a run-first team that plays strong defense. They run the ball all day and use that to set up long passes (and Newton's running is an integral part of that). This is why Newton's completion percentage is so low. The Redskins, on the other hand, never run the ball. And when they do they are terrible at it. Cousins had thrown 65 more passes than Newton before yesterday. He has had far more opportunities to make plays through the air, and yet he doesn't. On top of that, in short yardage situations we throw for TDs. Most of Cousins' TDs are shorter than 10 yards. From those distances, Newton runs for TDs. You can't ignore his 6 rushing TDs and suggest his numbers are comparable. And it's also why ignoring Newton's rushing stats makes the comparison completely meaningless.

 

[Knightingale]

I think our big mistake on QB's was back in 2012 and then we compounded it in later years to the point where we are now finally starting to dig our way out again.

Basically we drafted 2 brand spanking new QB's and had no one to really teach them anything. And basically they had Sexy Rex to learn from. And as QB coach they had Matt LaFleur who I know never played in the NFL and I've no idea if he's a good QB coach or not.

So basically they threw RGIII into the starting role in an offense tailor made for him, which was great but it stunted his growth. And behind him Cousins sat learning an offence which wasn't to his style with Matt and Rex being his mentors? It's not exactly Rodgers studying under Favre is it.

More of the same in 2013, but by this point Shanaclan was off out the door and really probably for the latter half of the season had no vested interest in developing any of the QB's at that point once the ship was sinking.

2014 brought McCoy to the fold and Gruden. But Gruden didn't bring in a QB coach and tried to split time teaching our young QB's while doing his headcoaching job, which was a mistake. Now for the first time in Kirks career (and count me as one who still thinks that while he's not a rookie, his game experience is lacking) we have an experienced QB coach in Matt Cavanaugh. Now he may not have been a world class QB in his day, but he did play for 13 years or so int he NFL and he backed up Joe Montana and Jeff Hostetler
He's also been in a multitude of coaching roles including being a QB coach since 2008.

I think the improvement we're seeing this year with Kirk is directly because he finally has a teacher worth his salt.

 

[Boone]

It was a bad game... No reason to blow this game out of proportion, just like there was no reason to exaggerate last week's result. He performed about like I would expect on the road, against a solid defense. Nice pass to Desean Jackson, but that's a pass 50 out of 50 NFL Quarterback's should make. It would've been unforgivable if he blew that one. Cousins doesn't have a prayer if we don't run well... And Jay Gruden didn't help him out at all. The run game was non-existent and unimaginative. Nothing really encouraging from this game, except Andre Roberts. Cousins has to win & look good the next 2 games... Both are home games, but NYG are up first. Kirk has to reverse trend here and look competent against this particular division rival. Cowboys are as important, but it matters less if we lose next week.

Pretty dead on assessment. I think there are two things almost every QB needs to perform well - some threat of a run game and some modicum of protection. Cousins had neither yesterday and played his own bad game on top of all that.


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[stevenaa]

well, then, there is a problem. most folks argue that QBs should sit and learn before being thrown into the fray. Cousins certainly qualifies in that regard. Just what standard of measurement is in play here? Obviously, I don't buy into the "he's basically a rookie" line of rationalizing. Where is the bar set for what folks believe Cousins learned during these four years? Everyone is free to establish their own baseline. I clearly don't fall into the group that parses events based on a constantly changing standard for accountability.

A team that can compete and not embarrass itself is not an agenda. that's a generalized performance expectation. If you wish to discuss agendas, I'd be more than happy to do so through the medium of PMs.

"Not because he's not Robert Griffen." Now there's an agenda my friend! And a faulty assumption to boot! you have a perfect QB rating thus far!

I'm not interested in PM only topics. There's been nothing I've seen that warrants it. If you can't discuss your thoughts in front of all, why bother mentioning them? Your last comment doesn't ring true at either. Your statement: "Cousins seems to be getting a pass because he's not Griffen" I merely clarified that your supposition does not apply to my analysis, or agenda, if you feel so inclined to apply a nebulous label.

As to a standard of measurement, I'm not sure there's a definitive answer. Is it one full years start? Two? For me, it's about continued growth in the context of what is happening around him. RG got dealt a crappy hand, and mostly worked behind an extremely crappy line and ultimately a coach whose confidence he quickly lost. Not very conducive to learning all he needed too. However, given all that, he simply failed to improve and show progress that 'looked' like he could get it figured out. That's my opinion based on what I saw on the field. There's no hidden agenda in that Al.