• Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.

Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

Kind of agree with Matty and Mike. My opinion on RGIII...

(And I’m aware some people will think I’m CRAZY! I’m not sure there’s a more divisive subject that RGIII. But I’m in the camp that wishes he’d had more of a chance to show something. I’m a firm believer in stability in a system and I never feel like he had that bar 2012. Anyhow…)

The O-Line was a disaster in the years he played under centre. Now I know that Cousins and McCoy took way way way less sacks, but they're also different types of QB's. RGIII started to just look skittish back int he pocket, I swear he was gunshy of just being trashed everytime he dropped back. So he was ALWAYS looking for the out. Never comfortable in the pocket because he'd been burnt so many times. His footwork was dreadful, but I think it was partly a lack of trust in the line and his flight reflex kicking in.

Which was hidden in 2012 because the scheme covered up his failings and opposition were terrified he'd break lose and run. It gave him time and comfort. 12 months later teams were wise to his limitations and started just hitting him hard. The O-line was in no condition to protect him and he was a disaster. Always wanted out of the pocket and wasn't fast enough on his damaged/braced leg to escape like he had in 2012.

Bad recipe.

I still wonder what he'd be like behind this new O-Line with some time to settle down. I think the Detroit pre-season game was a bit of an outlier, we've looked extremely solid in pass protection.

Would he be better than Capt CrunchTimeInterception? Dunno.

I don't think he'd particularly be worse. I think we'd still see more sacks but less interceptions. It is what it is.

My issue with the QB situation is that we know who McCoy is. We now who Cousins is. I still kinda feel like RGIII is a bit of an unknown to me. I doubt he can be 2012 RGIII. But I don't think hes truly as bad as 2013 and 2014 RGIII. I think he's somewhere in between, and with the investment we made in him I'd kinda have liked to find out.

But then maybe I'm just deluded! LOL It happens!
 
Agree knight.

Part of me is still curious what RG3 can do behind this improved OL. The Lions game was a complete disaster. No, Griffin didn't look good, but the OL was just getting blown off the ball at every snap. It wasn't just fans of RG3 trying to make excuses. Numerous national football guys were noticing how awful the OL play was in that game and that Griffin had no chance. There's a reason Willie Smith hasn't been on an NFL roster since, let alone in a starting lineup.

I agree with everyone that the 2012 version of Griffin is gone at this point. But honestly, the 2013 version wasn't terrible. Was basically a league average QB when you go back and look at the numbers. Yes, he had some bad games (Denver comes to mind), but it wasn't all bad. Last year, had it's moments, but was pretty bad overall. The funny thing is he gets killed for his performance against the Texans, yet that's basically what Cousins has done in our 2 wins. Griffin set the bar so high in 2012 that anything less than that is seen as a failure around here, right or wrong.

I do agree that we know what Kirk is at this point. Yes, he can win you some games here and there, but he's not going to do it by himself. He needs the running game and the defense to both play well for him to have a chance. That's the prime definition of a game manager. He's a nice backup to have, but you don't want him to start all 16 games. He'll have a nice career as a backup in this league, which isn't a bad thing.

And we all definitely know what McCoy is. Another nice backup type that can be useful for a fill-in game here and there, but not someone you want as a starter for the season.

And that takes us back to Griffin. We all hope for the 2012 version, which very well could be gone, but we want confirmation of that.
 
5 attempts over 30 yards? One 1 completed? Wow, that is a shocking and really bad stat. Teams know they don't have to worry about someone getting behind them because they won't be getting the ball.

I have said he was very inaccurate after 10 yards and it just shows in that stat.

That is a really good article because its all percents and true stats. Thanks for posting that.
 
Saw there's a chance of rain and 5-10mph wind on Sunday. It's hard enough to overcome the wind, but rain too? Hope the league moves the game.
 
Well, there was one drunken night on Bourbon Street where...
 
Could just as easily be titled "Jay Gruden's loyalty to a QB on the Redskins roster is costing Washington wins" Not like there's a glaringly better option. Griffin isn't seeing the field again with his current contract, and McCoy doesn't offer anymore promise of victory, IMO.

While I tend to agree, I found it odd that Robert was active last week. Gruden trying to motivate Cousins with the possibility of replacement ? I can't wait to see if Robert is active again, and how Cousins does looking over his shoulder if Robert is dressed. No way anybody can tell me that having Robert dressed doesn't effect Cousins, and Gruden, if that is his reasoning, is a blithering idiot.
 
Pete, Robert was active and dressed because we have so many injured players there weren't enough to field a full game-day roster without him.

I don't think Jay is playing head games with Kirk.
 
Agreed Om.

At this point RGIII in Washington is done I think. His salary is too high to keep him next year in competition with whoever we draft.

I think Cousins will get the rest of the starts this year unless he is truly horrendous. I wouldn't class him as horrendous this year as yet, yes there are the interceptions, but that is who he is and I think we've accepted that. And while we're still 'in' most games I think he stays behind centre. However I do believe he is gone next year, I think there's a team that'll offer money for him and we won't match it (sensibly!).

I'd be tempted to think McCoy will be gone too. I'm not sure I see the point in keeping him around apart from as someone to help out any potential draft picks or free agents we grab.

The scary thing here is... I kinda thought we'd turned a corner last off season and put in place some good pieces across the team... which we have.
But this year I think we're gonna have even more gaps to fill!

Now I'm not sure of the contract status on all these people, but (where possible or applicable) I truly think we're gonna lose/get rid of: Cousins, McCoy, Morris, Jackson, Garcon, Reed, Roberts, Grant, 'Stieger or LeRibius.

We still need help in the Secondary and at Safety. We REALLY need a good tough reliable TE. And another Impact player in the Linebacker corp.

AND I think there are positions we need to address depth wise, especially across the D-Line.

Where do we even start?! LOL
 
Anyone have any knowledge of how well Kirk handles slippery balls?

I have a feeling Jay is pretty confident in Kirk's ball-handling abilities... They are likely spending extra time with Kirk under center in a spread formation.
 
We have a lot more holes than folks want to acknowledge on this team. Our WR corps is no where near as strong as folks pretend. Garcon is a good, not great WR. Jackson is gone soon and on the downslope of his career. Roberts is a liability. Crowder is the only true future starter on this team at that position. Grant and Ross are, currently anyway, journeymen who I don't think are part of future plans (I'd like to see Ross prove me wrong but I don't think he's got the physical gifts to do so).
 
Well, this is a Kirk Cousins thread, so...


Kirk Cousins has found a way to silence the noise critiquing his performance: the remote.

The Redskins quarterback, who has thrown eight interceptions, including two in Sunday’s loss to the Jets, tells the Washington Post that he drowns out his critics — and there are plenty of them — not by pressing mute, but changing the channel.

“The way that I don’t listen to what they’re saying is, I don’t listen to what they’re saying,” Cousins said. “I turn on, you know, HGTV instead of ESPN. I think there are times when you can intentionally block it out, if you’re asking to do that.”


The rest of the article: Kirk Cousins tunes out tons of criticism with HGTV | New York Post


Hey, whatever calms those nerves down Kirk...
 
We have a lot more holes than folks want to acknowledge on this team.

Hopefully, Jay & Kirk are working overtime this week trying to fill those holes... CodeRed and all, ya know?
 
We have a lot more holes than folks want to acknowledge on this team. Our WR corps is no where near as strong as folks pretend. Garcon is a good, not great WR. Jackson is gone soon and on the downslope of his career. Roberts is a liability. Crowder is the only true future starter on this team at that position. Grant and Ross are, currently anyway, journeymen who I don't think are part of future plans (I'd like to see Ross prove me wrong but I don't think he's got the physical gifts to do so).

Agreed.

I don't think our receiving corps is a weakness per-se, but it's not the strength people think it is sometimes. Garcon isn't what he was, Jackson was great last year, but we've yet to see what he has this year, he's not been on the field yet. I think at this point he's too fragile and too expensive, and as we're not anywhere near a Superbowl contending team yet do we need that money on our books? Grant and Roberts are less than impressive and Jordan is always concussed (He says he's not worried about the long term effects, but damn it I'd be if I were him. He seems to have spent most of the last 3 years concussed hasn't he?!). Ross is as you say a journey man who may have talent... we'll see.

I'm with you, the only on in this group I like particularly is Crowder. I could see us keeping Garcon as a veteran presence along with Crowder and Ross. The rest might be gone next year.

Can we get Moss back?

:D
 
Agreed Om.

At this point RGIII in Washington is done I think. His salary is too high to keep him next year in competition with whoever we draft.

That's still the disconnect for me. I agreed with the fifth year option when they spoke of his progress in the off-season and it sounded like they were going still focused on working with Robert. But signing that and then burying him is what doesn't make sense to me.
 
On the other hand, it could be raining.
 
Heath Evans Says RG3, Redskins in 2012 Were a ?Mirage? « CBS DC

WASHINGTON —
For whatever reason, the Redskins’ second straight loss was the breaking point for a lot of fans’ patience with Kirk Cousins.

Not your typical young quarterback, the first nine starts of Cousins’ NFL career were scattered over three seasons, with two different head coaches, with his most significant playing time coming in the first year under Jay Gruden, in which Cousins made five starts in 2014 before being benched for poor play.

But that was last year, and after having two entire offseasons to assess his roster, Gruden has decided Cousins — until proven otherwise — gives the Redskins their best chance to win each Sunday.

“I feel like Kirk gives us the best chance to win still,” Gruden reinforced on Wednesday. “And I want to see him fight through this. And that’s going to be the making of a strong person, a strong football player, how they react to some tough times, and how they improve. So I’m excited to see him bounce back, have a big bounce-back game this week and [in the] coming weeks.”

Now 2-4 after six starts in 2015, at what point has Cousins had enough time to show his capabilities as an NFL passer?
To help answer that question, 106.7 The Fan’s Grant Paulsen and Danny Rouhier brought NFL Network’s Heath Evans onto their program Thursday.

“From the GMs that I know of and respect, and I guess the player personnel guys, the probably consensus number is 20 starts,” said Evans. “In 20 starts, you’ve got a really good fell of: Is this guy repetitively making the same mistakes over and over again? Week to week, does he grow? Are his eyes telling him lies? Or are his eyes telling him the truth? And then, is he putting the ball in the right position?

“And I think, I guess to be fair, you’d say there’s a lot of both. There’s times when you’re like, 'Kirk, why’d you do that again?’ But then there’s also significant plays, and I think this is what coach Gruden is kind of hanging his hat on right now — the kid is growing. And to the layman’s eye, when you look on the field and you say, 'This was a good pre-snap check. This was a good post-snap adjustment to what you though was going to be, but they threw a different coverage at you,’ there’s growth. And there’s also those blunder plays where Kirk leaves you scratching your head. So I would give Kirk through the end of this season to really make a true assessment on: Can he be a starter in this league or not?”
Evans is of the mind that even when Cousins struggles, while it may be angering to Redskins fans, those fans aren’t able to truly process what they’re seeing. “We love our fans, our fans pay all our paychecks, but the fans are fans,” he said.

“They’re just that.”

“99 percent of them don’t have a clue what they’re looking at on a Sunday afternoon,” he added. “So my message — and I don’t worry about coach Gruden; I do always worry about ownership, because they feel that pressure and they see the impact on the pocketbook in different ways — ignore the noise. The best coach, the best organization in this league, Bill Belichick, has it plastered on the front door when you walk in and when you walk out: Ignore the noise, because the noise doesn’t matter.

For another example of fans’ inability to process what they’re seeing, Evans looked back to 2012 when Robert Griffin III won Offensive Rookie of the Year and the Redskins won the NFC East under Mike Shanahan. That, Evans says, was merely a mirage.

“To the fans listening, 2012 was a mirage,” he said. “Look inside the division to Chip Kelly’s offense. Year 1, what did it do? It caught everyone by surprise. Year 2, more people adjusted, it got worse in every statistical category that mattered. Year 3, what’s going on with it? It’s complete garbage.

“RGIII in 2012 was a point-and-shoot offense. There was no NFL reads, there was no real true fundamental NFL quarterback play and it caught the league off guard. We saw people wanted to blame the knee and everything else; it wasn’t the knee. The good young man just doesn’t see the field, and he’s not capable of doing what an NFL quarterback has to do to win 10, 11 games a year.”

This assessment seems in agreement with Gruden’s. Griffin was not only the presumed starter entering this season, he was named the starter back in February, only to lose the job to Cousins after proving incapable of running the offense during a preseason game against the Detroit Lions.

There are additional complications in judging Cousins’ progress. For nearly all of the Redskins’ first six games, Cousins has been without his best downfield weapon, DeSean Jackson. For the past two games, Jordan Reed, Washington’s most dynamic offensive threat, has been missing as well.

“For me, there’s three or four quarterbacks in this league that you can give them garbage and they’re going to find a way to make your team competitive,” Evans said. “Well, there’s a lot of $20 million quarterbacks in our league that aren’t in that category, so with Kirk, I think it’s significant that there’s no DeSean. You know, people always talk about Kirk’s arm strength, but this team with Kirk and DeSean was a different offense. And there’s an ability to stretch the defense that they just don’t have right now.

“You mentioned Reed, another matchup guy that a young, immature quarterback — which is what Kirk is — needs those weapons. And Jay knows that. I think Mr. Snyder knows that. I think it’s tough to take the tape and say, 'What if we had those two weapons?’ I think Jay’s looking more towards, 'Was his read correct? Was his understanding of the defense — what he saw pre-snap — was that correct? Was his drop, and depth, and his placement, and his footwork, and his eyes and his mechanics?’ All the things that you can see grow week to week, I think that’s what Jay’s focused on.”

“Jay wouldn’t be hoping for a bounce-back game if he saw a whole bunch of things that were constant negatives,” he said.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Help Users
As we enjoy today's conversations, let's remember our dear friends 'Docsandy', Sandy Zier-Teitler, and 'Posse Lover', Michael Huffman, who would dearly love to be here with us today! We love and miss you guys ❤

You haven't joined any rooms.

    You haven't joined any rooms.
    Top