Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

Had Griff shown any acumen in the pocket after two healthy full off-seasons in the same system and used his inate skills 'voluntarily' to augment his new found acumen he would be in there getting the same coddling that Kirk now enjoys.

We can wish for things all we want but we still have to admit that for whatever reasons we choose, the Griffin experiment looks to have failed.

I fully suspect that Griffin carries just as much blame for his lack of success doing what he wanted to do as a QB as any one else including the Shanahans, don't forget he made in known that he was starting regardless. Coaches knew he was not ready mentally or physically. Yes Griff had the clout to do so via the media and internal favoritism allowed for the 'savior'.

Kirk on the other hand is willing to do anything to get better, fully expecting to lose his job if he fails. We know his limitations but we all still have to admit that when he came in under any circumstances he looked much more like a NFL QB than Griff.

Can his limitations be overcome, don't know but what we do know is that Kirk will give it an honest try and not predetermine that he's 'the guy'.
 
Heath Evans is the greatest fullback of all time hahahaha
 
tr1 said:
Kirk is being afforded more accommodation by Gruden than Gruden has ever offered RG3. Kirk gets more excuses (wind), more benefit of the doubt, and he continues to be a losing qb.

His INT problem goes back to college. He went to Jon's qb school this summer...it didn't help.

Kirk may look better in Gruden's scheme, but RG3 would look better in a scheme that matched his talents.

Gruden won't budge...because, well, he is Chucky's brother.

BTW, statistically, RG3 is way better than Kirk at this point...maybe not saying much, but with a willingness to abandon RG3 so quickly, it's way too difficult to see why Gruden is sticking with this mediocre talent.

I guess Kirk must be some kind of phenom in practice...but, he sure ain't a gamer.
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How many times do I have to tell you, Kirk is what he is...I accept that and don't expect much more. He probably won't ever make it in the NFL. But what does that tell you about how bad Robert must be? I mean...for real, he cannot maintain the starting job after being named starter all off-season into the 2nd pre-season game. How horrible must he be if he can't beat out the guy you say sucks so bad?

As much as you'd like to continue to revert the discussion back to Kirk when I bring up how bad Robert is, it doesn't matter. If Kirk is so bad, why did he beat out Robert? Must mean Robert is pretty bad, too.


Oh...I get it, it's preferential treatment.

2012! 2012!

At some point you have to let go of the poor treatment Robert has gotten, you know the private plane ride from the owner, the open door to the owner's office (I mean, that's gotta be tough)...and look at the future. Other teams have rebuilt in shorter periods of time, but the solid, consistent winners build from the ground up and that is what it looks like we're doing. Accept the fact that Robert is done! It's over. Then you can start seeing some of the positives, however minimal they appear to be after a tough loss to the Jets.

Now, when we go out and beat Tampa tomorrow, we can talk about the youth of this team and the structure being built...not how you want Robert to start.
 
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Guys - how many times are we going to have the same conversation. Barring a completely unlikely set of events, it's highly probable Griffin will never start another game in B&G. So why are we continuing to argue about it, and why do we continue arguing about it in this thread? It's just a waste of time.

It's funny - guys will always say 'I root for the team, not for the number'. And then they root for the number :)
 
Boone said:
Guys - how many times are we going to have the same conversation. Barring a completely unlikely set of events, it's highly probable Griffin will never start another game in B&G. So why are we continuing to argue about it, and why do we continue arguing about it in this thread? It's just a waste of time.

It's funny - guys will always say 'I root for the team, not for the number'. And then they root for the number :)
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I root for you!
 
Agreed Boone.

I'm a self confessed RGIII fan but I've let go of any thoughts that he'll start in the B&G again.

I think the debate in this thread is more about the fact we're now seeing what Kirk Cousins is definitively and we realize that the future QB of the franchise is not on this roster at this time. I remember 2012 fondly but I'm well aware of exactly how and why that occurred and it's not going to be repeated anytime soon.

Personally I don't think we'll see much more growth and development from Capt Kirk.

I'm now more interested in the rest of the team, how our rookies look and who's available in the draft next year.
 
tr1 said:
Your assumption is that Gruden is an objective, unbiased evaluator of talent. That Gruden's system is beyond reproach and should not be modified in any way to accommodate any players' strengths.

How's that working out so far?
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No ones said any such thing. If you believe Gruden was brought here to fix RG, it was never to modify his system to do so. It was to help RG learn the pocket game. Something he's made no progress in going back to his second year when he started that transition attempt. This is such a stupid conversation at this point. Gruden didn't break RG. RG has some responsibility in this. A coach has say on who starts. At least ours does now that we have a GM setting up a really football hierarchy. Gruden has clearly decided RG is not his guy. I would say that for that to happen McCL has come to the same conclusion. That's the end of it. Reasons do not matter. He's the head coach. We've moved on from RG. It's over. He's never starting again for this team. At this point he has no bearing on the team or it's future. It's like rehashing Billy/Sonny and being upset over the outcome. It's history, just a little more recent. I think it's entirely possible we can discuss Kirk and Jay without it devolving into the same tired discussion that each of us have settled on as to our opinions. Let it go dude.
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
because some of us were against spending what we did on RG3 and now we are pissed that after spending such a high price we are wasting time playing a guy who will never be more than an average back up.
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What was wasted on RG has no bearing on who is starting now. There's no correlation. The picks were wasted and can't be recovered. The team has moved on. We're stuck with 2 backups at best. Flip a coin. There was never a chance of this being anything other than a .500 or worse season.
 
It always seems like someone just wants a fight. What's the purpose of someone telling you that? They have a right to believe and say whatever they want and not be demanded to do anything.

Just show some respect and stop talking at people. It makes it easier for everyone involved.
 
You must be participating in a different conversation, because what I see is most agree that both sides are at fault. In the end many of us believe RG doesn't have the skills to progress as a pocket QB and never will. Is that on RG? Is that on Shanahan or Gruden? Or is it just the reality that bites 90% of the QB's who ever enter the NFL in the ass? Does Gruden treat Kirk differently? Yup. Maybe you can own up to the obvious that RG has some blame in that too. Maybe a better middle ground is that the two sides of this conversation simply disagree and it's ok. None of us are happy the way it went. No matter how much you drag him into the conversation, opinions are not going to change. Discussions of him can only be divisive and caustic. Dredging it up time and again provides no value to any conversation that has to do with the current state of the team. Now, I've admitted Gruden treats Kirk differently. He treats Kirk like he's his boy. Truthfully. Good enough?? :)
 
tr1 said:
The minute others admit that Gruden has treated Kirk differently from the moment he became head coach is when I'll drop it.

We all know RG3 isn't going to get another chance here...but to say it's ALL on RG3 is what continues to fan the flames.

Dude(s), own up to the obvious and the discussion will end. :)
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Who - EVER - has said 'it's all on RG3'? No one - that's who. There are plenty of folks who argue (and I agree with them), great QBs (you know, the one's teams trade 3 first round picks for) find a way to succeed. Their talent elevates them above coaching staffs, above schemes, and sure as hell above QBs selected multiple rounds after they were. So, yeah, the actual player is significantly responsible for their own success.

I would appreciate those of you who want to discuss Griffin and the injustice of it all to find the appropriate thread to do so in. There must be 100 of them :)
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
because some of us were against spending what we did on RG3 and now we are pissed that after spending such a high price we are wasting time playing a guy who will never be more than an average back up.
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What's the alternative? Play RG3 and wait for him to get injured again? Then what?

Would any team in the league think that they could build a 6 or 8 year future with his injury history? Of course not. And would any team pay that QB $16 million next season? Again, no.

So the other alternative right now is to play Colt? Don't you think it makes sense to play Cousins for another 2 or 3 games to be 100% sure that he can't be the answer going forward? That seems to be reasonable.

If he sucks it up hard then I'm sure we'll see Colt get his chance.
 
I'm not sure we'll see McCoy. I think they want to give Kirk the season as they said. I don't think it makes a difference which of them start, so I'd just as soon see Kirk ride it out. Maybe the light bulb goes off. Two seasons worth of starts is a reasonable expectation when you don't have the heir apparent in the wings.
 
stevenaa said:
I'm not sure we'll see McCoy. I think they want to give Kirk the season as they said. I don't think it makes a difference which of them start, so I'd just as soon see Kirk ride it out. Maybe the light bulb goes off. Two seasons worth of starts is a reasonable expectation when you don't have the heir apparent in the wings.
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It probably just depends on how Cousins does. If he's mediocre, then I agree with you. If he comes out and throws 4 picks in the first half, then I believe they'll pull him at least for that game.

They'd likely even start him again the next game. If he threw four more picks then I'd assume that he's done in favor of Colt.

I don't expect anything like that to happen, but I could see him getting benched if things got incredibly outrageous.
 
tr1 said:
You must have missed post #649...
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Here's what I believe you and a handful of other fans are missing in the big picture.

You would go crazy if we traded for or drafted a QB with 2 ACLs, several concussions and a dislocated ankle right now. "Stupidest decision ever" is what people would say.

It's not even an option. You can't build a team around someone like that--let alone pay him big money.

Now if we were one step away from a SB, and you wanted to roll the dice on a 36 year old Peyton Manning for a year or two as Denver did, that's an entirely different story. But to think that guy could be around 5 or 6 years from now? No.

It's over. That's it.

So what's the point in even entertaining it? There is none.
 
How many picks do we think he throws tomorrow?

Serious question. Knowing my luck I wouldn't be shocked if he balled out and caused this argument to last even longer
 
McD5 said:
It probably just depends on how Cousins does. If he's mediocre, then I agree with you. If he comes out and throws 4 picks in the first half, then I believe they'll pull him at least for that game.

They'd likely even start him again the next game. If he threw four more picks then I'd assume that he's done in favor of Colt.

I don't expect anything like that to happen, but I could see him getting benched if things got incredibly outrageous.
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If they pull him he should stay pulled. I think it's best to make him struggle through it, toughen up and let it ride.
 
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