I should be the gm lol (common sense not so common)

You deserve credit for being right, but you have a convenient memory. Loads of us were weary of Shanny, didn't like Haslett and thought the 3-4 was a dumb idea considering our personnel at the time.

What you also forget is that Shanny, with his veneer of football stability, was desperate to get back into football. In fact, he's the only guy who would consider working for DS, and that's likely because DS had just hired Allen, who was also desperate to get back into football.

It's easy to hire desperate guys...who had both recently been released for poor performance...something many of us pointed out at the time.

what kind of armchair psychology is this?

yea....you have special insight.....special powers!....and know for a fact both men were desperate. what kind of second-rate analysis is this? ever march down an analytic path where one has to assess alternative hypotheses? here's an example:

hypothesis 1: Allen came back to the Redskins because his Dad and family had an entrenched history with the franchise.

hypothesis 2: Allen came back to the Skins because he was desperate to get back into football.

hmmmm...seems more reasonable to me than the incisive "he was desperate" may be a bit of a stretch. seems reasonable to me that people might think "I can take a bad situation and make it better. I know how. I will set the going in conditions that give me a chance." who knows...I could be wrong. but at least I can entertain that idea instead of just throwing stuff against the virtual wall.

so...where's your evidence both men were desperate? what other options dd these folks have (inside and outside football)? how does one measure "desperate"? what behavior patterns lead you to believe this is rock solid truth?

need to establish your credibility here.
 
This is a very good description of what I've believed is going on from the beginning from someone who is very likely to know.

Friday Conversation: Louis Riddick - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

Louis Riddick endured the chaos in Washington from 2001-07, first as a scout and then as director of pro personnel. He knows the toll it takes and what needs to happen. This is Part 1 of our conversation with him.

You worked here when you had to deal with a lot of distractions. How crazy did it get when you worked here?

High turnover and disarray within the organization have been constants during the Dan Snyder era in Washington.
Louis Riddick: I’m not going into great detail, but I’ll say this: It’s very difficult to build a team in the NFL without all those types of extra distractions to deal with, meaning the team has to be structured very clearly both when you’re talking about how the front office is set up – there are different ways to set up a front office, but the structure has to be very defined as to whose role is what and the coaches have to have it the same way. Everyone has to be allowed, as Bill Belichick says, to do their job without interference from anyone. The problem here is it’s very difficult to do that when the person at the very top, who has the right to do what he wants because it’s his team, puts obstacles – whether knowingly or unintentionally – in the way of you doing your job to the utmost of your ability, but then holding you accountable. It’s an impossible situation to win in. Thus it leads to continuous turnover that is always marked in the end by huge circus-like blowups. It’s always ugly. It gets uglier every time. That vicious cycle can only be stopped by one person. I don’t know exactly what’s happening there because I’m not there. But looking at it and listening to what’s being said brings back some very familiar feelings and memories as to what it’s like to deal with that. I know the owner cares about the team and is a lifelong fan and wants to win.

The blueprint is there from a management and structure perspective as to how to give yourself the best chance to get a Super Bowl championship. To knowingly not give yourself the best chance to do that by having these kinds of situations come up, like the treatment of Robert Griffin III … it takes away from giving the team the best chance to win.

This isn’t just about Mike Shanahan and RG3 and the owner, this is about the coordinators and assistant coaches and training staff, the weight training staff, all the support staff, the secretaries, the personnel people, the marketing people. They all look at it going, 'Here we go again.’ What you become reduced to, regardless of whether it’s the Washington Redskins or any other company embroiled in controversy, you just start working for a check and look forward to getting paid. You become detached. You don’t care about the color or brand because you feel the brand and colors don’t care about you and if they did it wouldn’t be allowed to happen over and over.

People will read some of that and say Mike Shanahan is getting no blame. What’s his role in this mess?

Riddick: Everyone’s looking at Dan and the continuous change that’s taken place there every few years. If you look at Shanahan’s track record, is it not documented that generally speaking he’s considered someone who makes things personal and takes things to a new level when it comes to having relationships that end badly with specific players? From the outside looking in it seems very much so. You hear that it can become very personal with him and it crosses the line from being professional to personal and from different things we’ve heard, it has become personal. He may have let some of this get out of control even though he knew he could have done things to reign in this whole Robert Griffin is too entitled and coddled line at an earlier time and he didn’t do enough to get it under control and this is the result, this kind of theatrics and drama. The other role is he’s had control of this team for four years and this happened under his watch and he controlled everything. Everyone in that building that I know says he has exercised final say over everything. So to not have a line that can protect this kid, to not have constructed or put together a defense from a personnel perspective that can give them a fighting chance to stay in games and to have the offense become something it’s not good at, which is a dropback passing offense, that’s his fault. And for allowing the never-ending series of press conferences and offseason to become a back and forth, almost like a tennis match, between him and Robert. Mike has final say to football operations and he could have put an end to that. Now, even though you’ve given contractual control to Mike doesn’t mean Dan can’t have a negative influence. I was there when Marty had control over everything and things got ugly then, too. But at the same time the head coach can’t turn around and start playing this through back channels and laying it at the feet of the owner, either. [Shanahan] is more responsible for the product on the field, more than responsible. It’s him.

Do you ever think it could change here?

Riddick: Sure. Everybody has a pain threshold. Everybody at some point comes to the realization that whatever they’re doing is not working and it’s getting too painful and counterproductive to continue down the path they’re on. ... It’s hard to build a team with all the distractions available to [players], let alone when you feel like there are other forces within your own building that are making it even more difficult to keep the ship moving in the right direction. When you’re imploding from within, you have no shot. Even when you’re doing everything theoretically correct a lot of times it doesn’t work out because there are always unforeseen circumstances. It’s hard enough. You throw this on top of it, it makes it 20 times more difficult. And then you hold the people who are building the team and coaching the team responsible, but did you really give them a chance to succeed? The answer is obviously no, you didn’t. As I’m watching it, I can still remember the kind of things you start thinking about as you’re a part of it. It’s tough to have to deal with because you feel you’re a part of the team and you feel in some ways you start losing your fire a little bit. You lose your edge to help the place pull out of it.
 
yes Boone. this is a good link.

Shanahan (and Allen) is accountable - as are others in the FO advising Snyder. and Snyder needs to let him finish out so that disruptive practices of the past are not revisited. the only caveat I can see is if Shanahan decides to elevate this to a personal level that undermines everything. otherwise, continue to improve the roster. and judge by the final season on his contract. Snyder needs a strategy, obviously, but he needs to stay out of the media and the drama - especially if he wants to hire a follow-on coach who is something more than the next Zorn.

personnel wise? I'd place the priority next season on the o-line. another crappy season cuz the defense sucks - I know. but this is gonna be yet another one step at a time evolution. it can be done - though none of us believe it after 20+ years!!

we as fans better sit back and absorb the reality of the situation. there aint going to be any quick fixes!
 
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we have concrete evidence - locked into a contract - that he has changed. whether that is enough - don't know. I do know the goal is to move forward.

The contract itself isn't evidence of change. The contract was the only way he'd get a guy like Shamahan to sign up. Saying that the contract is proof is like saying that every marriage is until death do us part. "See Mom, I told you I could be responsible!" It doesn't work like that. Whether he breaks it or not then goes out after the next new hot coach will tell us the story and he likely will now because the fans want it. Nobody will blame Snyder now but it doesn't mean he changed either. If the fans had revolted after 2011 and Rex/Beck and a guy like RG3 wasn't there I'm wondering if Shanahan got year 3. It's great that he seems to listen to us but really he's just listening to the cash flow. It flows alot more when fans are duped into a frenzy I.E. Hiring Shanahan trading for a washed up McNugget, Haynesworth, drafting RG3, etc. Snyder only knows marketing, he's good at hype so he hires hype whether warranted or not. He'd have hired Chip Kelly but the timing was off.

This situation is similar to when he hired Schottenheimer and because he's stayed out of things longer isn't evidence of change either. It just shows that he's as perceptive as a dog who is shy for a while after getting hit for humping your leg. He knows by now that the fans are done with his BS, he remembers too. He knows how bad the media will grill him for doing something like he did by firing Schotty and hiring Fish Lips and Bug Eyes. That backfired like most everything he's done besides all the hype. That hype has always proven to sell tickets and jerseys. Now the fans are mostly for a new coach and the last game the stadium was a ghosttown but this is where Snyder excels at marketing and more hype. I bet he's excited right now.

It's not about doing things right. It's about doing things SPECTACULARLY. Let's just be honest about it.

Only a fool believes that anything has changed.
 
The contract itself isn't evidence of change. The contract was the only way he'd get a guy like Shamahan to sign up. Saying that the contract is proof is like saying that every marriage is until death do us part. "See Mom, I told you I could be responsible!" It doesn't work like that. Whether he breaks it or not then goes out after the next new hot coach will tell us the story and he likely will now because the fans want it. Nobody will blame Snyder now but it doesn't mean he changed either. If the fans had revolted after 2011 and Rex/Beck and a guy like RG3 wasn't there I'm wondering if Shanahan got year 3. It's great that he seems to listen to us but really he's just listening to the cash flow. It flows alot more when fans are duped into a frenzy I.E. Hiring Shanahan trading for a washed up McNugget, Haynesworth, drafting RG3, etc. Snyder only knows marketing, he's good at hype so he hires hype whether warranted or not. He'd have hired Chip Kelly but the timing was off.

This situation is similar to when he hired Schottenheimer and because he's stayed out of things longer isn't evidence of change either. It just shows that he's as perceptive as a dog who is shy for a while after getting hit for humping your leg. He knows by now that the fans are done with his BS, he remembers too. He knows how bad the media will grill him for doing something like he did by firing Schotty and hiring Fish Lips and Bug Eyes. That backfired like most everything he's done besides all the hype. That hype has always proven to sell tickets and jerseys. Now the fans are mostly for a new coach and the last game the stadium was a ghosttown but this is where Snyder excels at marketing and more hype. I bet he's excited right now.

It's not about doing things right. It's about doing things SPECTACULARLY. Let's just be honest about it.

Only a fool believes that anything has changed.

well then..color me a fool. I guess I must defer to your superior knowledge and insights.

but you're wrong about the contract. you may be missing some key insights - such as that it makes Shanahan accountable.

but to each his own! Snyder hasn't changed cuz you say so! ok!
 
but you're wrong about the contract. you may be missing some key insights - such as that it makes Shanahan accountable.

Schottenheimer was "accountable" too. How'd that one work out? How does that equal change on Snyder's part?

Accountability doesn't=winning. To a guy like Snyder making media hyped "genius" and overrated 2 time SB winner "accountable" just means more season tickets sold. Whether winning was likely or not was a secondary consideration. I think some of us were saying these same words 5 years ago when this Shanahan chatter started too.
 
and your evidence would be?

15 years of failure? Tell me, fansince, would YOU have been allowed 15 years of failure at any job you held? Would you have had 15 years of failure? Or would you have learned from your mistakes and moved on, becoming better at what you did? That's my evidence - proof is in the pudding as they say.

"he's incapable of learning...." this is the sort of universal generalization that folks with a bent for the "facts" (as you like to call them) find troubling. there clearly have been changes. Snyder may not be a paragon of virtue - but he's not the same sort of owner he was when he started. again, I'm not defending or condemning him. I'm assessing the current situation, understanding it's very different from the past, and making some projections on what needs to be done to move forward.

yup...Shanahan...a two time SB winner....is just so stupid, greedy and arrogant that he went ahead and signed up for the gig anyway...knowing the owner was "...incapable of...."

sorry....pissing into the wind over the past doesn't solve anything. Snyder isn't going anywhere. we have concrete evidence - locked into a contract - that he has changed. whether that is enough - don't know. I do know the goal is to move forward.

we can all be frustrated. we can all be angry (I am). but, no one forces any of you to hang around the B&G bar.

some folks look through the small end of the telescope.....some folks look through the large end.

LOL. I love how you constantly post crap like this, then accuse OTHERS of "armchair psychology." But thanks for the deep insight into my psyche. :rolleyes2:
 
15 years of failure? Tell me, fansince, would YOU have been allowed 15 years of failure at any job you held? Would you have had 15 years of failure? Or would you have learned from your mistakes and moved on, becoming better at what you did? That's my evidence - proof is in the pudding as they say.



LOL. I love how you constantly post crap like this, then accuse OTHERS of "armchair psychology." But thanks for the deep insight into my psyche. :rolleyes2:

Lanky: I'd love to fall for the bait.....but you aren't worth it!

I'll just sit back and laugh.

I'm interested in the here and now and how to fix things. I elect not to revisit the past and, again, connect the dots for you.

Got it - you have an animus for Snyder. Check in the block. That's a plan alrighty!

Now, step aside, and let adults discuss how to move forward.

however frustrating it might be: HTTR and here's hoping they improve next season. others can hate.
 
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Ah, forgive me. This is a fan forum where speculation, hyperbole and conjecture should never be put forward. :rotflmao:

Pardon me for not being naive and believing everything coming from official channels and press releases.

History tells us how many can be duped by doing so.

Oh, and please address me as Karnak from now on.

got it: you have no evidence. you're a po'd fan and you want to wank a bit.

fair enough.

just putting things in context.

have a nice weekend!
 
Tr1 and fan - take it to pm.
 
If I were GM?

I'd tell Mr. Snyder during the interview :

Me: Look Dan. I grew up a Redskins fan too. Witnessed the Glory Years..just like you. Question to you. What did all those Super Bowl teams have in common?

Dan: Art Monk?

Me: Besides that.

Dan: OOOhh..OOOhhh... Joe Gibbs!

Me: Besides that.

Dan: The Hogs?


Me: Finally. Yes. But also, we were stout on both sides of the line. That's what I want to do.

We have a QB,WR,RB and a promising TE to build around...just let me build the trenches.

Dan: No problem. I know a contractor that's got a big,brand new Caterpillar backhoe. How deep ya want it and where?

Me: *facepalm*
 
lol, im pretty sure snyder knows enough to understand how horrible we are on the Oline.

I wouldn't be so confident in that statement Ry.

Sooooo many teams fail to heed the lessons of the past that it leads me to believe that too many owners and front offices get so enamored with the skill positions, that they either forget about the foundation or think they can get out cheap on it.
 

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