Haskins - Going Forward

[MikefromOH]

Haskins is one of these new generation kids who live and die by the like from social media.

I really thought he was putting in serious work by looking at who he was working out with over the summer, and just how much he looked like he improved. but, alas, he was not and all that weight loss and throws on the run were for nothing.

 

[Boone]

I don’t think there’s any doubt he put in a lot of work. I’m guessing it is his absorption of the coaching upstairs and/or maturity issues that has gotten him into trouble?

There does seem to be some kind of disconnect between all the hard work he reportedly put in during the off-season and then rumors about him not putting in the effort once named starter. That may be exactly what happened but it doesn’t make much sense and I get why some question whether that’s really what’s gone on.

 

[SilentThreat]

beyond just questioning it... what was the work for?

MikefromOH has always, and Mike I give you a lot of credit, questioned whether it would translate. Him and I went back and forth, myself beating the drum saying "look what Haskins is doing." Sharing videos to our chats.

Yes Boone, he put in a lot of work, but it appears it was not geared toward football. It was geared toward Social Media and branding. Look at his Twitter. I shared this a couple pages ago but it bears repeating.

"A humble man is all this world will ever need.... Business Inquries Contact:"

The work was never about football.... I was completely wrong.

 

[MikefromOH]

I grew up with men in my life who were great role models who would be 100% honest with me when I needed it most.

"sometimes you just need to shut the F up and accept this lesson" is one of the things I used to hear when I was just like him. His feathers are ruffled, his ego is bruised, and he is bucking back the only way he knows how.

instead, he is being the Simba his name reflects. Pouting because he isn't in charge, he can't wait to be king, and if you dont agree he is going to not speak with you.

 

[SilentThreat]

Doug Williams ain't so dumb...

 

[MikefromOH]

when you saw them bring in a young and eager QB from their system that already had a year playing in it...all alarms should have gone off in your head that this was serious and you needed to pay attention.

when they hired a guy here who took the job I was applying for as well...I made sure my name was on EVERYTHING that I knew would get me recognized. I worked harder, and did more...simply out of fear of him taking my job.

 

[SilentThreat]

 

[SirClintonPortis]

I don’t think there’s any doubt he put in a lot of work. I’m guessing it is his absorption of the coaching upstairs and/or maturity issues that has gotten him into trouble?

There does seem to be some kind of disconnect between all the hard work he reportedly put in during the off-season and then rumors about him not putting in the effort once named starter. That may be exactly what happened but it doesn’t make much sense and I get why some question whether that’s really what’s gone on.

Some people are just the type who are extrinsically motivated. They do things not because of love of the work or self-satisfaction at just getting the work done, but rather in pursuit of other things despite not liking the work itself. It seems that Haskins might be the type who does things to get something in return besides winning games.

There's bare minimum work and then there's the HoF standard, which would probably be OCD or literally "live and breathe" football. It's the difference between working 8-5 in the facility vs 5am to 10pm.

 

[SilentThreat]

 

[MikefromOH]

he BETTER include himself in that comparison. Son is NOT playing like his idol at all.

 

[Bulldog]

I think Haskins exudes that same false humility with the media that RGIII did.

Behind the scenes with coaches, teammates and others he is a far different and far more difficult person to get along with and support.

Remember when RGIII started that game in 2014 and was sacked a number of times in the first half and folks were wondering if his linemen wanted to block for him?

It may have been an erroneous question but the surrounding atmosphere WITHIN the team at that time towards Griffin made the question somewhat relevant in that case.

Here Haskins has already been upbraided by veterans like Adrian Peterson and Thomas Davis, both 14 year veterans of the league and he seemingly brushes off their comments and advice as if he already has all of the answers.

Again, if Rivera in his heart of hearts knew Haskins was not the answer and that was confirmed by Scott Turner when he was hired to be the OC and the team moved on from Kevin O'Connell, then they should have traded Haskins in the offseason.

We could have signed Cam Newton to a reasonable one year contract and been competitive at the qb position pending our participation in the 2021 draft.

This time we could actually let Kyle Smith pick the next qb instead of Dan Snyder.

 

[Win4us]

Seems legit...

 

[Bulldog]

Part of the reason Haskins has been labeled 'terrible' by some NFL insiders is not because he has thrown 4 picks in each game or called the wrong plays from the headset time after time.

The reason from what I have gathered is because of HOW MUCH Haskins has left on the field that could have gone Washington's way and how LIMITED Scott Turner and the other coaches have to be in preparing a game plan for Dwayne to cover areas of his game that are not strengths at this point.

In that regard it is somewhat analogous to having a nephew or son that can ride a bike with training wheels but you KNOW is not capable at this time of taking the training wheels off and letting him bike ride on his own around the neighborhood even on short trips.

My own feeling watching quarterbacks over the years is to agree with Mike Lombardi (who I have disagreed with a lot in the past on other topics) that Haskins does not pass the smell test. Forget the poor execution at times or the inability to read specific coverages where guys are open, Dwayne in a 60 minute game just never seems to have those 3-5 plays where you watch and say to yourself - 'that's what made him a first round pick'.

Whether it's showing a strong accurate arm in getting the ball out quick on a blitz, or pinpoint laser a ball downfield for a quick strike, etc. Dwayne just never seems to show those 'ups' when on the field.

What he showed in the Baltimore game is that given a game plan of bubble screens, hitches and 'robo' plays where he goes to his first option without exception he can complete some passes. And if the backs and receivers are fast and have good hands they can make the final stat sheet look respectable. Hence the 314 yards Dwayne was crowing about in the locker room after the game.

But unless we are talking about those short passes turning into 80 yard touchdown runs after the catch Washington was never realistically going to be able to challenge a team like the Ravens. Once Baltimore went over 21 points to me they seemed to know they had the game won, unless they put RGIII in the game a quarter earlier

 

[MikefromOH]

I can't name a single Ohio St QB who has made it as a QB in the NFL.

Haskins throwing for 4K in college isn't as big of a deal as you think if you look at the fact he had JK Dobbins and Terry McLaurin with him.

 

[Boone]

I can't name a single Ohio St QB who has made it as a QB in the NFL.

Haskins throwing for 4K in college isn't as big of a deal as you think if you look at the fact he had JK Dobbins and Terry McLaurin with him.

He had a great year. Great talent helps, but to be fair, all major college programs have great talent across the board. He completed over 70% of his passes, threw a shit-ton of TDs and hardly any INTs. He looked amazing. It just hasn't translated to the NFL level. He wasn't asked to do a lot in terms of reading defenses in college.... hell, didn't really have to call plays to any significant degree, or take snaps from under canter. But his final year at OSU was impressive. That doesn't mean there weren't plenty of potential red flags that were the reason no one took him early in the 1st round.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I can't name a single Ohio St QB who has made it as a QB in the NFL.

Haskins throwing for 4K in college isn't as big of a deal as you think if you look at the fact he had JK Dobbins and Terry McLaurin with him.

But where you go to college doesn't matter. No college has a great QB history, until they do. How many great QBs has Miami of Ohio had? How about Wyoming? Or Alcorn State? Ben Roethlisberger, Josh Allen, and Steve McNair respectively are the only successful NFL QBs from those schools. I'm sure there are others, but you get the point. QBs are drafted based on college production. Haskins production was huge and he deserved to be drafted highly based on that. I've made this point before that what separates the great college players from the average NFL players is how they adapt and how they learn the pro game. Haskins hasn't done a good job yet in learning the pro game, which is why he struggles. If it's true he's not putting in the work, that's an obvious reason why. Other teams may have noticed things in pre-draft interviews that indicated that. This team didn't.

 

[SilentThreat]

But where you go to college doesn't matter. No college has a great QB history, until they do. How many great QBs has Miami of Ohio had? How about Wyoming? Or Alcorn State? Ben Roethlisberger, Josh Allen, and Steve McNair respectively are the only successful NFL QBs from those schools. I'm sure there are others, but you get the point. QBs are drafted based on college production. Haskins production was huge and he deserved to be drafted highly based on that. I've made this point before that what separates the great college players from the average NFL players is how they adapt and how they learn the pro game. Haskins hasn't done a good job yet in learning the pro game, which is why he struggles. If it's true he's not putting in the work, that's an obvious reason why. Other teams may have noticed things in pre-draft interviews that indicated that. This team didn't.

I actually think you're making the point....

Oklahoma is about the only school that has multiple starting QBs in the NFL... Kyler Murray and Baker Mayfield.

Smaller school QBs are asked to do more. They don't have the team around them to excel so their talent and ability is what carries them. Look at the top teams in the NCAA. Watson went to Clemson, Cam went to Auburn, and Brady went to Michigan. What premier QB am I missing?

Aaron Rodgers - Cal
Matt Ryan - BC
Drew Brees - Purdue
Russell Wilson - Wisconsin


You pointed out -

Roethlesberger - Miami of Ohio
Josh Allen - Wyoming


i think the bigger point here is to look at production vs talent around player. Lawrence may be the exception to this theory as he may be a really good QB. How many Alabama QBs succeed, yet they're regularly considered the best team in the nation. Ohio State being another program that can recruit well enough to get so much talent, that the QB doesn't have to be THAT good.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Part of the reason Haskins has been labeled 'terrible' by some NFL insiders is not because he has thrown 4 picks in each game or called the wrong plays from the headset time after time.

The reason from what I have gathered is because of HOW MUCH Haskins has left on the field that could have gone Washington's way and how LIMITED Scott Turner and the other coaches have to be in preparing a game plan for Dwayne to cover areas of his game that are not strengths at this point.

In that regard it is somewhat analogous to having a nephew or son that can ride a bike with training wheels but you KNOW is not capable at this time of taking the training wheels off and letting him bike ride on his own around the neighborhood even on short trips.

My own feeling watching quarterbacks over the years is to agree with Mike Lombardi (who I have disagreed with a lot in the past on other topics) that Haskins does not pass the smell test. Forget the poor execution at times or the inability to read specific coverages where guys are open, Dwayne in a 60 minute game just never seems to have those 3-5 plays where you watch and say to yourself - 'that's what made him a first round pick'.

Whether it's showing a strong accurate arm in getting the ball out quick on a blitz, or pinpoint laser a ball downfield for a quick strike, etc. Dwayne just never seems to show those 'ups' when on the field.

What he showed in the Baltimore game is that given a game plan of bubble screens, hitches and 'robo' plays where he goes to his first option without exception he can complete some passes. And if the backs and receivers are fast and have good hands they can make the final stat sheet look respectable. Hence the 314 yards Dwayne was crowing about in the locker room after the game.

But unless we are talking about those short passes turning into 80 yard touchdown runs after the catch Washington was never realistically going to be able to challenge a team like the Ravens. Once Baltimore went over 21 points to me they seemed to know they had the game won, unless they put RGIII in the game a quarter earlier

The Baltimore team we faced beat us, but they weren't godly good. We could have hanged around with a more potent O.

Haskins has a strong arm but no legs or eyes. The Cleveland game showed his inaccuracy problems when he tried to push the ball downfield. The Ravens game was him overcompensating the other way. But then him gloating about his stat line....his goals are simply not algined with what development means; he sounds like a used car salesman selling a lemon, and the lemon is himself. He needed to work on his accuracy and footwork regardless of anything else. His marksmanship has been flaky from the start and is a necessity to get fixed if he wants to start.

Scott Turner definitely employs some of the concepts from his dad although he has integrated "West coast" concepts as well as offenses have evolved from the 90s. But Haskins wasn't showing he could make the throws an Aikman or Rivers could for the Turner offense.


As far as a drafted prospect goes, Haskins is the most tiresome to watch. We saw flashes of wow and an amazing deep ball from RGIII, we saw flashes of Kirk being able to play at a high level. Heck, even Jason Campbell brought some sort of consistent game to the table, though not impressive.

Lombardi's opinion about the all QBs in that draft Haskins came from being all backups might come true.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

But where you go to college doesn't matter. No college has a great QB history, until they do. How many great QBs has Miami of Ohio had? How about Wyoming? Or Alcorn State? Ben Roethlisberger, Josh Allen, and Steve McNair respectively are the only successful NFL QBs from those schools. I'm sure there are others, but you get the point. QBs are drafted based on college production. Haskins production was huge and he deserved to be drafted highly based on that. I've made this point before that what separates the great college players from the average NFL players is how they adapt and how they learn the pro game. Haskins hasn't done a good job yet in learning the pro game, which is why he struggles. If it's true he's not putting in the work, that's an obvious reason why. Other teams may have noticed things in pre-draft interviews that indicated that. This team didn't.

Ohio State has a history of underwhelming but athletic QBs. Haskins is not athletic but still productive due to the gimmicky scheme and overload of talent at the skill positions.

Completion percentage is not a reliable marker of "accuracy". It's measure of balls being thrown into the "window" of the receiver. If a scheme in college can make gigantic window for receiver and loads of YAC, that doesn't indicate the QB can hit the bullseye, just that he can hit in the circles surrounding the bullseye or the bullseye itself.

Jay Gruden allegedly wasn't on board. Rivera inherited him. They obviously saw something that gave cause for concern. Haskins was drafted at least one round too soon by Allen and Snyder.

Haskins has no excuse for not trying to learn. After all, Alex Smith can easily relate since Meyer was ALSO his college coach and he too had to go through a carousel of coaches. Smith knows what Meyer football is and how much more NFL football requires and he's a willing mentor. If Haskins is only committed to doing work to gain personal prestige and endorsements, then he's going into the violent sport for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Boone]

Okay - let me put it another way. Haskins was accurate as hell in his final year at OSU. I watched almost every snap of that last year. I understand the distinction you're making SCP, but at some level - it's a bit silly. If the WR caught it, it was certainly 'accurate' enough. He has not been 'accurate' at the NFL level, whether it's the speed of the game, his level of comfort, waiting for receivers to 'get open' vs. throwing the ball where they will be, whatever it is. But he did not struggle with accuracy at OSU.

Look - Gruden only needed one reason not to want Haskins under center. And that's that Dan Snyder made the franchise draft him with that expectation. It wasn't personal. I'm not even sure it had anything to do with his assessment of Haskins talent level. Gruden was dead man walking and he wasn't going to cow tow to what Dan-effing-Snyder wanted. Period.

My concerns with Haskins have less to do with what I've seen and more to do with Rivera and Turner's response to how he is handling himself. Not being able to impress new coaches with your attitude, leadership, and work ethic is a very concerning sign. There's no need to retroactively make him the worst QB pick ever (he wasn't) or ignore his last college season which was very impressive no matter what kind of pro QB he ends up being. It's not necessary. He had a great year at OSU and has a load of talent. He just may not be able to transition to what is expected of an NFL starter. Or maybe he will be able to at some point.