Front Office Hires - Love them or hate them?

[Win4us]

He may not have gotten any interview requests then but he’s sure getting interest now though. From 3 of the better teams in the league to boot. Only thing that’s changed to my knowledge is Smith’s probability of leaving the WFT. Judging the last skins 2 drafts he’s been in charge of Kyle won’t be unemployed for very long at all. A point we should never have been at imho, but c’est la vie.

From what I gather Hurney’s track record of overspending on contracts is exactly the opposite of what the team needs. Mayhew has been with the recently successful 49’s but how much of that player profiling was his doing and not anyone else? His record as lions GM was pretty awful as well. Hopefully the new staff can dig out those late round gems.

Time always tells if these were smart hires or not but it looks like we’re preparing for win now mode, and that’s got us absolutely zilch in the past.

 

[SilentThreat]

There is a balance necessary.

Something we have to remember is that what is going to happen this off-season has never happened to this level before. The cap is going DOWN by about 15% (most likely). We sill see a free agent class like we have never seen before, and players will likely be forced to take shorter terms and less money than they would normally get.


I feel like I need to clarify that I want Kyle Smith in our building...his player evaluation appears to be as good as it gets... I would love to continue to groom him and ultimately have him as the GM. I'm only saying I understand the mentality of not handing him the GM title and everything that comes with it a year after he got promoted,, and while it appears he has not done anything a GM does outside of player eval. That putting him at GM just to keep him from going elsewhere could be very dangerous toward the rehabilitation of building this franchise if he gets in over his head in things like contract negotiation and football ops management

 

[Win4us]

No doubt, I would expect the WFT and majority of the league offer many of those quality players cut smaller contracts. I believe we’ll basically see 1 year prove it deals all over the league instead of the lucrative ones in years past. Then if the league pulls their head out of their ass, and reopens, the cap should slowly climb back to normal.

“IF” Smith ends up leaving it’ll be 100% on Ron. Ron will be the one who failed to keep a quality personnel man in the building due to whatever the reason, regardless of what it is. The way I see it is if RR didn’t think he’s ready for the sole GM role then he coulda made KS an assistant GM, or president of the draft, or whatever it takes regarding titles.

Pretty sure the majority of the fan base would take KS drafts over Mayhew’s any day of the week. The fact that we’re probably going to lose him is inconceivable

 

[SilentThreat]

No doubt, I would expect the WFT and majority of the league offer many of those quality players cut smaller contracts. I believe we’ll basically see 1 year prove it deals all over the league instead of the lucrative ones in years past. Then if the league pulls their head out of their ass, and reopens, the cap should slowly climb back to normal.

“IF” Smith ends up leaving it’ll be 100% on Ron. Ron will be the one who failed to keep a quality personnel man in the building due to whatever the reason, regardless of what it is. The way I see it is if RR didn’t think he’s ready for the sole GM role then he coulda made KS an assistant GM, or president of the draft, or whatever it takes regarding titles.

Pretty sure the majority of the fan base would take KS drafts over Mayhew’s any day of the week. The fact that we’re probably going to lose him is inconceivableView attachment 5148

But GM is not only drafting players... if Kyle Smith has proven he can't do the rest of the job effectively, how much is his player evaluation actually worth?

I'm only speculating in all of this and you may be 100% correct. That Ron's head is up his ass about Kyle Smith and he can't see that Kyle Smith is an up and coming GM type that can lead this franchise for the next 30 years.

Given what we've seen Ron do with the type of people he's brought in, I don't think it's that simple.

 

[Boone]

So, what if Kyle Smith is a disloyal, undermining ****? I’m not saying he is, I’m asking what IF he is? You still think Rivera should promote him again because he’s had some good drafts?

I’m going to absolutely push back on the idea that no matter what ‘losing’ Kyle Smith is ‘on Rivera’. How on earth can one conclude that without knowing any background? I don’t hear any one arguing he’s ready to be the new GM - so once you admit that is likely the truth, what exactly are we bitching about - that he’s not getting a 2nd new title in a year?

 

[DixieFlatline]

Who are the teams giving him interest? And what position? Right after the announcement of Hurney, I saw it reported that San Fran may have interest, but it was for VP of Player Personnel so a lateral move. If Kyle wants to leave for a lateral move, I have to believe it's only due to friction with people in the org. The question would be was there friction before the GM search or not? If it was before, then that could be just one of many reasons Rivera didn't interview him for the GM position. If it was after, then it would seem he may think more of himself than others. But no one really knows. We're just internet sleuthing here.

 

[Boone]

I guess if I had to boil my take down to one thing it would be this: Rivera has been a successful NFL head coach. He has, against all odds, already had what can only be characterized as a pretty successful start here in DC. Until all of the potentially disastrous moves he has made actually PROVE to be disastrous, he deserves the benefit of the doubt and our full support.

He's not responsible for 20+ years of unacceptable results prior to him coming here, or how damaged we are as a fanbase. He's really not.

 

[Win4us]

So, what if Kyle Smith is a disloyal, undermining ****? I’m not saying he is, I’m asking what IF he is? You still think Rivera should promote him again because he’s had some good drafts?

I’m going to absolutely push back on the idea that no matter what ‘losing’ Kyle Smith is ‘on Rivera’. How on earth can one conclude that without knowing any background? I don’t hear any one arguing he’s ready to be the new GM - so once you admit that is likely the truth, what exactly are we bitching about - that he’s not getting a 2nd new title in a year?

Bit of an extreme but okay if we’re going what if’s, how about Kyle is very loyal but actually disagreed with Ron on a team building style (fa vs draft). What if Ron didn’t like being 2nd guessed and hired Hurney & Mathew as ‘yes men’ for that sole reason? Is it better to have blind obedience to the coach instead of an honest outside opinion? I say absolutely not but that’s just me. And yes you learn to work with what you have, ESPECIALLY since he’s crushed the last few drafts, better than we’ve had since forever. I’ll say it again, if not a full GM promotion I would have leveled him up in a commensurate capacity with his value.

So if that’s the case of RR not allowing or respecting a 2nd point of view from KS, who exactly is it on then if KS leaves?

 

[SilentThreat]

Bit of an extreme but okay if we’re going what if’s, how about Kyle is very loyal but actually disagreed with Ron on a team building style (fa vs draft). What if Ron didn’t like being 2nd guessed and hired Hurney & Mathew as ‘yes men’ for that sole reason? Is it better to have blind obedience to the coach instead of an honest outside opinion? I say absolutely not but that’s just me. And yes you learn to work with what you have, ESPECIALLY since he’s crushed the last few drafts, better than we’ve had since forever. I’ll say it again, if not a full GM promotion I would have leveled him up in a commensurate capacity with his value.

So if that’s the case of RR not allowing or respecting a 2nd point of view from KS, who exactly is it on then if KS leaves?

Again, January 13th of 2020 he got promoted to Vice President of Player Personnel. He's been in that position for 1 year. What 'level up'? Executive VP? That's now Hurney who has been in the league since Smith was in elementary school. Hurney also said his title was not the priority and that his role is to help this franchise. Is he mad because Hurney got the Exec VP title? That seems to me more likely than Rivera looking at a guy he gave a promotion to 12 months ago and saying "you're not important anymore."

 

[Boone]

Bit of an extreme but okay if we’re going what if’s, how about Kyle is very loyal but actually disagreed with Ron on a team building style (fa vs draft). What if Ron didn’t like being 2nd guessed and hired Hurney & Mathew as ‘yes men’ for that sole reason? Is it better to have blind obedience to the coach instead of an honest outside opinion? I say absolutely not but that’s just me. And yes you learn to work with what you have, ESPECIALLY since he’s crushed the last few drafts, better than we’ve had since forever. I’ll say it again, if not a full GM promotion I would have leveled him up in a commensurate capacity with his value.

So if that’s the case of RR not allowing or respecting a 2nd point of view from KS, who exactly is it on then if KS leaves?

I gave that scenario as a pure hypothetical although there have been Twitter rumors that Smith was IDed as a front office leak. If true that would explain a lot. May be nothing but a rumor though. The stuff you are putting forward as an alternative scenario sounds like something Smith's agent is pushing to me. Why would Rivera retain and promote someone, then develop a grudge less than a year later because they differ on 'philosophy'? Setting that question aside though - Rivera is the defacto GM of this team - he was given final decision-making authority. So if Smith has his nose out of joint because his boss doesn't endorse HIS philosophy, that sounds like someone who doesn't understand their role to me.

 

[Bulldog]

But I think the point folks are making is not that Smith would not be in demand for a front office position, but that LA Rams, SF or other would basically be hiring him into the position he already has held in Washington this past year.

I don't see the Rams about to dump Les Snead or the 49ers dumping Jon Lynch to bring Smith on board and give him the keys to the Ferrari.

You see this kind of thing in business all the time. A guy (or gal) that is ambitious feels they are ready to quickly ascend the ladder and then become disenchanted when the higher ups choose to bring in a more seasoned candidate for the next level position.

That person then leaves the company and goes elsewhere.............................. only to end up in much the same position they just left.

But to them it is a breath of fresh air and the departure a boost of pride that they don't need their previous job to 'make it'.

How many NFL players have we seen proudly refuse a pay cut from say $15M to $10M and then go to another team where a guy like Belichick gives them $5M and a reduced role and they seem happy with that

 

[SilentThreat]

Kyle Smith takes same title with the Falcons




we didnt even hear of him getting interviewed...

This screams to me that he wanted out, not that Rivera wanted to get rid of him.

My OPINION here is that he saw GM was not a title he wanted here as last offseason went on and that's why the dynamic between him and Rivera changed. He told Rivera he wanted out... and Rivera didn't stand in his way.

Another wrinkle here:

Arthur Smith is the new HC of the Falcons... his father is Fred Smith... Minority Owner of the Washington Football Team. You wonder if there was some sort of a connection there and if Kyle Smith was always planning on leaving, once Arthur Smith got a gig.

 

[Boone]

I'm betting that if we do 'hear' what injustices drove all this, it won't come from Rivera or Washington, it will come from Smith or his agent. Rivera will just compliment Smith and wish him luck in his new role.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

for all those who seem to keep on saying, Ron just wanted experience, and that this was handled perfectly, how do you explain interviewing a direct report of Kyle's for a position you were not interviewing him for? That definitely seems wrong, and sends a clear message to me.

ALSO, from WaPost - this is what I was worried about:

Washington also parted with three scouts, according to people with knowledge of the situation — director of pro personnel/advance coordinator Jeff Scott, national scout Cole Spencer and personnel coordinator/pro scout Brian Zeches — only months away from the draft and free agency.
Washington’s new front office is facing an important offseason, starting at quarterback
Smith’s exit caps a bizarre year that began with his promotion to VP and ended with confusion and speculation about his future in Washington. He was not among the six known candidates to interview for Washington’s general manager job, but Eric Stokes, who reports to Smith as director of pro personnel, was.

**
When things are trending well in a department, stability is better than a lot of upheaval. This is not a good idea after you had some success in the draft. <-- that seems like the logical conclusion.

 

[SilentThreat]

for all those who seem to keep on saying, Ron just wanted experience, and that this was handled perfectly, how do you explain interviewing a direct report of Kyle's for a position you were not interviewing him for? That definitely seems wrong, and sends a clear message to me.


ALSO, from WaPost - this is what I was worried about:

Washington also parted with three scouts, according to people with knowledge of the situation — director of pro personnel/advance coordinator Jeff Scott, national scout Cole Spencer and personnel coordinator/pro scout Brian Zeches — only months away from the draft and free agency.
Washington’s new front office is facing an important offseason, starting at quarterback
Smith’s exit caps a bizarre year that began with his promotion to VP and ended with confusion and speculation about his future in Washington. He was not among the six known candidates to interview for Washington’s general manager job, but Eric Stokes, who reports to Smith as director of pro personnel, was.

**
When things are trending well in a department, stability is better than a lot of upheaval. This is not a good idea after you had some success in the draft. <-- that seems like the logical conclusion.

My opinion here

If Kyle Smith started working with Rivera and it was clear that the General Manager here is not going to be your traditional GM role and Smith decided a while ago that he was not interested being the GM of the WFT.

Another possibility is that Smith is not what us as fans all think he is. A good dude. I don't know him, I'm only speculating when I say that he's a good guy and could be a long term GM. For all we know Rivera got into the building with him, promoted him to keep him in house, and over the last 12 months since that day he's realized that Smith just ain't it. He could be a total asshole. Kyle Smith got promoted exactly 2 weeks after Rivera got named Head Coach. Kyle Smith COULD also mimic the culture of the previous regime, and that became clear as the year went on?


There are A LOT of factors, and the only truth to this point is that neither Smith OR Rivera have said anything. Smith took a lateral position in Atlanta, so clearly he did not want to be here. To my knowledge he was not let go... it was reported that they're moving on. That doesn't mean fired, it could just as easily mean Smith said "I'm out."

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

My opinion here

If Kyle Smith started working with Rivera and it was clear that the General Manager here is not going to be your traditional GM role and Smith decided a while ago that he was not interested being the GM of the WFT.

Another possibility is that Smith is not what us as fans all think he is. A good dude. I don't know him, I'm only speculating when I say that he's a good guy and could be a long term GM. For all we know Rivera got into the building with him, promoted him to keep him in house, and over the last 12 months since that day he's realized that Smith just ain't it. He could be a total asshole. Kyle Smith got promoted exactly 2 weeks after Rivera got named Head Coach. Kyle Smith COULD also mimic the culture of the previous regime, and that became clear as the year went on?


There are A LOT of factors, and the only truth to this point is that neither Smith OR Rivera have said anything. Smith took a lateral position in Atlanta, so clearly he did not want to be here. To my knowledge he was not let go... it was reported that they're moving on. That doesn't mean fired, it could just as easily mean Smith said "I'm out."

I understand we are dealing in conjecture, but bear in mind, there ARE observables:
- people who DO know some of the inner workings, thought he had value (Rams, SF were reportedly interested, but there have been reports of MANY teams being interested)
- he did NOT have an agent until the intervew process was WELL underway. Do you know how uncommon that generally is? Most of these guys have agents looking out for them if they have ANY idea of leaving. That is a pretty good indicator that what rubbed him the wrong way happened VERY recently. In fact, the agent report occurred pretty soon after it was said that Stokes was interviewed but he was not
- the last two drafts, Ron and Kyle have both indicated in interviews, Kyle had a LOT of control over. I mean, that is also clear by title / role and the lack of GM.

So my problem here is very simple. I think it's pretty clear we lost a talented individual, a young guy, and I don't think he was simply looking for a way out (as evidenced by him not having an agent until like a month ago or something). Worse still, we are losing OTHER key people in the personnel department, soon to be replaced by people that the Marties like/prefer. My problem again, is, we had success doing things that are HARD for ANY team to do. We just had what I view as maybe an unforced error in that part of the organization. It feels like more bad decision making out of Ashburn unfortunately.

That is how I read the observables on this. I totally accept Kyle may have some attitude, and I know that reports say he spoke up against going FA too much now and differed with Ron on that. That runs very interestingly contrary to recent reports that "All three are on the same page" (Marties + Ron). I know from experience, I think most of us do - contrary voices have a LOT of value, especially when they have been proven right in similar decisions. I'm not saying he was run out, but I think this was not handled well. Just my read here.

As an aside, I am not thrilled that Scott Turner stays after leading the 30th ranked offense in my opinion poorly, and Kyle leaves after having success. Just looking at the net effects, it seems like a net negative there.

 

[Bulldog]

That's one reason Ron Rivera wants to address the quarterback position aggressively, and not necessarily do what Kyle Smith would want - draft a qb at #19 or in the second round and spend 3-5 years developing him.

The offense was ranked near the bottom but when you start 4 quarterbacks in a league year and still manage to make the playoffs that's quite a remarkable feat.

The Eagles only started TWO the entire season and they only won 4 games and finished in last place.

From a philosophical standpoint, coach-centric systems almost always go for the QB first or when they are most able to.

The traditional GMs I have seen may not have a top 15 quarterback on the team, but will decide based upon the draft board to simply select a safety or tight end and wait another year or two to make a qb pick.

What has changed is the NFL. Bobby Beathard never used a #1 or #2 pick he had on a quarterback from 1979 to 1988 when he was in charge of the draft. That would be unheard of today.

With the rules changes and the salary cap the idea of having a top 10 defense and a HOF laden offensive line leading the way for a career middling quarterback to win a Super Bowl is IMO over.

Reid understands that. Pete Carroll understands that. Belichick understands that. Rivera now that we have seen him I think understands the league to be that way also.

The only thing that kept Belichick from having to make a major move at QB was the fact Tom Brady landed in his lap in the 6th round and quickly established himself so that by Year 3 Tom had already won a Super Bowl and the team was set.

Given how mediocre Belichick's last 2-3 drafts have been and the fact he himself passed on Brady for 5 rounds to me says that NE got lucky there.

Reid drafted McNabb #2 overall and then in KC traded for the 29 year old Smith for two #2 picks. He then drafted Mahomes #10 overall.

So, the draft capital with Andy was spent on the qb position.

Washington in past years blew high picks on quarterbacks in Ramsey, Campbell, Griffin and Haskins.

But the INTENT of the team, ie to recognize the importance of addressing the qb position, was there albeit with dreadful results on the field.

If Kyle Smith was happy to go into the draft in April and roll the dice on who would be available with the #19 pick and SEE if a capable qb prospect was there, if that prospect wasn't it didn't give Rivera much wiggle room to improve the position before the start of camp.

That would jeopardize the 2021 season fielding the same cast of characters (minus Haskins) we had in 2020 when we finished #30 overall.

 

[SilentThreat]

I understand we are dealing in conjecture, but bear in mind, there ARE observables:
- people who DO know some of the inner workings, thought he had value (Rams, SF were reportedly interested, but there have been reports of MANY teams being interested)
- he did NOT have an agent until the intervew process was WELL underway. Do you know how uncommon that generally is? Most of these guys have agents looking out for them if they have ANY idea of leaving. That is a pretty good indicator that what rubbed him the wrong way happened VERY recently. In fact, the agent report occurred pretty soon after it was said that Stokes was interviewed but he was not
- the last two drafts, Ron and Kyle have both indicated in interviews, Kyle had a LOT of control over. I mean, that is also clear by title / role and the lack of GM.

So my problem here is very simple. I think it's pretty clear we lost a talented individual, a young guy, and I don't think he was simply looking for a way out (as evidenced by him not having an agent until like a month ago or something). Worse still, we are losing OTHER key people in the personnel department, soon to be replaced by people that the Marties like/prefer. My problem again, is, we had success doing things that are HARD for ANY team to do. We just had what I view as maybe an unforced error in that part of the organization. It feels like more bad decision making out of Ashburn unfortunately.

That is how I read the observables on this. I totally accept Kyle may have some attitude, and I know that reports say he spoke up against going FA too much now and differed with Ron on that. That runs very interestingly contrary to recent reports that "All three are on the same page" (Marties + Ron). I know from experience, I think most of us do - contrary voices have a LOT of value, especially when they have been proven right in similar decisions. I'm not saying he was run out, but I think this was not handled well. Just my read here.

As an aside, I am not thrilled that Scott Turner stays after leading the 30th ranked offense in my opinion poorly, and Kyle leaves after having success. Just looking at the net effects, it seems like a net negative there.

That's all fair, and I was just providing a possibility.

Make no mistake, I DID NOT want to see Kyle Smith leave... I wanted him to be our next GM. I really like his talent evaluation ability (from what we can see). I also am HOPING that Rivera is not surrounding himself with yes-men. It's possible that he is and that would be bad, just don't want to make that declaration... yet


I can't completely hold this season against Scott Turner. As Bulldog just stated, we started 4 QBs including a shell of himself in Alex Smith and a poor QB in Dwayne Haskins. I had my qualms with some of Scott Turner but i don't think there is any mistake that Taylor Heinicke came in and looked as effective as a QB as you can expect. You can go back and watch the highlights from the game vs TB and see AT LEAST 6 plays that McKissic or Gibson are OPEN and Heinicke doesn't check it down. He instead breaks the pocket and makes a bigger play. Had we been able to run the offense for 16 games that we ran against TB I think the offensive numbers look a lot different. I love Alex Smith but He's also not going to be able to do what Allen / Heinicke can do and the offense is effected that way.

When was the last time we had 3 players with 1000 yards on the season? JD McKissic was 46 yards shy of 1000 total and he would have been the 3rd along side Terry McLaurin and Antonio Gibson.