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Front Office Hires - Love them or hate them?

Mayhew and Hurney Hires - Love them or hate them?

  • Love it!

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Hate it!

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Trust but verify

    Votes: 9 75.0%
  • Want to have Kyle Allen's baby

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12

Boone

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Let's take a vote...

Do you love or hate the recent hiring of Martin Mayhew and Marty Hurney as GM and front office executive>
 
This is definitely trust but verify.

Jerry Richardson meddled in front office and personnel at times in Carolina, often to the detriment of the team. Hurney worked in that vortex. The Panthers drafted some core players under Hurney that went on to form the team that went to the Super Bowl in 2015. But Gettleman gets credit for that.

The three best players on that team were Cam Newton, Luke Kuechly, and Thomas Davis and all three were Hurney picks.

Mayhew also made some good picks but also had a couple of D level drafts. Again, he was working for an ownership group in the Fords that have failed to provide the on field financial resources to retain talent and add to it in free agency over time.
 
The job Rivera did in 2020 with our team earns him the benefit of the doubt. You have to accept that he wants to surround himself with people he trusts. At the same time, it is understandable why he would want to rid himself of people in the organization who were connected in some way, shape, or form to Bruce Allen and everything that went on in our circus prior to his arrival.
 
I didn't vote because I am meh about it all.

He brought a lot of his friends from Cakalaki up with him, but some were winners.

I dont like that Kyle is gone, but maybe Mayhew is good for us.

I will see how they handle free agency and the draft before I move to "trust but verify".
 
It could work out, sure, but I don't see the logic in hiring guys with what look to me like average resumes overall, when you just had a couple of pretty solid drafts for the first time in a LONG time. Something was working, then you shake it up? Potentially a larger shakeup than what we think, if Kyle leaves and takes some of the scouting guys, which seems likely to me. No, I don't see this as a good thing. HATE is a strong word, I wouldn't use that, but at least he should have been looking at guys with a better performance record if you are going to shake up something that to my eye seemed to have success.
 
Rivera said from Day 1 that the team was going to select Chase Young. That was IMO largely HIS belief of the right move based on how the players graded out. Kyle Smith didn't have to spoon feed him that one.

You have to give the 'team' credit for a number of these selections and free agents that made the team better. Kyle Smith didn't make every good move or acquire every value player on this squad by himself, especially in 2020.

The TE coach that came with Rivera to Washington was the one that advised signing Logan Thomas after professionally scouting him.

When Kendall Fuller's agent reached out it was Rivera that quickly scooped him up in free agency to bring him back to Washington.

What's really funny to me is so many fans here are 'where's the pedigree' on every signing and hire. Martin Mayhew didn't win a Super Bowl in Detroit. So what? Who has?

In sports the context is often a key determining factor in success or failure. Joe Torre was a 'losing' manager in Atlanta and NY Mets before he joined the Yankees - now he is a Hall of Fame manager.

In the NFL, at one point Belichick was fired from Cleveland and George Young of the Giants famously said Belichick lacked the temperament to be a good head coach.

Andy Reid for years was considered to be a good coach that couldn't win big games.

It's amazing how all of that is forgotten.

Past in many cases is not prologue. There is nothing saying that because Rivera ONLY took the Panthers to one Super Bowl appearance in Carolina that when all is said and done he can't do more here with the people he wants in the various supporting roles.

Those of you that are waiting for a 100% guaranteed, no questions asked franchise changing GM/coach that is going to come here reincarnate the 1980's have to get your heads out of your asses.
 
The ultimate irony is that we are supposed to be outraged that Rivera is not handing full control of our franchise's future to Kyle Smith who has no experience of any kind as a top executive, and the fact that he didn't is supposed to be some disaster from which we will never recover.
 
The ultimate irony is that we are supposed to be outraged that Rivera is not handing full control of our franchise's future to Kyle Smith who has no experience of any kind as a top executive, and the fact that he didn't is supposed to be some disaster from which we will never recover.


I'm as big a Kyle Smith guy as there is, been wanting to groom him for a few years now, and I will say this movement that letting Smith out of the building is a travesty is a hot take. Smith was not ready to be a GM. He's got NO known experience outside of player evaluation. When Allen was here, Smith was in charge of College scouting and Schaeffer handled the contracts. When Rivera took over Rob Rodgers took over the cap control, so to this point Smith hasn't appears to have not even negotiated a contract.

Kyle Smith is an up and coming front office guy but he's not there yet. To this point I dont think anyone who had a GM opening this past offseason even showed interest, and there were 7 open GM positions if you include ours. He's 36 years old and his entire career has been developed in what most of the world views as the most toxic and destructive franchise in professional sports. His link to Snyder and Allen, as well as the fact that Alex Santos was his boss, likely gives most teams and owners pause to even consider him.

I would love for Smith to be the GM of the future for the next 30 years, but how bad could it possibly go over the next 3-5 years if he's not really ready?
 
I'm just starting to get the vibe that to the extent there is an issue here, it's primarily that Smith may feel he has 'earned' the job and is somehow being passed over or disrespected by not having it handed to him. The other possibility, which I don't discount, is that Smith didn't expect to be promoted to GM and knows he's not yet ready, and is perfectly happy where he is. I know that most 'in the know' media types such as John Keim are on record as believing 'Smith is gone', but we've seen numerous times where that kind of conventional wisdom is just wrong. I think chances are, he will move on. But we will see.
 
All I will say is ........ I don't know enough to even begin to analyze these decisions, I've hired rock stars from other companies who fell flat on their face and hired marginal talent who turned into rock stars.....at the end of it all.....can't always predict a result
 
Well, no matter how the team approaches the draft my one hope for 2021 and beyond is that while we are rebuilding this squad we stay away from taking early flyers on injured players who are on crutches, facing or have come off major surgery which potentially compromises their future durability.

We simply can't afford to blow picks on guys like Bryce Love and Derrius Guice who sustained major injuries in college and play speed/skill positions that project to the NFL, especially at running back - the position with the shortest average career tenure in the league.

Winning teams that finish 12-4 or 13-3 and go to the Super Bowl are able to take these kinds of flyers because they only have a few spots that come available and they have more talent across the board. We don't and have to treat each pick as if it is important and can't simply be gambled away on long-shots.
 
Well, no matter how the team approaches the draft my one hope for 2021 and beyond is that while we are rebuilding this squad we stay away from taking early flyers on injured players who are on crutches, facing or have come off major surgery which potentially compromises their future durability.

We simply can't afford to blow picks on guys like Bryce Love and Derrius Guice who sustained major injuries in college and play speed/skill positions that project to the NFL, especially at running back - the position with the shortest average career tenure in the league.

Winning teams that finish 12-4 or 13-3 and go to the Super Bowl are able to take these kinds of flyers because they only have a few spots that come available and they have more talent across the board. We don't and have to treat each pick as if it is important and can't simply be gambled away on long-shots.


You realize Allen fell because of rumors of arthritis, and Sweat fell because of concerns about a potential heart condition..

Injuries happen, and it's up to the evaluators to make call. Just because there are concerns doesn't mean the player cannot be get it done...
 
Smith was not ready to be a GM.
"Sean McVay's not ready to be a head coach...too young"- most of this fan base

"John Schneider is an up and comer but he's a Marty guy. Who cares if he goes to Seattle"

The shiny object in the distance looks better than growing talent here at home.- Redskins team building strategy for 25 years.

Wash,Rinse, Repeat
 
"Sean McVay's not ready to be a head coach...too young"- most of this fan base

"John Schneider is an up and comer but he's a Marty guy. Who cares if he goes to Seattle"

The shiny object in the distance looks better than growing talent here at home.- Redskins team building strategy for 25 years.

Wash,Rinse, Repeat


HC is a lot different than GM.

And for the record I wanted McVay too, problem was not shiny object in the distance, it was Gruden being the H C.

We also can't hold this management team responsible for past management team's mistakes. Just because they work in the same building does not mean they carry on a trend. Snyder likely had nothing to do with either McVay or Kyle Smith not getting chosen. Rivera is entering his 2nd season as the decision maker so that 23 years before he got here are in the past.


The narrative that we're the 'same ol' Redskins' is a tired and lazy argument and complaint. It's not the same people making the decisions so to act like are some how connected is just flat out false. Rivera did not let McVay walk out the door in favor of Gruden, he didnt draft Heath Shuler, and he didnt trade the franchise for RG3... so If he chooses to move on from Smith, if he drafts a QB in the first round, or if he trades away future picks for a QB, then those moves have to be viewed in a vacuum and not written off as a track record. It's not fair to him and his front office.
 
If you will notice the GM of the Rams, Les Snead, and the GM of the 49ers, Jon Lynch, are both in their 50's.

So, while there are coaches that trend younger - unlike baseball you don't see too many 35 year old GM's in the NFL.

Smith was the Director of College Scouting here and then VP for Player Personnel for Ron for 1 year.

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I was building my resume I very rarely got a second promotion that quickly after the first, unless someone else departed where I was working and I had the chance to prove myself in a 'stretch' assignment.

Smith to date has no record making trades in the NFL, he has no experience negotiating contracts or managing the interplay between salary cap and roster composition, nor does he have much if any experience dealing with the media.

In other words, he has learned about 50% of the job most GMs perform for their organizations.

But he has experience mocking the draft with the scouts and help setting the final board for the War Room picks.

Sounds like a VP of Player Personnel to me.

As a boss of mine used to say, don't ask for more until you have gone out of your way to DO MORE.
 
The who 'controversy' is manufactured. They clearly value Smith - that's why they kept him after cleaning house and promoted him. If he's not ready, he's not ready. He can either pout, or get to work and get himself be ready.

The fact that no other team, not even the one's with key players who personally know him, pines to make him their GM - that's obviously for a reason. The same reason Rivera didn't make him GM. He is not ready.
 
Smith is quite reasonably not ready to be a GM. Talent evaluation; seemingly absolutely yes. Other aspects of the job, seemingly not.

On the other hand, we were obviously willing and able to be creative making up job titles so Marty/Martin could hop on the bus. And we/Rivera seemingly made no effort to keep Smith in a mildly elevated talent evaluation role (give the guy a raise, doesn't count against the salary cap). Was that a mistake? Kinda seems that way to me, but none of us really has enough information to know.
 
Smith is quite reasonably not ready to be a GM. Talent evaluation; seemingly absolutely yes. Other aspects of the job, seemingly not.

On the other hand, we were obviously willing and able to be creative making up job titles so Marty/Martin could hop on the bus. And we/Rivera seemingly made no effort to keep Smith in a mildly elevated talent evaluation role (give the guy a raise, doesn't count against the salary cap). Was that a mistake? Kinda seems that way to me, but none of us really has enough information to know.

but he JUST got a raise and title promotion last offseason. He went from Director of College Scouting to Vice President of Player Personnel.
 




The tidbits I’ve seen so far is Kyle & Ron are at odds on roster building. Kyle wanting to draft and Ron wants a FA spending spree.

For those saying Kyle never got a look from anyone else, it may be because other teams didn’t think he’d be available. SanFran, Green Bay & the Rams are already in pursuit of his services now.

it may be a new regime with RR, but letting young talent in the front office get away is a redskin tradition
 
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The tidbits I’ve seen so far is Kyle & Ron are at odds on roster building. Kyle wanting to draft and Ron wants a FA spending spree.

For those saying Kyle never got a look it may be because teams didn’t think he’d be available. SanFran & the Rams are already in pursuit of his services.

it may be a new regime with RR but letting young talent in the front office get away is a redskin tradition.



Including us there were 7 teams that had vacant GM titles this offseason. Kyle Smith interviewed for 0 of them.


He did not need to be available in order to interview for those positions as they're a promotion to GM and we would not be able to 'block.'


As I've stated elsewhere, nothing we've seen happen under the management of Rivera has been 'leaked' either. In fact it's been the opposite more often than not. Rumors leading up to the playoff game were that Rivera and Co were encouraged by Alex Smith's progression.... turns out he had almost no chance of starting. Marty Hurney was hired and everyone went running with GM title... turns out it was never his title to begin with, and he never had his heart set on it anyway. It could come to fruition that Smith is gone, but to this point it's been all speculation as best as I can tell.

To take it a step further, it doesn't take a lot to look at this team, the cap dropping, the fact that we have a lot of cap space, a down division that can be had for year, and make the reasonable assessment that some relatively big spending in free agency this year could take us to a level of contention we haven't seen in 30 years... and with the cap dropping there will be some valuable players available that would not normally find themselves looking for a job. I am all for building through the draft but we also have to weigh out the idea of striking while the iron is hot. Philly is in so much cap trouble they might as well forfeit their season, Dallas is a shell of itself without Dak and it's hard to imagine they can afford him, and the Giants are at a crossroads on determining whether they hitch the wagons to Jones long term or not. The NFC East is wide open and as far as roster makeups you can say Washington is set up as well, or better, than anyone else.
 

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