ESPN: Shanahan was ready to quit in '12

[DieselPwr44]

The Detriot Lions were far worse off than we were when they finally dumped Matt Millen. Now they are a solid team with potential. They have surpassed us in talent and respectability and they did it in only 3 years. Not great, but they are playing for their division again this year.

It's taken Mayhew and Schwartz five years.

2009: 2-14
2010: 6-10
2011: playoffs
2012: 4-12
2013: competing for their division.

If they were in Redskinsland, the media and fanbase runs that staff off after 2012 and Schwartz is looking for work.

 

[Henry]

The Detriot Lions were far worse off than we were when they finally dumped Matt Millen. Now they are a solid team with potential. They have surpassed us in talent and respectability and they did it in only 3 years. Not great, but they are playing for their division again this year.

The Lions are an interesting example to use. Now, I'm not saying we should keep Shanahan or that he hasn't made huge mistakes or that things are going to be ok or anything else. But when you look at the Lions since Millen left:

2009: 2-14
2010: 6-10
2011: 10-6
2012: 4-12
2013: 7-6

and us since Vinnie left,
2010: 6-10
2011: 5-11
2012: 10-6
2013: 3-10

... the first four years are not that different. Now, after a huge setback in year four they stayed the course and it seems to be working out for them. Just an observation.

EDIT: Jinx!

 

[Elephant]

It's taken Mayhew and Schwartz five years.

2009: 2-14
2010: 6-10
2011: playoffs
2012: 4-12
2013: competing for their division.

If they were in Redskinsland, the media and fanbase runs that staff off after 2012 and Schwartz is looking for work.

3rd year in playoffs, last year injury ridden, this year probable division winners. Respectable? OK, maybe that was exaggerating, but they are not the laughing stock we are.

 

[Elephant]

The Lions are an interesting example to use. Now, I'm not saying we should keep Shanahan or that he hasn't made huge mistakes or that things are going to be ok or anything else. But when you look at the Lions since Millen left:

2009: 2-14
2010: 6-10
2011: 10-6
2012: 4-12
2013: 7-6

and us since Vinnie left,
2010: 6-10
2011: 5-11
2012: 10-6
2013: 3-10

... the first four years are not that different. Now, after a huge setback in year four they stayed the course and it seems to be working out for them. Just an observation.

EDIT: Jinx!

But look at the reasons for the setbacks...

 

[Boone]

3rd year in playoffs, last year injury ridden, this year probable division winners. Respectable? OK, maybe that was exaggerating, but they are not the laughing stock we are.

They were in 2012. That was a bad example to use Brian. It actually serves the argument to stay the course with Shanahan.

 

[riggins44]

One thing I really despise is hearing McNabb talk about the mess in Washington. You can hear the smugness in his tweets.

 

[Cycleans]

Lots of coaches getting better results with lesser talent. I get it we aren't a playoff team but we can't beat anyone or even contend in our pitiful division

And I don't believe any competent GM could turn around a roster in 4 yrs. that has been mismanaged for 15 years, especially when when you've had a lockout and 18 million chopped off your cap in three out of four years here.

4 yrs here would be a hard pull even if you got 4 normal offseasons.

To illustrate ... we once went 20 years without spending ONE draft pick in rounds 1-3 on a DE.

Orakpo broke that string and Cerrato tried his best to give up picks to jump two spots to get him.

Shanny's not perfect, but he's been given horse apples and told to make chicken salad.

 

[Bulldog]

Shanahan knew he was going to be the coach here midway through the 2009 season. He sat and watched the team play out the last 7 or 8 games of the season and then decided for a last place team that had the NFL's oldest roster that Step 1 in getting the Redskins turned around was to trade high picks for 34 year old Donovan McNabb. He then made a trade for 29-30 year old Jamaal Brown, who had missed the entire 2009 season with a chronic hip problem. He also installed a 3-4 without an adequate DL or linebacking corps, having to sign 32 year old DT Maake Kemoeatu whose career was all but over due to injuries and age and having to play Andre Carter and Lorenzo Alexander at outside linebacker.

Yeah, that sounded like a guy with a great plan for building a dynasty team

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

The Lions are an interesting example to use. Now, I'm not saying we should keep Shanahan or that he hasn't made huge mistakes or that things are going to be ok or anything else. But when you look at the Lions since Millen left:

2009: 2-14
2010: 6-10
2011: 10-6
2012: 4-12
2013: 7-6

and us since Vinnie left,
2010: 6-10
2011: 5-11
2012: 10-6
2013: 3-10

... the first four years are not that different. Now, after a huge setback in year four they stayed the course and it seems to be working out for them. Just an observation.

EDIT: Jinx!

The only thing is they are in a position now to be decent with a lot of young talent and depth at several key positions, they can afford to go best player available and even take chances. if one does a comparison of our roster with their we have better outside linebackers and a slightly better QB and RB starting, but at almost every other spot they are not just better than us, but a LOT better. thats the indictment of shanny, he has had 4 seasons to rebuild this team and is nowhere close. in fact Ill be amazed if the defence is even a middle of the pack defence next season.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

and one could easily argue that the guys taking over the lions had way less to work with than shanny did.

 

[SkinsFTW]

Once again I bring up the ugly truth that Shanahan the coach was brought down most by Shanahan the GM.

And who didn't expect this to be the case?

 

[McD5]

What everyone forgets is how desperate we were to hire any kind of NFL legitimate coach. Shanny was needy...and so were we.

Who in his right mind would come to work for Dan Snyder? We are screwed as long as this guy owns this team.

So what's the solution that would encourage him to sell the team?

A few years ago, I spent two days contacting aviation businesses and pilots in the DMV, to try and fly a "Please Fire Vinny" banner over FedEx during game time. I was willing to pay for it myself, but I was unsuccessful. After 9/11, all but one business I spoke with said that they couldn't get over the stadium. One guy said he'd try, but couldn't promise anything.

I wonder how much a half page, or even a full page ad in the Post would cost. Just a simple, "For the fans, please sell the team" approach. Something classy.

I'm willing to call the Post tomorrow to find out.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

I think Snyder has changed a lot and I think a lot of coaches and gms would love to work for a guy who doesnt care about how much things cost. we will see what happens once we get rid of shamahan

 

[Ax]

Yeah, all this Snyder envy does is show how simple and small minded the people exercising it are.

 

[tshile]

15 years of Snyder and the people that don't like him and want him gone are simple and small minded.

l o ****ing l

 

[Ax]

No, not all of them. Just the ones who blindly believe everything bad is his fault. And that if he sold the team everything would magically go back to what it was before he bought the team.

Which, BTW, was John Kent Cooke, Norv Turner, and a losing franchise, with little hope in sight.

Google our history. You'll find the Gibbs & Allen eras the exceptions, not the rule.

Using Dan Snyder as the "go to" cause for everything wrong with the franchise is lazy, simple minded, and small.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

No, not all of them. Just the ones who blindly believe everything bad is his fault. And that if he sold the team everything would magically go back to what it was before he bought the team.

Which, BTW, was John Kent Cooke, Norv Turner, and a losing franchise, with little hope in sight.

Google our history. You'll find the Gibbs & Allen eras the exceptions, not the rule.

Using Dan Snyder as the "go to" cause for everything wrong with the franchise is lazy, simple minded, and small.

Norv Turner, the only coach he did NOT hire, is the winningest coach in Snyder's tenure as owner. Let that sink in. There's one common denominator throughout all the struggles over the years, and it ain't a head coach.

Occam's Razor, Ax. Call me simple minded, lazy and small all you want (that last one is kind of a compliment for a big guy, so I'll take it), but its obvious where the problem is to some of us. Snyder is hated by the majority of fans, the majority of NFL owners, and probably now a lot of coaches after the way he's handled them here (only one of 8 has left on good terms, but he still left early). Players are resentful of his relationship with his "chosen ones," but they will still come here for the big paychecks.

Even when he "steps away" from everything and lets the smart people run the team, he STILL has to be all buddy buddy with Griffin. I used to think Peter Angelos was the worst owner in sports, but Snyder blows him away. I'd probably take Jerry Jones over Snyder at this point, because at least he has shown a modicum of football intellect.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

Norv Turner, the only coach he did NOT hire, is the winningest coach in Snyder's tenure as owner. Let that sink in. There's one common denominator throughout all the struggles over the years, and it ain't a head coach.

Occam's Razor, Ax. Call me simple minded, lazy and small all you want (that last one is kind of a compliment for a big guy, so I'll take it), but its obvious where the problem is to some of us. Snyder is hated by the majority of fans, the majority of NFL owners, and probably now a lot of coaches after the way he's handled them here (only one of 8 has left on good terms, but he still left early). Players are resentful of his relationship with his "chosen ones," but they will still come here for the big paychecks.

Even when he "steps away" from everything and lets the smart people run the team, he STILL has to be all buddy buddy with Griffin. I used to think Peter Angelos was the worst owner in sports, but Snyder blows him away. I'd probably take Jerry Jones over Snyder at this point, because at least he has shown a modicum of football intellect.

I'm pretty sure Occam's Razor at this juncture would point to Shanahan, not Snyder. It's only by taking extraneous things and using confirmation bias that one can come to the conclusion of Snyder.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I'm pretty sure Occam's Razor at this juncture would point to Shanahan, not Snyder.

This franchise's problems over 15 years are all Shanahan's fault?

 

[SkinsFTW]

I think a lot of coaches and gms would love to work for a guy who doesnt care about how much things cost. we will see what happens once we get rid of shamahan

Including all the formerly great coaches looking for that final huge largest contract in league history coming here to underachieve, just like every other coach the past 13+ years. You know guys like Cowher, Gruden, hell maybe even Parcells would consider a 10th team, see this job as possible easy money. We'd all die for Cowhers first 10 years in Pittsburgh, when he didnt ever win a SB. Hell, we'd be satisfied with what Fassel did in NY. It's just not going to happen here unless there's a real GM bagging the groceries.

I mean imagine if we had a Beathard in his prime in 2004 to tell Gibbs no on Brunell and Campbell and Arch Deluxe, Duckett, and not giving away Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce along with that Portis trade.

Or the same with Shanahan when he refused to build for the future and blew a draft on McNugget and friends, then kept around a useless Haynesworth and paid his bonus or traded away 3 drafts for a QB that he had no intention of developing while there was one in the 2nd and 3rd already more prepared for the NFL?