ESPN Redskin Name Article

[Shi no Tenshi]

Right, but why do you need to prevent that? They are just words, after all.

Hey, most of us do lots of silly things to keep our jobs.

 

[tshile]

Right, but why do you need to prevent that? They are just words, after all.

I agree with your little troll lanky.

I insist the problem is not with me, but with the people that force companies to care about the stuff.

Another reason for the filter could be to cater to younger people who may wish to use the board; more specifically their parents that may care.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I agree with your little troll lanky.

I insist the problem is not with me, but with the people that force companies to care about the stuff.

Another reason for the filter could be to cater to younger people who may wish to use the board; more specifically their parents that may care.

Haha, in this scenario I like to think of it as devil's advocate, not trolling. I am trying to promote discussion, just not trying to flame. Apologies if it was perceived that way.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[fansince62]

Just a thought I had over the weekend: if words have no meaning other than what is behind them, and we shouldn't give them power, why do we have a filter here at all?

well...having learned this on the hard anvil of experience....BGO is a private community with the authority to set its own standards for acceptable behavior, information exchange, etc. ...

 

[fansince62]

well holy ****..look who it is!

welcome back, Kott...I mean Al!

thank you Sir! Life can take some wicked turns inside a year.

I trolled but just couldn't jump back in. BGO looks like its crusin in high style - so I finally caved to my inner demons!

Again...thank you for the kind welcome Big Mike. Greatly appreciated.

 

[tshile]

Haha, in this scenario I like to think of it as devil's advocate, not trolling. I am trying to promote discussion, just not trying to flame. Apologies if it was perceived that way.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

Oh no, not taken 'that way.' Troll was probably the wrong word to use I could tell you weren't subscribing to your post but trying to be sarcastic

oh and hi fansince62, good to see you back

 

[Goaldeje]

thank you Sir! Life can take some wicked turns inside a year.

I trolled but just couldn't jump back in. BGO looks like its crusin in high style - so I finally caved to my inner demons!

Again...thank you for the kind welcome Big Mike. Greatly appreciated.

Aha?????? Who??????



. Welcome home Al! I can genuinely say I've missed you my man! Good to see you around again!

 

[Lanky Livingston]

thank you Sir! Life can take some wicked turns inside a year.

I trolled but just couldn't jump back in. BGO looks like its crusin in high style - so I finally caved to my inner demons!

Again...thank you for the kind welcome Big Mike. Greatly appreciated.

Welcome back, Al.

 

[fansince62]

thanks all.

and tschille...liked your posts as Dr PC very much.

Hey Goal! Hope there's someone close to you teaching French by now.

Thanks for the gracious welcome Lanky.

hat can I say but...I was hangin on every move RGIII made.....and looping back to read how you fellas were absorbing the end to 18 years of constant U-turns. I'm already looking forward to the enxt season - and not scope-locked o the draft. very nice change of perspective...no?

 

[McD5]

Some may enjoy seeing this. It was a segment on ESPN's Outside The Lines.

[media]http://vimeo.com/60305403[/media]

Personally, I believe the name will change within the next three years.

 

[Boone]

Thanks for sharing MCD5. I have said repeatedly that I don't think the name will change. However, I'm beginning to wonder if I'm right. This kind of issue is all about political momentum. I have a lot of problems with the effort to change the name. My first objection is that this country is a representative democracy, not a socialist state. If there were a poll or vote of all US citizens of Native American descent that showed a majority found the name offensive, I would support a name change. Short of that, a native american lobbyist who finds the name an unspeakable offense, and claims to be speaking for all native americans has no more validity than my saying, as a white Redskins fan, that it is absolutely benign and if anything, a positive moniker.

It's going to be interesting to see how this evolves. But I am beginning to wonder if the momentum isn't going to inevitably force a name change, regardless of how Dan Snyder or Redskins fans feel about it. And let's say Snyder were to acquiesce and change the name to 'Skins'. Every human being uttering that new moniker is going to think 'Redskins'. Every fan is still going to refer to the team as 'the Redskins'. What's changed? I'm still thinking 'Redskin'. I'm still saying 'Redskins'. How is that better in any way? What have I accomplished by shortening it? Nothing.

It's sad, because the basic premise of democracy, that majority opinion rules, is under assault. The tyranny of the minority is real and it gets stronger every day.

 

[fansince62]

welllllll...if it ever came to that...I'd hoard Redskin jerseys, regalia, etc., and make a killing over the years... ...

we live in a victim culture....with no real solid ethical/moral foundation (a consequence of our "better informed", information age?). is anyone surprised? I'm thinking ahead to setting up a Vegas like wagering capability in which folks can lay down real $$$$ on the next slight of the day.

lesson? don't fight it. learn how to exploit it! everything is negotiable these days.

 

[McD5]

Boone, I really used to want to keep the name. Now, I really don't care either way. I do believe five things though:

1. If we were called the Whiteskins, this name would have been changed 50 years ago.

2. If we were called the Blackskins, this name would have been changed 50 years ago.

3. If we were called the Yellowskins, this name would have been changed 30 years ago.

4. The only reason this name still exists is because there are fewer native Americans than any of the groups above.

5. All it is going to take is one Fox Sunday pregame discussion of this topic, and it will be changed less than twelve months later.

 

[Boone]

You may be right. But the silly part is, NO ONE thinks about the color of a Native American's skin when they hear the term 'Redskins'. It's become the name of beloved NFL football team, and that's all it represents at this point. That's my issue with the whole discussion - it's not an 'epithet' to the vast majority (I'd guess upwards of 90%) of folks who hear or view the team name.

The 'offense' taken is largely manufactured.

Just my opinion. But I do believe there's enough rancor being created around it that eventually Snyder may be forced to change it. Btw - I thought it was notable that the piece you shared showcased two of Native American heritage who were vehemently opposed to the name, despite the fact that all efforts to determine whether the majority of Native Americans find it offensive have failed to identify a significant majority who are 'offended'.

I'm not sure your point holds water either. Is the reason the Redskins moniker hasn't long ago been changed due to a smaller populace of Native Americans? Or might it be because no one, in 100 years or more, has uttered the term 'Redskin' in a derogatory way to a Native American?

I think both are equally rational explanations. In other words, no one, save the politically correct obsessed, even views it as a derogatory term for a Native American. That's why it hasn't been changed to date

 

[McD5]

As usual Boone, you make some great points. And not any that I necessarily disagree with.

I believe that I fall into the category you describe here:

In other words, no one, save the politically correct obsessed, even views it as a derogatory term for a Native American.

But maybe I'm just a sheltered (on this topic) white guy who has never been to a reservation, and who truly has never had a Native American close friend, or who even knows a Native American--save those I have encountered on this site.

What I'm coming to find is that maybe it isn't just the PC police who take offense to this word. Take dictionary.com, for example. Here is their first definition:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Redskin?s=t

noun Slang: Often Disparaging and Offensive.
a North American Indian.
Origin:
1690–1700

an old-fashioned informal name, now considered taboo, for a Native American

It's the same on Webster's. Are both of those sources PC obsessed?

So maybe I have just been living under a rock on this topic, unaware of how offensive it may really be?

 

[Boone]

I can find a definition for dingleberry in the dictionary. It's offensive. But no one ever called me a dingleberry. The definition you listed said 'an old-fashioned name' - and that's the key. The modern meaning of 'Redskin' is 'member of a proud NFL football franchise in Washington DC'. It has no other meaning to the vast majority of Americans.

I've already said it...do a poll of Native Americans. If even a signficant % of them feel the name should be changed, then fine. But I will continue to believe this is just manufactured outrage until I see evidence to the contrary.

 

[McD5]

I support your poll idea, and would love to see a new one. I've seen previous polls saying that 75-90% of Native Americans have no problem with it at all.

But, my gut tells me that if I look at the next Native American I see, and call him a Redskin, that I am probably going to be in a fight pretty quickly.

 

[Boone]

I get your point - but the fact of the matter is, NO ONE in 50 years has likely called a Native American 'Redskin'. Why? Because it simply isn't a real racial epithet. That's the whole basis of my objection. The word '******' has incredibly powerful and negative connotations, not only because of the horrible history behind that word, but because even today, some use that word as the ugliest epithet they can think of. No such history exists for the term Redskin. For anyone to suggest the two words are anything like one another is not only ridiculous, it's intellectually dishonest.

The modern meaning of the word has no negative connotation for the vast majority.

If I were Daniel Snyder, I'd get rid of the Indian logo, and all evidence the name has any connotation to Native Americans, and publically declare the term 'Redskins' now describes the color of the team's jersey, and nothing more.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

As one who is of Norwegian ancestry, I should be offended at the portrayal of "Vikings" through their mascot. Too, I should be offended at the Capital One commercials that show Norwegians as barbaric pillagers who are mindless and ruthless.

Bah.

Hmmmm - had a thought here, but now I have a sudden urge to ransack the neighbor's home and steal their possessions.

 

[McD5]

That's a good compromise too. That way, everyone wins.