Economist: Republicans in Search of a Nominee

[servumtuum]

Smart a$$edness appreciated!

I do try, I really do. LOL!


There is one aspect of this that, if the GOP wants a realistic chance to defeat Obama, I believe needs to be kept in mind. Most presidential elections in recent years have been decided by the "independents-the "swing vote" if you will. Palin scared enough of them away from the McCain/Palin ticket, I think, to help swing things toward Obama. (That plus McCain wasn't exactly "inspiring" in a charismatic way) These independents are less identifiable as "ideological purists", they don't necessarily classify easily into a "politically correct" litmus test for the right or left, they are viewed as perhaps liberal on some issues, perhaps conservative on some, moderate on others. Alienating this group by strictly adhering to what is perceived as an ideological extreme carries great risk come November-they are repelled by stridency on both sides. It's the reaction of this group that produces the almost inevitable quick comeback in off-year elections in congress, think of it as a form of buyers remorse. They will be easily swayed into rejecting the GOP's presidential slate if the GOP takes a position and nominates a ticket too easily identifiable with extremist right-wing views and the Democrats will pound that perception home at every opportunity.

My mention of Olympia Snowe was indeed being sarcastic-but, in some ways, it makes sense. The Dems are probably salivating at the idea of Palin getting nominated-I think someone like Snowe would scare them to death.

 

[Sarge]

She was governor for all of two and half years, including the time she spent running for VP.

I wouldn't call that 'far more' experience than someone who will have been President for four years.



Why would you want to replace a disaster with another disaster? I'd rather have a viable alternative to Obama in '12.

Palin ain't it.

Two and a half years was two and a half years more experience than the street preacher had when he was elected. Perhaps in that that two and a half years she would have gained some wisdom that would have avoided the mistakes Obama has repeatedly made.

In addition, she's conservative, which means there probably would have been no TARP II, no "shovel ready jobs", no Obamacare that's going to bust the bank, no DADT, no not defending the laws of the land

Like I said, this is soooooo easy. Obama has been a complete failure except to the 20% of libs in the country.

All one has to do (aside from having a few million dollars) is point out hte multitude of mistakes Obama has made, the sheer awfulness of the Obama/Reid/ Pelosi trifecta and give a vision of America along the lines of what Reagan did and Obama goes down HARD in the election

 

[Henry]

Two and a half years was two and a half years more experience than the street preacher had when he was elected. Perhaps in that that two and a half years she would have gained some wisdom that would have avoided the mistakes Obama has repeatedly made.

In addition, she's conservative, which means there probably would have been no TARP II, no "shovel ready jobs", no Obamacare that's going to bust the bank, no DADT, no not defending the laws of the land

Like I said, this is soooooo easy. Obama has been a complete failure except to the 20% of libs in the country.

All one has to do (aside from having a few million dollars) is point out hte multitude of mistakes Obama has made, the sheer awfulness of the Obama/Reid/ Pelosi trifecta and give a vision of America along the lines of what Reagan did and Obama goes down HARD in the election

Hmmm ... I suspect if the GOP just clenches their fists, closes their eyes and screams 'we just hate Obama so MUCH!' they won't win this election. You may not wish it to be so, but Obama's approval rating is somewhere around 49-51%. If it stays that high, even if it drops 5% or so, his opponents will actually have to put forth a viable candidate.

Servuntuum gets it. Palin isn't that candidate.

 

[Goaldeje]

Hmmm ... I suspect if the GOP just clenches their fists, closes their eyes and screams 'we just hate Obama so MUCH!' they won't win this election. You may not wish it to be so, but Obama's approval rating is somewhere around 49-51%. If it stays that high, even if it drops 5% or so, his opponents will actually have to put forth a viable candidate.

Servuntuum gets it. Palin isn't that candidate.

Maybe if they do while also clicking their heels together?

FS and Sarge, you can debate all you want whether or not Palin would be an improvement over Obama or not. As stated before, I do not think so, personally. However, my thoughts, as well as your thoughts on the subject are largely irrelevant. What matters is whether or not she is electable. And the fact of the matter is that while many people in the far Right might vote for her, there are far more people in the middle of the spectrum who would have to do some serious drinking before they pulled that lever.

Doesn't really matter if she would do better than Obama. You can blame it on the liberal media if you like (that's what we call a preemptive strike, boys and girls), but the perception of Sarah Palin is that she is a moron. And as such, she is unelectable.

 

[Sarge]

Hmmm ... I suspect if the GOP just clenches their fists, closes their eyes and screams 'we just hate Obama so MUCH!' they won't win this election. You may not wish it to be so, but Obama's approval rating is somewhere around 49-51%. If it stays that high, even if it drops 5% or so, his opponents will actually have to put forth a viable candidate.

Servuntuum gets it. Palin isn't that candidate.

Maybe if they do while also clicking their heels together?

FS and Sarge, you can debate all you want whether or not Palin would be an improvement over Obama or not. As stated before, I do not think so, personally. However, my thoughts, as well as your thoughts on the subject are largely irrelevant. What matters is whether or not she is electable. And the fact of the matter is that while many people in the far Right might vote for her, there are far more people in the middle of the spectrum who would have to do some serious drinking before they pulled that lever.

Doesn't really matter if she would do better than Obama. You can blame it on the liberal media if you like (that's what we call a preemptive strike, boys and girls), but the perception of Sarah Palin is that she is a moron. And as such, she is unelectable.

All my right boot has to say is "Do you want four more years of this?". Or better yet, the old Democrat line "Are you better off than you were four years ago?"

Landslide

 

[fansince62]

Maybe if they do while also clicking their heels together?

FS and Sarge, you can debate all you want whether or not Palin would be an improvement over Obama or not. As stated before, I do not think so, personally. However, my thoughts, as well as your thoughts on the subject are largely irrelevant. What matters is whether or not she is electable. And the fact of the matter is that while many people in the far Right might vote for her, there are far more people in the middle of the spectrum who would have to do some serious drinking before they pulled that lever.

Doesn't really matter if she would do better than Obama. You can blame it on the liberal media if you like (that's what we call a preemptive strike, boys and girls), but the perception of Sarah Palin is that she is a moron. And as such, she is unelectable.

and two and a half years ago someone like you would be arguiing "no way an African American is elected in this cycle - too many right wing racists in the electorate". so I don't buy that outcome before the process argument. in the event......since...as voters...we're apparently in the buiness of merely replacing inter-changable morons (which Obama clealry has turned out to be)....where from here?

I see all of Palin's faults.....but I do like her courage. something none of these other clowns demonstrate as a reliable character trait.

 

[Goaldeje]

and two and a half years ago someone like you would be arguiing "no way an African American is elected in this cycle - too many right wing racists in the electorate". so I don't buy that outcome before the process argument. in the event......since...as voters...we're apparently in the buiness of merely replacing inter-changable morons (which Obama clealry has turned out to be)....where from here?

I see all of Palin's faults.....but I do like her courage. something none of these other clowns demonstrate as a reliable character trait.

Electing her for her courage makes as much sense as the people who elected Obama simply because he spoke well. There are better alternatives.

 

[fansince62]

Hmmm ... I suspect if the GOP just clenches their fists, closes their eyes and screams 'we just hate Obama so MUCH!' they won't win this election. You may not wish it to be so, but Obama's approval rating is somewhere around 49-51%. If it stays that high, even if it drops 5% or so, his opponents will actually have to put forth a viable candidate.

Servuntuum gets it. Palin isn't that candidate.

That just means Obama is likable...it does not mean folks enjoy/support consistent 10%+ unemployment, feckless foreign policy, constant "do as I say...not as I do" pontificating, etc., etc.

 

[fansince62]

Electing her for her courage makes as much sense as the people who elected Obama simply because he spoke well. There are better alternatives.

I get it...you have already made up your mind based on an orchestrated campaign to destroy this woman. I didn't say I was going to vote for her.....I said I recognize her courage as a singular attribute in a crowd of well.....male wussies.

we can get to your over-simplfied picture of this person some other time. would it make a difference if she was pro-Union, pro-redistribution, pro-Federally run Health Care, etc., etc.?

 

[Goaldeje]

Not quite sure how else to say this. My opinion of her is irrelevant. As is yours. You can continue to use the strawman argument all you want that I think poorly of her and have been duped by the sinister Tina Fey and others of her ilk.

The argument I am making is simply that most Americans have the view you believe I hold about Palin. Therefore, she is not electable. Talking about her courage in the face of adversity or her having more experience than Obama had when he took office is not going to change the fact that most Americans think she is stupid. Hot, but stupid. And therefore, unfit for the Presidency.

Whether or not that is true, how much of it is due to Tina Fey et all, and what I personally think of Ms. Palin is not what this discussion is about.

Perception is reality.

 

[fansince62]

Not quite sure how else to say this. My opinion of her is irrelevant. As is yours. You can continue to use the strawman argument all you want that I think poorly of her and have been duped by the sinister Tina Fey and others of her ilk.

The argument I am making is simply that most Americans have the view you believe I hold about Palin. Therefore, she is not electable. Talking about her courage in the face of adversity or her having more experience than Obama had when he took office is not going to change the fact that most Americans think she is stupid. Hot, but stupid. And therefore, unfit for the Presidency.

Whether or not that is true, how much of it is due to Tina Fey et all, and what I personally think of Ms. Palin is not what this discussion is about.

Perception is reality.

I get it. You buy into the politics of personal assasination, you have magical insight into how Americans will think a year down the road, you employ sexist language when it serves your purposes.......and believe electability is the rigteous path to walk when deciding who to vote for.

I'm not advocating anyone vote for her. I'm politley passing that your criteria (electability and whether the super-smart American electorate finds a candidate to be "stupid"), IMO....is spoonfed blather. why has so much energy been expended on destroying this person if whe is such a moron? what is the real threat that these assertions about stupidity truly mask?

at least cut the crap......it's not about Palin being a moron...she clearly isn't: she has put herself into a power position neither you nor I could achieve. to do that she had to plan, coordinate and execute. those are not inconsequential skills and they don't just fall into place by chance. nope...it's fear of what she represents and her willingness to hew to her principles. as always...it devolves to power and who wields it. in many respects...the same holds triue of Obama's opponents. that's the real energy behind the incessant Palin attacks.

 

[Goaldeje]

OK then. If you're gonna go with the personal attacks, I guess the discussion is over.

 

[Henry]

at least cut the crap......it's not about Palin being a moron...she clearly isn't: she has put herself into a power position neither you nor I could achieve. to do that she had to plan, coordinate and execute. those are not inconsequential skills and they don't just fall into place by chance.

The exact same argument was made about Obama. Exactly my point. Hell, just reread your post #34 to see how quickly you dismiss Obama's ability to maintain a decent approval rating. Making ones self popular does not make one qualified to be President, right?

nope...it's fear of what she represents and her willingness to hew to her principles. as always...it devolves to power and who wields it. in many respects...the same holds triue of Obama's opponents. that's the real energy behind the incessant Palin attacks.

I don't think that's it. Plenty of conservatives hold her principles and are far more electable.

You don't care that she has very limited experience because, darn it, you don't like the incumbent, she's got charisma and you like her politics. That sounds awfully familiar. All I'm saying is if you want to move away from amateurs in the White House, Palin is probably not your best choice. If you don't care about that you don't care about it. Shrug.

 

[Sarge]

So riddle me this boys and girls.

Why did the media go after Palin with such gusto? Why not the other republicans to the same degree? I mean granted, they made little innuendos about Romney and his mormanism (even though we had a far leftist muslim sympathizer running on the dem side of the ticket) but why go after Palin so viciously?

I'll tell you why. Because she was and still is a threat to them, and a serious one at that. If you can get past the Fargo voice, she expresses conservative ideas in a way that is not phony or made up, like some faux conservatives do now.

And as long as they perceive her as a threat, the media and Hollywood will keep at it, taking every opportunity to mock her slip ups and speeches even while having one of the worse public speakers in presidential history when he's not on his telebinky

Fortunately, most of the country has awoken to how badly they were snowed by the media last election.

Doom is in the box

 

[Henry]

Nevermind. Good luck with Palin. I'm not voting for her.

 

[Sarge]

Nevermind. Good luck with Palin. I'm not voting for her.

Oh, I never said I'd vote for her. Unless of course she turns out to be the nominee. I just think she's gotten a screw job from the media and the schreeching leftist mobs that hate her. They don't know why they hate her, they just do.

 

[Elephant]

Hmmm ... I suspect if the GOP just clenches their fists, closes their eyes and screams 'we just hate Obama so MUCH!' they won't win this election. You may not wish it to be so, but Obama's approval rating is somewhere around 49-51%. If it stays that high, even if it drops 5% or so, his opponents will actually have to put forth a viable candidate.

Servuntuum gets it. Palin isn't that candidate.

I quoted this to address you and Serv. Although Serv mentioned Olympia in jest, I understood it was to bring forward the reality that any candidate who is running for President has to concern themselves with the independents as they're called today, formerly known as Reagan Democrats. I just found it amusing that Olympia Snowe was the name he threw out.

As for the numbers, the numbers that Obama should be concerned with right now are from the latest Gallup poll. Among the independents Serv mentioned, his approval ratings have dropped to 38% with a disapproval at above 60%. Now other Presidents have had similar numbers at this stage and were re-elected, Clinton and Reagan both sat around 40-42% so we'll see how the next 2 years pan out.

Unfortunately, as much as I hate to say it, I think Obama gets re-elected. I think the best the GOP has to offer, Newt Gingrich, has too much baggage.

So riddle me this boys and girls.

Why did the media go after Palin with such gusto? Why not the other republicans to the same degree? I mean granted, they made little innuendos about Romney and his mormanism (even though we had a far leftist muslim sympathizer running on the dem side of the ticket) but why go after Palin so viciously?

I'll tell you why. Because she was and still is a threat to them, and a serious one at that. If you can get past the Fargo voice, she expresses conservative ideas in a way that is not phony or made up, like some faux conservatives do now.

And as long as they perceive her as a threat, the media and Hollywood will keep at it, taking every opportunity to mock her slip ups and speeches even while having one of the worse public speakers in presidential history when he's not on his telebinky

Fortunately, most of the country has awoken to how badly they were snowed by the media last election.

Doom is in the box

I don't think it is her charisma they are attacking Sarge, although that is certainly part of it. I think Mike hit the nail on the head. They are attacking her because she is just a confrontational figure. That is why I don't like her. It is always about a fight with her, and trust me, I am someone who loves a good fight.

Is she someone who threatens them? Probably. She should because she stands strong to her principals and those principles are foreign to most of those spineless dregs. The problem is she is too divisive! She would rather roll up the sleeves and fight then to sit down and discuss options. Her misunderstanding of compromise cost the GOP the seats in DE and NV in November. The seat in NV could have meant we never had to deal with Harry Reid again, ever! Instead, her my way or the highway attitude cost us 6 more years of that _____ (Insert your own word here for Harry Reid).

 

[Henry]

Elephant I don't disagree with anything you posted. I'm fairly liberal but I'm anxious to see who the GOP can come up with because I might actually for for him/her. I even threw out a name of someone I'd consider. All I was saying is if it's Palin, I'm not voting for her.

 

[Elephant]

Elephant I don't disagree with anything you posted. I'm fairly liberal but I'm anxious to see who the GOP can come up with because I might actually for for him/her. I even threw out a name of someone I'd consider. All I was saying is if it's Palin, I'm not voting for her.

Too lazy to go back through, who is someone in the GOP you'd consider? Would you consider Newt knowing what he and Clinton were able to accomplish together even with their personal feelings about each other? I believe you are the voter who Newt could win over if he could get past his character issues. He has proven he can work across party lines, but he has also shown he is vindictive with his witch hunt with Kenneth Star.

 

[Henry]

Too lazy to go back through, who is someone in the GOP you'd consider? Would you consider Newt knowing what he and Clinton were able to accomplish together even with their personal feelings about each other? I believe you are the voter who Newt could win over if he could get past his character issues. He has proven he can work across party lines, but he has also shown he is vindictive with his witch hunt with Kenneth Star.

I won't get past his character issues.

I mentioned Huckabee. I'm usually not real fond of social conservatives, but I like him despite myself.