Eagles Week: Studs, Duds and Hat Tips

I would be on the phone offering to make him the highest paid coach in NFL history. Sam Howell would be the immediate starter is my guess.

He wouldn’t come here if we made that offer and then doubled it.
 
Boone said:
It may be the only way we find a long-term HC. Let's be realistic - what proven HC is going to want to come here? It's worse now than ever. Growing our own future HC might be our best option going forward. That's not an endorsement of Scott Turner by any means, but who's to say he can't be a great HC?

I don't think Ron Rivera gets fired under any circumstances. In a lot of ways, as Bulldog spelled out, he's been what the franchise needed from an organization-steadying standpoint. I'm just not sure he's ever been a really good head coach and that's unlikely to change at this point. But we'll stick with him through this contract, I'm sure of it.
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I am, I am to say he will not be a great HC. I am to say he will not be a good HC.

I am not looking at the unit performance or anything like that to say this; those are not necessarily the skills needed to succeed at HC (although there are problems for Scott there too).

The key thing is, he has had a tendency to blame the players when mistakes are made. He has shirked responsibility in the press conferences over the past couple of years and he has had the unfortunate habit of calling out players periodically (perhaps taking some cues from Rivera there). That is a hallmark of bad coaching and poor management, in any scenario (easy to apply that rule everywhere, including outside of the NFL).

Anyone who calls a game the way he did yesterday has a lot of problems that go beyond simply being a poor playcaller. Everyone knew the Eagles D strength was pass, and they were poor against the run. The Commanders, when they ran, were having really good success (something like 6 ypc). The game wasn't "out of hand" in the first half; what game is, but anyway, it clearly wasn't. Yet, Scott continued to favor pass grossly over the run, in spite of all of that.

That is really delusional. That is a sign of a poor... almost everything.
 
I’m not defending Turner’s effort on Sunday. I get your point, but the fact remains until someone fails as a head coach, we don’t know. Belichick looked like anything but a sure bet early in his coaching career.
 
Boone said:
I’m not defending Turner’s effort on Sunday. I get your point, but the fact remains until someone fails as a head coach, we don’t know. Belichick looked like anything but a sure bet early in his coaching career.
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Not sure without Brady we're even talking about Belichick being a great HC. Not all HC's we're great coordinators, Mike Tomlin was never a top notch DC but he's fielded some pretty good teams over the years. Tony Dungy I don't think was even a top assistant before taking the Tampa job.
 
Neophyte said:
There are absolutely exceptions. No question.

Vermeil won a SB with the Rams after almost getting a ring with the Eagles.
Reid did the same with KC.
Carroll succeeded in Seattle where he failed with the Jets.
Then you have Arians and Belichick who both won Super Bowls in second stints with Brady at QB.

There are your exceptions.

So far, no SB winning coach has ever gone somewhere else and won it again. Parcells came closest.

Payton has his ring and right now I think the smart money is on him to do something similar to Parcells - get close somewhere else but ultimately miss out.
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This is an interesting conversation. I was curious so I looked it up. There are a few more names of guys who won in their second coaching jobs. But you are correct that no one won with one team then went to another and won. Parcells and Mike Holmgren went back to the SB with another team but lost. Ironically, Holmgren gave Pacells his SB loss. There are however a few big names that won their first SB on their second team and a few guys who are just footnotes in history. I’m listing the teams they started with and then their Super Bowl winning team.

Weeb Ewbank - Super Bowl 3 (Colts first then Jets)
Don Shula - Super Bowls 6 and 7 (Colts then Dolphins)

Then a long break before you start seeing it some more:

Mike Shanahan - Super Bowls 32 and 33 (Raiders then Broncos)
Dick Vermeil - Super Bowl 34 (Eagles then Rams)
Bill Belichick Super Bowls 36, 38, 39, 49, 51, 53 (Browns then Patriots)
Jon Gruden - Super Bowl 37 (Raiders then Bucs)
Tony Dungy - Super Bowl 41 (Bucs then Colts)
Tom Coughlin - Super Bowls 42 and 46 (Jags then Giants)
Pete Carroll - Super Bowl 48 (Patriots then Seahawks)
Gary Kubiak - Super Bowl 50 (Texans then Broncos)
Andy Reid - Super Bowl 54 (Eagles then Chiefs)
Bruce Arians - Super Bowl 55 (Cardinals then Bucs)

12 of the 35 Super Bowl winning coaches did it with their second team after having various levels of success with their first team. Some were good, while others were pretty much a bust. And it’s been a more recent trend, although we know the early days of the Super Bowl were dominated by dynasties and Hall of Fame coaches. Coaches get fired more frequently these days and even good ones let go. Some have found success on their second team.

Also, honorable mention to Dan Reeves and John Fox who took two different teams to Super Bowls, but they never won. Still impressive though.
 
Wow. Thought I was up on my NFL history. Nice work, Kel.

I had Coughlin's order of operations reversed in my memory. I thought he was Giants first, then Jags.
I guess I've just blanked the Raiders out of my memory completely as I had forgotten that Shanahan coached there at all or that Gruden was there before he won it with the Bucs.
And I forgot about Kubiak entirely as anything but a QB. LOL
 
It was Shula that I remembered, then just went and looked it up. I’m not that smart. But as I looked through the names, I remembered each of those coaches at their previous stops. I only knew Shula because I used to watch a Super Bowl history video as a kid and knew he coached in Baltimore and lost to the Jets in the infamous Namath guarantee game.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
This is an interesting conversation. I was curious so I looked it up. There are a few more names of guys who won in their second coaching jobs. But you are correct that no one won with one team then went to another and won. Parcells and Mike Holmgren went back to the SB with another team but lost. Ironically, Holmgren gave Pacells his SB loss. There are however a few big names that won their first SB on their second team and a few guys who are just footnotes in history. I’m listing the teams they started with and then their Super Bowl winning team.

Weeb Ewbank - Super Bowl 3 (Colts first then Jets)
Don Shula - Super Bowls 6 and 7 (Colts then Dolphins)

Then a long break before you start seeing it some more:

Mike Shanahan - Super Bowls 32 and 33 (Raiders then Broncos)
Dick Vermeil - Super Bowl 34 (Eagles then Rams)
Bill Belichick Super Bowls 36, 38, 39, 49, 51, 53 (Browns then Patriots)
Jon Gruden - Super Bowl 37 (Raiders then Bucs)
Tony Dungy - Super Bowl 41 (Bucs then Colts)
Tom Coughlin - Super Bowls 42 and 46 (Jags then Giants)
Pete Carroll - Super Bowl 48 (Patriots then Seahawks)
Gary Kubiak - Super Bowl 50 (Texans then Broncos)
Andy Reid - Super Bowl 54 (Eagles then Chiefs)
Bruce Arians - Super Bowl 55 (Cardinals then Bucs)

12 of the 35 Super Bowl winning coaches did it with their second team after having various levels of success with their first team. Some were good, while others were pretty much a bust. And it’s been a more recent trend, although we know the early days of the Super Bowl were dominated by dynasties and Hall of Fame coaches. Coaches get fired more frequently these days and even good ones let go. Some have found success on their second team.

Also, honorable mention to Dan Reeves and John Fox who took two different teams to Super Bowls, but they never won. Still impressive though.
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Good work.
Gary Kubiak was helped a little by Peyton Manning, and a #1 Defense
 
Just to go along with CH's stats about Washington losing at halftime under Rivera...

7 times in 36 games (roughly 1 in 5), Washington has trailed by 20 or more at the half (twice this year)
10 times in 36 games (approximately 1 in 3.5), Washington has trailed by 20 or more at some point in the game
 
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