Discussing the potential future benching og RG3

[Shi no Tenshi]

More than anything else, NFL football is a game of "What have you done for me lately?".
Players' stock is constantly changing - both, from down to up, as well as, from up to down.
If RG3 deserves a pardon for his past mistakes, then so does McCoy.
In that regard, McCoy wins, hands down.
He's 2-0 with his current team, and 2-0, in the current season.
Anything that happened prior to that, is irrelevant.
He's 2-0, while RG3 hasn't won a single game in his last 8 starts, with basically the same offense and defense support.
The difference is clear.
He's given us zero reason not to believe in him, in regards to his performance as a Redskin.
RG3 is on a decline. McCoy is on an incline.
Whatever happened to "going with the hot hand" ?

Going with the hot hand at the QB position almost always blows up in your face. It isn't known to be a good strategy.

And I really don't think we are in a Schroeder/Williams situation with these two.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Going with the hot hand at the QB position almost always blows up in your face.

Brady over Bledsoe, in NE......
Rivers over Brees, in SD....
Romo over Bledsoe in Dallas....
Hoyer over Manziel in Cleveland...
Frerrotte over Shuler in Washington !

Those didn't work out so bad, and that's just a couple off the top of my head, so I'm sure there's more.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

Brady over Bledsoe, in NE......
Rivers over Brees, in SD....
Romo over Bledsoe in Dallas....

Those didn't work out so bad, and that's just a couple off the top of my head, so I'm sure there's more.

You are taking an obscenely small sample size and trying to extrapolate it with no information. I can give you one this year that was hot hand and got worse. That would be a certain Kirk Cousins.

Look at the games those ones you mentioned had. Try to compare them in any way to the games McCoy has had. You will find those QBs you mentioned did a bit more than game manage. I seem to recall Romo putting up 40 points or so, something McCoy hasn't even done in his dreams yet.

 

[Fear The Spear]

I seem to recall Romo putting up 40 points or so, something McCoy hasn't even done in his dreams yet.

So, now flashy individual stats are more important than wins ?

 

[MikeSr619]

Rivers over brees..

Brees only went to NO and won a super bowl while the chargers still scrap for a wild card.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Rivers was still a success. And that's my point.
In fact, if he had a decent coach, he probably would have had the same, or even better success than Brees.

 

[MikeSr619]

Rivers struggled for 2 years and people called him washed up. But he was given a chance to redeem himself and help on the offensive side to do so.

 

[Fear The Spear]

All the Griffin supporters want a chance for Griffin to redeem himself.
But why can't they apply the same standard to McCoy ?
McCoy has actually shown evidence that he's already started to redeem himself.
Yet, with the pro-Griffin group, Griffin's past failures are irrelevant, yet McCoy's past failures are totally relevant. If you're going to give one man a chance to redeem himself, you have to give the other man the same chance.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

So, now flashy individual stats are more important than wins ?

No, but flashy stats actually equal hot hand. Colt McCoy doesn't have a hot hand. He has a luke warm one, and you are saying that's at least better than a cold one.

 

[MikeSr619]

We didn't draft mccoy
He is a career failure as a starter
He is now a backup at best.
He has 1.5 wins here in dc while Griffin is our face and franchise qb.

Sorry, but colt ain't the answer no matter how many games he manages to not lose.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

All the Griffin supporters want a chance for Griffin to redeem himself.
But why can't they apply the same standard to McCoy ? And at least create an open-minded competition ?
McCoy has actually shown evidence that he's already started to redeem himself.
Yet, with the pro-Griffin group, Griffin's past failures are irrelevant, yet McCoy's past failures are totally relevant. If you're going to give one man a chance to redeem himself, you have to give the other man the same chance.

Personally, it isn't about giving him a chance to redeem himself. We will be going nowhere with McCoy as a starter. We need to find out, as this season is already lost to us in regards to the playoffs, if Griffin can be grown into what we need.

Playing McCoy doesn't achieve any goals in the future, and at best gives you a couple wins now that do nothing more than give us a worse draft pick.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

Hoyer over Manziel in Cleveland...

Really. A vet versus a rookie. You have your axe to grind, don't you, and will take even the slimmest of links to do so. No point in this argument. I'm out.

 

[Fear The Spear]

I'm thinking more in terms of next offseason, what we should do, if we see more of the same performace from Griffin.
I agree, that the best thing to do at this point, is to start Griffin.
That way, we can settle once and for all, if he's the QB for the future, without sacrificing the playoffs, since we're already elminated, barring a complete miracle.
I have confidence McCoy can step in next season and perform well, even if he's rusty, so he probably doesn't need the last 6 games of this year, to polish himself.
McCoy can take a few years off, and not be rusty.
I do not have the same confidence in Robert. It seems like if he takes just a few weeks off, he's rusty.

 

[MikeSr619]

Because colt has done that so many times before in his career? Even against the bums he only threw for 299 and a pick.

A pick that prevented a touchdown. Not really sure where you get this whole world beater in colt from.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Really. A vet versus a rookie. You have your axe to grind, don't you, and will take even the slimmest of links to do so. No point in this argument. I'm out.

It really has a lot in common.
Both Manziel and RG3 were 1st round draft picks, with a lot of investment and expectation involved.
So for a guy like Hoyer, who a lot of people never even heard of, to beat out Manzeil, a guy who the team obviously had a bias towards, based on investment/expectation, it really does prove my point, that it's about "hot hand", and not about "perceived value" in a player, or based on his past acccomplishments.

 

[MikeSr619]

Yeah, I'm done now too. It's too far.

 

[McD5]

Did someone say crab legs?

 

[Fear The Spear]

The fundamental problem I see is clear, and boils down to this :
People want to see RG3 as a developing and progressing QB, with unlimited potential
But they refuse to afford McCoy or Cousins that same freedom, and right, and potential.
You cannot talk about 2 QB's who have been in the league about the same amount of time, and insist that one has hit his "talent cap" and will never, ever get better - while the other QB is "bound to get much better".
And what adds to the irony, is that if either of them seems to be progressing in his "talent cap", the facts and evidence show that it's McCoy, and not Griffin.
Not only that, but you could make the same case for Cousins vs Griffin.
Cousins has had less time to develop, than any of the 3, yet people are already giving him the "career back-up" stamp, just like McCoy.
Yet, Cousins' apparent flaws, seem to be much more manageable and correctable than RG3's numerous and fundamental flaws.

 

[McD5]

Fear, McCoy's upside is probably Alex Smith--which is fine. With a good supporting cast you can win games like that.

RG3's upside might be a Kaepernick or Wilson. Potentially accurate with some above average mobility.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Fear, McCoy's upside is probably Alex Smith--which is fine. With a good supporting cast you can win games like that.

RG3's upside might be a Kaepernick or Wilson. Potentially accurate with some above average mobility.

I could envision that scenario.
BTW, I just edited my previous post. to include Cousins.
What do you think of him ? Someone who, also is nowhere near his "talent cap" quite yet, or someone who is a career back-up now, like many say ?