Daronte Jones and the Defensive Staffing Thread

[Boone]

I don't want a trade down scenario, at least not at #7... you don't compound a sin (giving picks away on a rebuilding roster) by trying to 'undo' the sin. Stick where you are and get an impact player.

 

[heisenberg]

I don't want a trade down scenario, at least not at #7... you don't compound a sin (giving picks away on a rebuilding roster) by trying to 'undo' the sin. Stick where you are and get an impact player.

I concur, assuming theres a guy available who fits that description.

Almost every year theres a half dozen guys or so who are universally considered to be real blue chippers and more often than not when you get a blue chipper its because you took one of those guys.

For example, parsons in Dallas, everybody on the planet knew what he was capable of but he fell because too many gms outsmarted themselves.

Recognize a talent like that and pull the trigger, because more likely than not you aren't going to get any decent trade offers unless that guy isn't available with the exception of a blue chip tackle being available that we dont need.

 

[burgold]

The risk of trading down in a weak draft is you increase your bust or meh potential. The risk of not trading down is you get a player who is only good at an elite slot. That said, there will be a very high potential player at 7. In this case, give me the A+ safety or running back over the B+ wide receiver. Like everyone else, I hope an edge falls to us.

 

[Bulldog]

You know, I never heard an NFL GM like Beathard, Wolf, or modern day guys like Schneider and Veatch complain about the draft.

There are playmakers in each draft to be found in Rounds 2-7 that fans and media don't focus on before April because they are not the guys most visible on Saturday college football TV or don't play at the top 5 schools.

I would worry less about what Adam Peters can do with moving down or trading between rounds as a process and worry MORE about Peters coming out of the draft truly showing us that he can pull off some moves to make this team better in terms of VALUE- moves that perhaps some other GMs didn't see.

 

[Anselmheifer]

You know, I never heard an NFL GM like Beathard, Wolf, or modern day guys like Schneider and Veatch complain about the draft.

There are playmakers in each draft to be found in Rounds 2-7 that fans and media don't focus on before April because they are not the guys most visible on Saturday college football TV or don't play at the top 5 schools.

I would worry less about what Adam Peters can do with moving down or trading between rounds as a process and worry MORE about Peters coming out of the draft truly showing us that he can pull off some moves to make this team better in terms of VALUE- moves that perhaps some other GMs didn't see.

We have Very little blue chip talent. Tunsil and Jayden. We need more blue chippers

 

[Bulldog]

Right, I agree. But most championship teams and good GMs that run them are able to find impact players outside of the top 10-15 picks.

So, if we are hitching our future to landing Reggie White at #7 and pulling a Micah Parsons type go for broke deal in free agency for ONE player I think we are going to end up disappointed.

Peters has to be able to find players in Rounds 2-7 that can play and contribute at a high level.

Belichick did that all the time over the 20 years he was in New England.

All those #3 and #4 picks he used to accumulate turned into a lot of pro bowlers and guys that played in the league for 10 years.

 

[method man]

I don't like the 18th and Turner for 7. Adding the later pick would be nice, but we moved to far from the top of the draft I think.

You're probably right. I wish the Vikings had a pick between 12-15 to make a trade back more palatable

 

[method man]

I don't want a trade down scenario, at least not at #7... you don't compound a sin (giving picks away on a rebuilding roster) by trying to 'undo' the sin. Stick where you are and get an impact player.

I generally agree with you but I think there are exceptions if a trade back includes a potential impact player (if on a rookie deal) and/or multiple 1sts in the package

By my count, there are 3+ new GMs. New GMs generally have few qualms about trading away players from the prior regime if it means they can get their hands on more or better draft capital. Therein lies an opportunity for us to potentially pick off players those new GMs are undervaluing

 

[Conn]

Later in his career, Belichick’s drafting eventually weakened the roster and got him fired. Even for people with the eye who are better at it, drafting is streaky. John Schneider got hot for a class or two and went to multiple SB’s with that core. Then he got cold for quite a while and many wondered if he’d be fired alongside Carroll. Then he got hot again and built another, completely different SB roster in a different era of offenses and defenses. Never stopped having the eye for talent. So there’s luck to these things, and again, it’s streaky even for the best.

AP allegedly has the eye. I think he’s made some bad decisions while learning to be the top guy, alongside some good ones. Less, but some. He has the same opportunity to get hot and draft a killer class to build future playoff runs around at any time, and I’d sure like to see it. I think this offseason would be a grand time to hit a hot streak, it hasn’t happened yet that we can tell.

We need blue chip talent for sure. A few studs sprinkled around the roster sure makes it easier to get the rest to work.

We also need volume. Belichick and Newsome and Schneider all had years where they moved back to accumulate more picks, because more attempts = more hits.

What we prioritize in each draft is going to depend on how the board falls, what offers come to us, what the shape of the class looks like. There’s no one-size-fits-all approach. We need talent, period. It can come from anywhere in the draft (and FA), but it has to come from AP & Co. making good choices and selecting studs.

This current operation doesn’t work if they can’t start hitting big on some picks. Not just players who can start or play roles, but some honest to god pro bowlers and all pros. If that doesn’t happen, this current group won’t keep their jobs forever. Especially the coaches, but the FO as well. So they need to start hitting. At 7, later, wherever. If we want to be an elite team the have to start identifying and acquiring elite players for us.

 

[Bulldog]

Having more picks in Rounds 3-5 also means cheaper rookie deals when you hit on a player.

If a team has to be picking in the top 15-20 to get impact players they will never be able to assemble a title team in this era.

 

[DWinzit]

We should be seeing some defense coaching hires this week, will be interesting.

 

[Boone]

Having more picks in Rounds 3-5 also means cheaper rookie deals when you hit on a player.

If a team has to be picking in the top 15-20 to get impact players they will never be able to assemble a title team in this era.

It's not either/or. You need to hit on top picks AND find hidden gems. And sure, more picks increases the likelihood of finding some. But that doesn't necessarily mean trading out of the top 10 is a good call. And while there are no guarantees, I'm pretty sure the higher you pick, the more historically likely you find a legit impact player.

 

[Bulldog]

KC, SF, Baltimore, Buffalo, Philly, etc. have been some of the top teams over the past 5-7 years and they rarely had top 10 selections.

If you have a good GM you can find excellent value picking in the 20's and near the top of Round 2 where expected first rounders that fall get snapped up.

With the Daronte Jones pick, I am wondering if Brian Flores recommended Jones to Quinn and the Commanders?

 

[burgold]

You can't build a defense based on first round picks. You have to find talent everywhere. In the modern NFL, a defense rotates so much you need probably 2o quality players. If you hit on every first and second round pick that would still take ten years just to fill a roster. By the time you did that, the first players you got it would be retiring.

 

[DWinzit]

KC, SF, Baltimore, Buffalo, Philly, etc. have been some of the top teams over the past 5-7 years and they rarely had top 10 selections.

If you have a good GM you can find excellent value picking in the 20's and near the top of Round 2 where expected first rounders that fall get snapped up.

Absolutely and leaves us hoping AP really proves himself this year in the draft and FA.

Your statement is also where small trade backs can be worthy. We have had a lot of schmucks with their hands or influences in the drafting room over the years

 

[Conn]

Yeah. People talk about drafting a 1st round LB bc he can play like a Van Ginkel, for instance…AP needs to be drafting Van Ginkel types where the original was taken—5th round. We need to hit on some of those picks. He’s drafted two mid-round LB’s in two years, plus some tweener big nickel/moneybacker types. Some of those picks have to eventually hit or we aren’t building anything.

Drafting well is hard, and there’s a luck element to it, and your coaching staff needs to be able to develop guys and utilize their skill sets correctly. But to succeed you eventually need some studly draft classes. AP needs to nail some picks (and signings of course) if he wants to be here long term, there’s nothing else for it but to wait and see if he can do it. He needs a mid/late round all-pro. He needs unheralded guys to turn out to be pro bowlers. He needs young depth pieces to fill in admirably when starters get hurt. Those are all just things that are going to be required for him to be considered an elite GM. Or just a really good one.

He’s got the QB, that’s the hardest part. Now he needs to show out. This will be his third draft, the FO has been made over, he’s got his guy Newmark and whatever scouts he’s wanted to hire since he arrived. They need to start nailing stud picks or nothing else will matter, including the coaching staff. I’m not saying 2026 is now or never necessarily, but that he has to eventually start showing his great eye for talent evaluation or it’s all going to amount to nothing. This year, next year, who knows. Patience can’t be endless in a results-oriented league.

 

[Always Commander Never Captain]

Just putting this out there...Kain Medrano would probably play well in this defense. His speed/coverage would be phenomenal for showing blitz at a gap further away from where he would drop into coverage.

 

[Conn]

Just putting this out there...Kain Medrano would probably play well in this defense. His speed/coverage would be phenomenal for showing blitz at a gap further away from where he would drop into coverage.

That’s the sort of pick that has to emerge for AP to be successful. Not Medrano specifically, but guys like him. You put them in the pipeline and actively develop them, some will hit, fewer will hit big. But every draft can’t have mid-late round results maxing out as Special Teams studs. Won’t work.

Medrano specifically turning out to be good would be cool, he’s got a lot of tools. Drafting guys who never learned to tackle properly in years and years of football seems risky to me, so some of these late round prospects we’ve swung on have been questionable. But hopefully as time goes on some of them unexpectedly emerge.

 

[method man]

That’s the sort of pick that has to emerge for AP to be successful. Not Medrano specifically, but guys like him. You put them in the pipeline and actively develop them, some will hit, fewer will hit big. But every draft can’t have mid-late round results maxing out as Special Teams studs. Won’t work.

Medrano specifically turning out to be good would be cool, he’s got a lot of tools. Drafting guys who never learned to tackle properly in years and years of football seems risky to me, so some of these late round prospects we’ve swung on have been questionable. But hopefully as time goes on some of them unexpectedly emerge.

I am more forgiving of that with Kain because he was a receiver into his college career

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Hey folks, just a reminder this isn’t a draft thread or a peters thread or even a defensive player acquisition thread. We’ve sortof veered off topic here a bit.

I’m not sure exactly where these comments go, and it’s a good conversation, maybe the draft thread or maybe there is a Peters thread (or somebody can start one), but this one is supposed to be about the defensive coaching and Jones.