Commanders @ Dallas - Next Day Thread

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm not sure why posters are giving Jayden a pass. He was not having a good game before he got hurt. He was missing throws all over the field. Throws he didn't miss last year. Throws he has to make to give us a chance. The offense looked like crap all day.

Nobody wants to accept reality. The regression, the sophomore slump many predicted, is happening before our very eyes. Now he is hurt, again.

Why can't we ever have nice things?

 

[heisenberg]

When is the last time we had a good defense?

Im not talking some dvoa middle of the pack crap that only counts as "not embarrassing" like this current garbage qualifies as, im talking about good.
A defense that you could actually cheer for when they got a sack because it was now highly probable that the other team was gonna have to punt not one that will almost certainly just give up 18 yards on 3rd and 15.

When is the last time we had that?

20 years ago under williams?

Its incredible how long this team has gone without having a respectable defense.

 

[DieselPwr44]

When is the last time we had a good defense?

Im not talking some dvoa middle of the pack crap that only counts as "not embarrassing" like this current garbage qualifies as, im talking about good.
A defense that you could actually cheer for when they got a sack because it was now highly probable that the other team was gonna have to punt not one that will almost certainly just give up 18 yards on 3rd and 15.

When is the last time we had that?

20 years ago under williams?

Its incredible how long this team has gone without having a respectable defense.

 

[DWinzit]

The play calling on both sides has been predictable and questioned by many of us without a lot of adjustments.

Last week DQ admitted a little bit of this and last night he finally got mad over it. Has he as well as the coordinator and staff been blind to this until now?

For me a bigger question is that we have a lot of veteran leader type players, why would they not be standing on soap boxes and screaming it to the staff?

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

I'm not sure why posters are giving Jayden a pass. He was not having a good game before he got hurt. He was missing throws all over the field. Throws he didn't miss last year. Throws he has to make to give us a chance. The offense looked like crap all day.

Nobody wants to accept reality. The regression, the sophomore slump many predicted, is happening before our very eyes. Now he is hurt, again.

Why can't we ever have nice things?

So you legitimately think the “missed throws all over the field” have nothing to do with everything around him?

I still see a guy able to throw dots, even to the likes of Chris Moore.

The whole offense is discombobulated and not even remotely similar to what we saw last year. Jayden Daniels is the least of our worries, in fact - maybe the only part of the team that doesn’t worry me.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I'm not sure why posters are giving Jayden a pass. He was not having a good game before he got hurt. He was missing throws all over the field. Throws he didn't miss last year. Throws he has to make to give us a chance. The offense looked like crap all day.

Nobody wants to accept reality. The regression, the sophomore slump many predicted, is happening before our very eyes. Now he is hurt, again.

Why can't we ever have nice things?

So, I'll say I don't know if it's a sophomore slump or not. And here's why:

Offense and QB play is predicated on timing. And during practice, the QB and receivers develop that timing.

Jayden hasn't had ANY time to practice with the players who he is currently playing with. To me, it's kindof expected there would be some errant passes because they haven't had the reps in practice to get the timing down.

Our receivers for the game were Moore, McCaffery, Lane and Chosen.

Moore was so great during the training camp, he was cut in the initial cutdown to 53, then brought back. Chosen was recently signed and is on the PS. McCaffery is what he is, which is probably best in the slot, and Lane is a mid round rookie.

None of these guys have practiced together very much.

It's one of the reasons why I think the McLaurin holdout has ripple effects throughout the team. They never had the actual offense on the field during training camp. Then as soon as the season started, guys started dropping like flies to compound the problem.

I don't think Jayden is the problem. The problem is he is currently not the solution. Which he was last year. He was superman last year a lot. Right now, he's not superman. He's having a good season, not a great season. But all the turmoil around him is causing a problem.

 

[DWinzit]

Pretty good rebuttal VOR and agree with much of the issues presented to JD last night along with Kliffs play calling.

I am still having difficulty understanding why McCaffrey, Lane, Sinnnott and Bates were not used more. I am not looking for an answer because it would just be conjecture.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Also on the running game, I didn't see the first half, I so I can't say for certainty, but I will say I saw the Cowboys stacking the box a lot in the second half, and basically daring the Commanders to run into it. Here's the problem when the box is stacked:

- If you run "creative plays" like counter-plays or a lot of motion with pulling players, you're leaving gaping holes. If you pull the Guard/Tackle to lead a run, you might be turning a guy completely free to run down the play from behind
- If you try to run outside, you lose the numbers game, because if there are 8 in the box, they can flow more quickly to the outside than you can get blockers there
- If you try a draw, that works if the defenders think there is a chance at a pass, if they don't, they crash and blow it up.

So, a lot of times with a stacked box, the safest route, if you're not going to check out of it and pass, is to go "shortest path between two points is a straight line" approach. And just see if you can get a little movement in the middle and pick up 4-6 yards. I think that's what Kliff was going for.

When you have the outside threats we had yesterday, Dallas decided they were basically going to single them, ignore them, and stop the run. There is just not much you can do about that except make them pay for it by throwing the ball. The one thing I think which was missing from the game plan yesterday which I found a little odd was the screen game. We didn't run many screens, either to RBs or WRs. I do wonder why that was.

I'll be honest, I'm a fan of Kliff's offense. I will point out when he has a bad game. He had a bad game in Green Bay for sure. I don't think he had much to work with yesterday, and I think he did ok. There are always nits to pick. But I think he knows what he's doing. And when you have Moore as probably the #1 WR, you're not going to get a lot of respect from the defense for your pass game.

I kidnof whished they would have just said "screw it" and not tried to run and gone against what you would expect.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

I don't think Jayden is the problem. The problem is he is currently not the solution. Which he was last year. He was superman last year a lot. Right now, he's not superman. He's having a good season, not a great season. But all the turmoil around him is causing a problem.

And part of what made him Superman was that our offense had opposing defenses spread out which lends itself to Superman using his legs when nothing’s there.

That is no longer the case. Our offense scares nobody and it shows in how they play us.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Sinnot's been here all season.No injury issues that we're aware of.

When asked about him, the staff seems high on him. In a season where you are starved for pass targets, one would think now is the time to start using him in the pass game, yet they don't.
They would rather cling to an old vet, in the twilight of his career.
Just a lot of questionable decisions when it comes to player development.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Pretty good rebuttal VOR and agree with much of the issues presented to JD last night along with Kliffs play calling.

I am still having difficulty understanding why McCaffrey, Lane, Sinnnott and Bates were not used more. I am not looking for an answer because it would just be conjecture.

Quinn said they knew what they had to do to win this game. I am reading between the lines here a little bit, but I think the insinuation was "we have to run the ball, control clock, and then not fall apart on defense." I think this was always going to be a ball-control type game. They really wanted to run the ball. And Quinn said he thought they would run the ball better than they did. And was dissapointed in the run game production.

I think they went in with a gameplan and it just fell apart because Dallas knew what the game plan was (which is a "well duh" type of thing because it only made sense), and they did a good job stopping it. The thing is, I don't think they really had anything to adjust too.

I haven't seen the published snap counts per player yet, but my feeling is all those guys played a lot.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

And part of what made him Superman was that our offense had opposing defenses spread out which lends itself to Superman using his legs when nothing’s there.

That is no longer the case. Our offense scares nobody and it shows in how they play us.

Yeah, even with Terry and the other guys, at least there was Terry. And Brown did have a lot of speed, and OZ knew what he was doing. They could attack at every level.

The problem is right now with this group of skill position players, we can't attack anybody at any level. If they could ever get a healthy McLaurin and Deebo on the field together, I think that's a dramatic difference.

I mean, would the Colt's offense of the mid-2000's look the same if it was Peyton Manning without Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark? I know Clark was a TE, but he was essentially their WR3. It would be an entirely different operation, even with a GOAT QB and a proven system. And I'm not saying McLaurin, Deebo and Noah Brown are anywhere near Harrison, Wayne and Clark. But the reason you have starters and backups is because the starters are better. You can't just lose all of them and expect the same results.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

PS: I have absolutely nothing good to say about the defense. I'm not sure firing Joe Whitt solves anything at this point, but that side of the ball is a mess. I will say, they don't have any DEs left who they thought they would play, and that's a problem. Wise, Jean-Baptist, Armstrong are all hurt. None of their starters at that position are on the field. So there's some context there.

That said, the back end of the defense and LBs are a mess, and that has nothing to do with the fact the DEs are hurt.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

So you legitimately think the “missed throws all over the field” have nothing to do with everything around him?

I still see a guy able to throw dots, even to the likes of Chris Moore.

The whole offense is discombobulated and not even remotely similar to what we saw last year. Jayden Daniels is the least of our worries, in fact - maybe the only part of the team that doesn’t worry me.

He missed open guys. Those misses stalled drives and could have kept them in the game. He is simply not playing like he did last year, how we expected him to play. And it can't be all blamed on the other players. Again he had guys open and missed them, he was 12 for 22 and I don't recall too many drops.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Quinn said they knew what they had to do to win this game. I am reading between the lines here a little bit, but I think the insinuation was "we have to run the ball, control clock, and then not fall apart on defense." I think this was always going to be a ball-control type game. They really wanted to run the ball. And Quinn said he thought they would run the ball better than they did. And was dissapointed in the run game production.

I think they went in with a gameplan and it just fell apart because Dallas knew what the game plan was (which is a "well duh" type of thing because it only made sense), and they did a good job stopping it. The thing is, I don't think they really had anything to adjust too.

I haven't seen the published snap counts per player yet, but my feeling is all those guys played a lot.

Yeah again though, Paulsen who is very slow to call out a coach, came as close as he would when he pretty much said Dallas knew what we were running. He said we had formation tells and we had down and distance tells.

This is what I have been saying since w2 or w3 this year. We established strange highly consistent temdencies. That’s great if you are winning. You can build some up and then later on break them and go on a tear. You need to break them at this point.

Logan was echoing that statement. This doesn’t show up in data. You can tell based on the kind of penetration and targeting the defense is doing, especially with guys who typically over pursue; that is what I have been reacting to. It will not show up in stats.

 

[DWinzit]

Quinn said they knew what they had to do to win this game. I am reading between the lines here a little bit, but I think the insinuation was "we have to run the ball, control clock, and then not fall apart on defense." I think this was always going to be a ball-control type game. They really wanted to run the ball. And Quinn said he thought they would run the ball better than they did. And was dissapointed in the run game production.

I think they went in with a gameplan and it just fell apart because Dallas knew what the game plan was (which is a "well duh" type of thing because it only made sense), and they did a good job stopping it. The thing is, I don't think they really had anything to adjust too.

I haven't seen the published snap counts per player yet, but my feeling is all those guys played a lot.

Oh I do think they planned to run the ball. He issue of course is we all knew Dallas would key on that and probably Ertz. There didn't appear to ever be another plan which makes no sense. I fully expected to see the young weapons we have be given opportunity and it just didn't look like there was any backup plan or adjustments. There is a point where run up the middle doesn't work...it was like dejavu with Turner a few years ago.

You are on the money with us having zero DE's left, I still wish we had signed Clowney as soon as Wise went down. They really needed to better address this position last year.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Yeah again though, Paulsen who is very slow to call out a coach, came as close as he would when he pretty much said Dallas knew what we were running. He said we had formation tells and we had down and distance tells.

This is what I have been saying since w2 or w3 this year. We established strange highly consistent temdencies. That’s great if you are winning. You can build some up and then later on break them and go on a tear. You need to break them at this point.

Logan was echoing that statement. This doesn’t show up in data. You can tell based on the kind of penetration and targeting the defense is doing, especially with guys who typically over pursue; that is what I have been reacting to. It will not show up in stats.

I like Paulsen, but I don't always trust his analysis. He also might not be wrong, but also doesn't have a lot of better options.

I say this often with the analyst types, if they were really good at putting together game plans, then they would be doing that instead of commenting on what other people are doing.

I think, if memory serves ( skinsinparadise can correct me if I'm wrong), but Paulsen was also one of the guys really high on the Ron OL which completely fell apart.

I get what he's saying, and there might be tendencies. But at the same time, as I outlined above, I'm not sure what you do about those tendencies at the moment.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

He missed open guys. Those misses stalled drives and could have kept them in the game. He is simply not playing like he did last year, how we expected him to play. And it can't be all blamed on the other players. Again he had guys open and missed them, he was 12 for 22 and I don't recall too many drops.

I think Galdi said there were 3 or 4 drops.

I come back to, did he miss them or where they not where they were supposed to be? If it was Deebo or McLaurin running the route, would they have been where he threw the ball?

This is the timing part of the offense. Accuracy is not hitting a stationary target. It's hitting a moving target 30 yards down field, and the QB throws to where he expects the WR to be. Sure, they all miss throws from time to time, just flat missed throws.

But it's hard to know what's going on with the entire offense being a rotating door of players. There's no way to build timing if you can't practice togeher, and they haven't had the group together to practice together except for the 1 week between when Terry signed his contract and week 1. Then there was the short week to GB (virtually no practice), then Daniels was hurt.

The starting group had 1 week of practice together, and now they're just throwing things out there and hoping. Hope is not a strategy.

 

[CuredFromBatteredFanSyndrome]

He missed open guys. Those misses stalled drives and could have kept them in the game. He is simply not playing like he did last year, how we expected him to play. And it can't be all blamed on the other players. Again he had guys open and missed them, he was 12 for 22 and I don't recall too many drops.

Part of who we has last season, was a sum of the parts. Same applies this season. Same applies for every QB, for every team, every season.


To each his own, but I have no doubts things would look different if we could keep defenses honest.

 

[Discobob]

If this team is approaching mathematically challenged scenarios to make the playoffs as the deadline approaches, I expect AP will be trading away a lot of contracts in exchanges for picks. If not then, it will be happening as soon as he is allowed to in the post-season

I'd love to see this, but the scenario you are talking about can't realistically happen IMO. We have two more games before the Nov 4th trade deadline.... so we could, in theory, be 3-6 with the last loss coming late on Nov 2nd. We wouldn't be eliminated from the playoffs at that point.

I'm all in favor of the NFL moving back it's trade deadline until later in the season so it functions more like MLB, NBA, and NHL ... but it just doesn't right now.