Commanders Coffee #6

Who are you firing first to try and salvage to 2022/23 season?

  • Scot Turner

    Votes: 2 33.3%

  • Jack Del Rio

    Votes: 4 66.7%
  • Total voters
    6
Yeah, that was my thought too, Boone.

At what point does it start to look like intentional sabotage?
 
Boone said:
And Danny Johnson has played well for us in the past. WTF?
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Well enough to at least be an immediate backup. He started some games, and played in a total of 42 games for us.
He wouldn't have lasted that long, if he wasn't a capable backup. Something must have put him in the dog-house, with Mando.
 
I can’t make sense out of half of what this team does.
 
I went Del Rio and the reason is simple. Through three games, the defense has shown almost nothing. They look like the worst defense in the league. The offense has issues, but has shown signs of life and you can see the path to success on offense. I don’t see any path to success for the defense without a miraculous turnaround.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
I went Del Rio and the reason is simple. Through three games, the defense has shown almost nothing. They look like the worst defense in the league. The offense has issues, but has shown signs of life and you can see the path to success on offense. I don’t see any path to success for the defense without a miraculous turnaround.
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Del Rio is a problem, I think there's no doubt.

However, I don't know if I've ever witnessed a bigger failure in scheme than I did on Sunday. There are so many reasons it was a monumental failure:
- Eagles are known to have a bad run D
- Eagles are known to have a good pass D
- Commanders struggled against strong pass rush last week
- Commanders have a Defense that would benefit from a good ToP Offense, giving them rest (limited depth, many reasons here)

So those are already more than enough, but Scott's typical excuse which I hate, is when he runs like 3 times and gets 3 yards, then he trots out the old "We weren't running well" as if other teams don't just stick to it for all of the obvious benefits that it sets up, like play action that people actually bite on, ToP, slow the pass rush, so many things.
THAT EXCUSE WAS NOT VALID! They were having success running!

So he seemed to have literally no excuse, and everything was tilted towards running the ball.

He called for passes instead. Many of them slow-developing.

It is totally unsurprising that the O scored 0 points on Sunday, and it was essentially the same genius game plan he called last week in the first half to disastrous results. He wants to dictate all of the time; he thinks that his scheme can dictate to any opposition, even when the odds are STACKED for you to do something slightly different. He is completely inflexible, and that is one of the hallmarks of a horrible coach.

Del Rio, from what I've read, is similarly inflexible. His scheme is very complicated too. Even still, I go Turner without blinking. This team has backed Turner without good cause for years now, and he has not earned any of it from what I've seen. This past Sunday was a huge indictment. The proper thing to do would be to find a new playcaller, but something seems wrong (unhealthy) between Ron and Scott. So, even though Ron HAS indicated in recent quotes some disappointment in playcalling (YES!!!!) I am still not holding my breath.

-- all of the above is why I agree with Boone; ultimately this probably rests with Ron. We have too much failure in all phases.
 
I voted JDR but it's really within the context of this particular question.

It is just easier to change defensive philosophies in season than I think it is offensive. I think firing JDR following a game and installing a new DC the next day would yield almost immediate dividends, visible in the very next game. I think canning Turner like that would cause the offense to get worse before it got much better and it might not get much better until the following season.
 
SkinsNumberOne said:
Del Rio is a problem, I think there's no doubt.

However, I don't know if I've ever witnessed a bigger failure in scheme than I did on Sunday. There are so many reasons it was a monumental failure:
- Eagles are known to have a bad run D
- Eagles are known to have a good pass D
- Commanders struggled against strong pass rush last week
- Commanders have a Defense that would benefit from a good ToP Offense, giving them rest (limited depth, many reasons here)

So those are already more than enough, but Scott's typical excuse which I hate, is when he runs like 3 times and gets 3 yards, then he trots out the old "We weren't running well" as if other teams don't just stick to it for all of the obvious benefits that it sets up, like play action that people actually bite on, ToP, slow the pass rush, so many things.
THAT EXCUSE WAS NOT VALID! They were having success running!

So he seemed to have literally no excuse, and everything was tilted towards running the ball.

He called for passes instead. Many of them slow-developing.

It is totally unsurprising that the O scored 0 points on Sunday, and it was essentially the same genius game plan he called last week in the first half to disastrous results. He wants to dictate all of the time; he thinks that his scheme can dictate to any opposition, even when the odds are STACKED for you to do something slightly different. He is completely inflexible, and that is one of the hallmarks of a horrible coach.

Del Rio, from what I've read, is similarly inflexible. His scheme is very complicated too. Even still, I go Turner without blinking. This team has backed Turner without good cause for years now, and he has not earned any of it from what I've seen. This past Sunday was a huge indictment. The proper thing to do would be to find a new playcaller, but something seems wrong (unhealthy) between Ron and Scott. So, even though Ron HAS indicated in recent quotes some disappointment in playcalling (YES!!!!) I am still not holding my breath.

-- all of the above is why I agree with Boone; ultimately this probably rests with Ron. We have too much failure in all phases.
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The time of possession and ball control is something I thought of as well. We talk about playing complimentary football and normally it’s in the context of one side of the ball (i.e. a good pass rush helping the DB cover the receivers because the pressure doesn’t give them time to get open). But as a team, these guys need to play complimentary football. The offense needs to control the ball more to help the defense out. The defense needs to give the offense short fields. Special teams needs to do the same. This team just isn’t doing any of that. The defense starts making plays, and the offense goes 3 and out. The offense gets some momentum, then the defense comes out and gives up long drive to give up the lead. The units just aren’t on the same page.
 
Scott Turner has no situational awareness as an in game play caller. It's why he's slow to adjust...to anything.

Also, he has demonstrated beyond doubt, that he does not understand the value of the run game to an offense or for that matter,the aforementioned complimentary football aspect of team play.

As an example,last Sunday, Gibson rips off a ten yard run on first down. Instead of handing it off again,the next two plays are PA passes. He is much like Spurrier in that he calls runs as a throwaway play in order to get back to the pass. When even Mark Schlereth is saying run the ball and settle the offense down,what does that tell you?

Remember, last year when they went on their little streak,it was Rivera who told Turner to run the ball more. It wasn't Turner having an epiphany of any kind.

Now kids today will say "Shut up Old man...that 80's stuff won't work today" when they hear this line of thinking but as some of us here know......Joe Gibbs had three 1000 yd receivers in the same season while being a run oriented team.

You have to have balance and be multi-faceted as an offense.The tools are there for this to work. Just need somebody who understands the game to call it.....
 
It's not just the playcalling.
It's the execution.
And it's the Personnel decisions.
 
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Canadian Hog said:
Just three weeks into the Commanders' inaugural season and it is certainly getting pretty ugly. Ron Rivera is in what is considered a pivotal third year as head coach of the franchise and unfortunately, instead of making strides and major leaps forward right now, the ship appears to be sinking. It feels as though sooner or later, a desperation move might be made and somebody will be made a scapegoat for the team's overall poor play.

This week, we simply ask you the following:

If you are Ron Rivera and had to make one and only one coaching move to try and salvage the 2022/23 season, who are you firing? Scot Turner or Jack Del Rio?

Discuss and debate amongst yourselves.
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Scott Turner is not the problem. Carson Wentz is.

His days as a starting QB are over.
 
He starts Sunday. So… not yet they aren’t :)
 
Theismann To HOF said:
Scott Turner is not the problem. Carson Wentz is.

His days as a starting QB are over.
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Don't know yet what Wentz is but if your OL interior can't pass block,no QB will perform when your OC calls 7 step drops.

OC and Qb have to work in concert to have a chance.
 
DieselPwr44 said:
Don't know yet what Wentz is but if your OL interior can't pass block,no QB will perform when your OC calls 7 step drops.

OC and Qb have to work in concert to have a chance.
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A QB as undisciplined as Wentz is going to make EVERY offensive coordinator look bad.

What I see is a bunch of people on this board who are embarrassed how wrong they were about Wentz....and too proud to admit how wrong they were about Wentz.

The Eagles warned us. The Colts warned us. But Washington fans are just as dumb as the coaching staff, if not dumber.
 
Theismann To HOF said:
A QB as undisciplined as Wentz is going to make EVERY offensive coordinator look bad.

What I see is a bunch of people on this board who are embarrassed how wrong they were about Wentz....and too proud to admit how wrong they were about Wentz.

The Eagles warned us. The Colts warned us. But Washington fans are just as dumb as the coaching staff, if not dumber.
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I never understood why people thought it would be any different in Washington.
I believe they just wanted "anyone but Heinicke". Or "anyone with a strong arm"
 
Lovin Cousins said:
I never understood why people thought it would be any different in Washington.
I believe they just wanted "anyone but Heinicke". Or "anyone with a strong arm"
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Of course. Because they don't understand football.

It's laughable that "fans" believe a stud arm is the key to success for an NFL QB. They are just totally unknowledgeable fans.

It my view, Heinicke was the best QB this team has had in decades. And he's a helluva a lot better than Wentz. That is now plainly obvious.
 
32 teams passed on having Heinickie on a roster. He was on his sister's couch when Washington,out of desperation,signed him.

Even after signing Wentz and drafting Howell,nobody approached this team asking about Heinickie's availability.

Yet Theismann here is the ONLY one...a fan on the couch who knows more about football than us poor dumb hicks here...and he is a QB genius,just ask him,he'll tell you.....that knows Heinickie's a franchise Qb?

Yeah...OK......
 
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