Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions, 2020

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Ax

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I would be vehemently opposed to trading TW for a mere 3rd round pick. Two 3's or a 3rd/4th/5th combo - yes. But not for a 3rd rounder alone. We are far better off making him play out the season than accepting that kind of lowball offer.
I'm on the opposite page here.

Never thought we'd even get a 3rd for Crybaby. So I'd take that deal and never look back.

And under no circumstances should he be on the roster when training camp opens. He's a cancer. Nothing but a headache inducing distraction. I know all the arguments of why to make him play. NONE are worth it, IMHO.
If we can't move him before, or during the draft, we could still trade him to a team in need, after the draft. Only drawback would be the pick would be for next years draft. Possibly even a 2nd rounder +. Since we'd have to wait.
 

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I want him gone - but why let him go for chump change? I'm highly confident Rivera can handle Trent Williams for a season if it comes to that. We have the leverage here - we need to use it. You're telling me we can't get more than a single 3rd round pick for a top 5 NFL left tackle who still has a full contract of very good play in him? And if it's next year's pick or the year after that - fine. But no way we should trade him for a single 3rd round pick.
 

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He is no longer top five. Top half - yes. Big Trent is still very good, but he has never been first team all-pro. Never. Third rounder or he stays another year. I'm fine with either outcome.
 

Ax

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Not worth the risk IMO.
Besides, him being gone last year wasn't the biggest issue on offense.
A repeat of Penn's performance, from whomever, would be fine. Just not Crybaby.
He must go, whatever it takes.
 

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I dislike Trent's actions enough to hope he gets paid but never wins a playoff game. Some Haynesworth level bullshittery he put on us last season. First team that offers a 3rd that's in the top half of the round gets him.

BB I like your mock and love hitting o-line prospects often as possible until we find our beast 5 again. Some rowdy guys that get you a 15 yarder every other game is fine by me.
 

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The solution may be to work out a deal for Williams that includes a pick and a player.

We need a TE, we also need another corner.

We have the cap space to take on an additional salary.
 

Jimbo

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The Browns "might" be convinced to part with their 2nd round pick on Draft Day depending on what they get at #10. More than likely though, I see Trent going for a 3rd round pick this year and a conditional pick in 2021 that could be as high as a 3rd or 4th based on performance.
 

Burgundy Burner

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Folks, the most Big Trent will bring is a third rounder - probably a fourth. Any trade would likely be for a second string tight end and nothing more. Trust me on this info.

The Skins will not add another corner in FA and it is not likely they will add one in the draft. Nor will they trade for one unless a team is willing to give one away based on future value and potential cap hit.
 
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Boone

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He won't bring a 4th - because they won't accept a 4th. I'm highly skeptical they'll take a 3rd (as I'm sure one has already been offered). If we hit the draft and a 3rd is still the best offer - nothing is impossible - they may decide to take it simply to be done with it.
 

SilentThreat

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He won't bring a 4th - because they won't accept a 4th. I'm highly skeptical they'll take a 3rd (as I'm sure one has already been offered). If we hit the draft and a 3rd is still the best offer - nothing is impossible - they may decide to take it simply to be done with it.

I dont think anyone has even offered a 3rd yet, because we would have taken it. Under the new CBA (if i heard correctly) they changed the formula and how it works. I haven't been able to find confirmation of this, but I thought I heard a local reporter mention that if Trent were to hold out, the new CBA would allow for that assumed 3rd round compensatory pick we would be receiving, be more like a 5th. If that's the case, then the floor of what you're expecting to receive needs to be lowered. For a while I've kept 3rd round pick as the floor, because I was just under the impression that if we held him for another season, and even if he never touched the field, we would be getting a 3rd round pick in 2022, simply because he's likely to be signing a deal with someone once he actually hits FA. If that is off the table, then now we need to re-evaluate balancing holding out vs getting him out of the locker room. I know a 3rd is not his value, but just like market value goes up on guys like Cousins, where he makes more than the premier QBs in the league, when were in a year where we could see 4 OTs go in the first round, Trent not having completed a whole season since 2013, a short off season where teams cannot get him in and give him a physical (something NOBODY is actually talking about), and now the possibility that they know our compensatory return could be diminished (again I just heard it but I even if I could get it, not sure i would be willing to go through the CBA to find it)..... A 3rd round pick in a very deep draft, could carry value. With 2 4th rounders, we may be able to find a dance partner for a 3/4 to get into the 2nd and find some of that deeper value with 1st round talent depending on whats going on.

My vote... if you can get a mid to high 3 for Trent, you do it and start focusing on life going forward. Get him out of the locker room, start fresh.

The other part of this that i just remembered, the new CBA makes it so that fines and game checks get treated differently with a hold out. IF Trent were to hold out for the season, the season then would not count toward his contract, so we would be right back here doing this again next offseason, and his value would be diminished even further having been out of football for 2 seasons, a year older, and a bunch of other factors we may not even be aware of... yet.
 
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Boone

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You’re absolutely right that CBA details could change the equation. There have been a lot of statements made on what the new CBA actually says that have had to be retracted as they proved inaccurate, even by guys like JP Finley and Keim. So I’m not going to venture a guess :)

I do think it’s clear the penalties for sitting out are much steeper. I do t believe doing that again is a viable option for Trent. So we have more leverage this year. I’m surprised you all seem to feel we *have to* move on from him if we can’t get value. We don’t. We can absolutely play him. He would have no choice to suit up and in a final contract year he’s going to be motivated to show well so he can get one more big deal. All of TWs drama has been off the field. He’s not going to act out in the locker room imho.

If we are dead set on moving him at all costs, a 3rd is an absolute minimum but I still believe a 3rd and a conditional 3rd to 5th round pick might be possible.
 

Ax

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He's an infectious disease. Team needs him gone, at any cost.
 

Boone

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When has he ever caused a locker room or on the field issue Ax? I think ideally we move on from him. But the idea that he would ‘cause trouble’ if we can’t get value for him and have him out there for a season doesn’t seem like a legit concern to me.
 

SilentThreat

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You’re absolutely right that CBA details could change the equation. There have been a lot of statements made on what the new CBA actually says that have had to be retracted as they proved inaccurate, even by guys like JP Finley and Keim. So I’m not going to venture a guess :)

I do think it’s clear the penalties for sitting out are much steeper. I do t believe doing that again is a viable option for Trent. So we have more leverage this year. I’m surprised you all seem to feel we *have to* move on from him if we can’t get value. We don’t. We can absolutely play him. He would have no choice to suit up and in a final contract year he’s going to be motivated to show well so he can get one more big deal. All of TWs drama has been off the field. He’s not going to act out in the locker room imho.

If we are dead set on moving him at all costs, a 3rd is an absolute minimum but I still believe a 3rd and a conditional 3rd to 5th round pick might be possible.

I think it's because of a bigger vision. Allen is gone. Trainers are gone. Trent doesn't want to be here, we don't want you here. We're not Trent Williams away from being a contender, so 'forcing' him to play this year, just to let him walk next off season with a questionable amount of compensatory return gains us nothing. If we want to truly rebuild, how much more valuable is a 3rd round pick (possibly) this season, vs a (again... POSSIBLE) 3rd round compensatory (end of the round) pick in 2 years. This draft is stacked in the 2nd round, so it's very likely that a 2nd round, or even 1st round, talent falls. We need a WR. It's almost a lock that 4 Qbs (Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Love), go in the 1st round, 4 OTs, 4 top 10 Defensive players, and were talking about a draft that some SERIOUS talent falling down the line. IMHO, a 3rd is more valuable this year than risking a guaranteed later pick, as well as not knowing those draft classes.
 

Ax

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When has he ever caused a locker room or on the field issue Ax? I think ideally we move on from him. But the idea that he would ‘cause trouble’ if we can’t get value for him and have him out there for a season doesn’t seem like a legit concern to me.
He already had at least Moses singing his praises for him, "looking out for his teammates" last year. Even though Raymond Babbit knows it has always been about the money, and nothing else. Having him swarmed by the press all season long, where they will purposely stir the pot every chance they get. It's what they do. The press sucks up to players the majority of the time already. And the situation already is a distraction. Bringing him back into the building can only feed the animosity. I see absolutely no benefit for the team in bringing him back.
 

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You don’t see the obvious benefit of having a much better LT protecting the QB and run blocking than we’d otherwise have? Come on Ax... is he a pain in the ass? Yes. Is it time for the team to move on from him? Yes. But we shouldn’t give him away and if we can’t get value for him we need to use him.
 

Ax

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You don’t see the obvious benefit of having a much better LT protecting the QB and run blocking than we’d otherwise have? Come on Ax... is he a pain in the ass? Yes. Is it time for the team to move on from him? Yes. But we shouldn’t give him away and if we can’t get value for him we need to use him.
I don't buy that his assumed play is a given. His desire would be nonexistent. It is not obvious. He will not want to risk injury, as his big contract wishes would completely evaporate. Penn did much better than many "assumed". I think we can find someone to do at least that good.

He is a piss poor example of a teammate. If culture means as much as those bellyaching for it believe, then there is no sane reason to have a potential locker room splitter in the building. Besides, his boo boo will prevent him from wearing a helmet. At least here. Miraculous recovery once he's gone. He's a lying, disgruntled POS.
There is absolutely no benefit in keeping him in the building. You'll be glad I'm not in charge. I would rather release him outright, than let him ever set foot in the door.
He's not as valuable as he, or others, believe he is. IMHO, of course. I'll be happy if we get a 4th. Giddy if we get a 3rd.
 

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He’s clearly not here in 2021 and he’s too young to retire. No one in their right mind in his situation is a) going to sit out or feign injury to avoid playing, or b) sandbag it once out there. He has every reason to show he’s still a great LT so that he can get a final big deal. I don’t see your logic believing otherwise. Whatever one thinks of Williams he’s not a fool. He’ll do what is in his best interest - play and play hard - if that’s his only choice.

Obviously if TW is not on the field someone else will be. Let’s not pretend there’s anyone on this roster that’s even in the same zip code as Trent Williams in terms of ability though.
 

Ax

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So let's assume we get the dominate, pro bowl, uninjured Crybaby. We get to enjoy an entire season of him being praised, and the team getting trashed by both national, and local media, for not overpaying him. (There hindsight will exceed 20-20) Now Crybaby has grounds to say "I told you so", loudly and often. And he will. Coaches and players get to enjoy answering questions about Crybaby, on a daily, if not hourly basis. Teammates will be prodded, successfully I believe, into saying we oughta-coulda-shoulda. And even still, according to most, we will struggle to make .500 this season. And then next offseason, we still only get a 3rd for him, at best. Of course, those who enjoy bitching over everything else, will relish the opportunity to keep picking at the scabs of history.

Besides, Penn's availability, easily trumped Crybaby's "ability" last year. Won't be that hard to do it again.
 

Boone

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We were lucky Penn’s health held up last year. He did a good job. But I don’t care about media stuff. I trust the new regime will keep the players focused and won’t let TW be a distraction. They can release him if it came to that. I guess my argument would center on who is the best option to protect whoever our QB is - and I have to believe TW is that guy. I’d also prefer we move on. Just feel doing it at any cost would be (as my dearly departed Mom used to say ‘cutting our nose off to spite our face’). I know we aren’t going to agree here and it’s all good. I get your perspective and where you are coming from.
 

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