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Breaking News - Jon Gruden OUT

The NFL is king. Feel free to pay your respects.

SilentThreat

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Not shocking given the circumstances, but big news none the less. One of the biggest coaching contracts in history..
 

Kel Varnsen

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This story is both fascinating and unsurprising.

First off, if you watch what Gruden is saying on the sideline during games, it's not surprising that he would be insulting and degrading about people in an email to one of his friends. Some people may be shocked he used some of the slurs he used, but I'm not. I kind of think that people that are demeaning and degrading to people will use whatever words they can to degrade. The most degrading words are slurs and stereotypes against different people. And he can say he meant no racist intent, but how could he not know that it would be interpreted that way? I don't think he cared at the time and he went for the maximum insult which included using a racist stereotype.

As for him resigning, he has to look at the players in his locker room after they learned what he said. A team that includes mostly black players and also the first openly gay player. His team and his staff and their opinions should be what matters most. I think it would be very difficult for him to lead them after they all learned of this. I know the stories of him resigning talked about the owner and we all know that bad owners only care about how it makes them look. I'm sure Mark Davis was only concerned about himself and the damage it does to his brand. But I still think it would be very difficult for Gruden to lead those guys who now probably don't respect him anymore and some probably don't believe Gruden cares for them.

The fascinating part is why did the NFL leak these emails now? Well on Wednesday, a story was out that Demaurice Smith could be out as NFLPA director. He now had to get the votes from the player reps during a meeting Friday night to be retained. On Friday, the story is out about the emails Gruden sent about Smith. Friday night, the NFLPA votes to extend his term one more year. I don't think these two events are unrelated. The NFL owners have been able to get everything they have wanted with Smith in charge of the NFLPA. The league won on revenue sharing, player discipline, drug testing, and adding a 17th game. The league loves having Smith in charge as they can get whatever they want. Smith went from being on the verge of being fired to now being a sympathetic figure because of the revelation of Gruden's racist insult about him. I believe the league would do anything to keep him in charge of the union and the leaking of these emails at the exact time the vote was being taken that had him on shaky ground is not a coincidence. The emails weren't sent last week. And the investigation didn't just start last week either. I have a feeling someone has known about these emails for a while and leaked them at the time that would give them the most benefit.

I'm not saying the league should have covered this up or ignored it. I am saying that the timing on the release is suspicious.

One final thought on this subject. And this goes beyond this story. Anything you send electronically, just expect that it will be seen by the whole world. We have seen time and time again emails and photos leaked that were either directly shared or hacked and then released. In some cases, it causes great embarrassment. In other cases, people have lost their jobs. I don't have any children, but if I did, I would tell them the same thing about the text messages they send, the pictures they send, and the emails they write. Don't send anything you wouldn't want everyone to see. EVER.
 

MikefromOH

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Kevin Hart had to step down as host of the Oscars for jokes about his own son over a decade old.

Not to defend what he said then, but if we are "moving forward" why do we keep dragging up the past? Do we have any incidents from him within the past 10 years we can use to prove he's still that guy?

Ray Lewis allegedly helped murder two people and he not only got to play but had a job as an announcer afterwards!

Maybe Goodell can come out with a color coded handbook of what we should be offended over and what not to be. I'm just not sure where we should be outraged and where we should "move forward".

I'm not a very PC person at all and fully admit to it. But, I'm also not for catering either. If something racist or anything phobic happens in front or me I speak on it. But, the media and those with agendas telling me to be mad never get play from me.
 

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That’s a helluva post Kel. I’m not sure about the 2nd part - that the timing of the scandal was designed to keep Smith in place. Seems like it could just be coincidental and you may be giving the NFL too much diabolical credit - but who knows? Anything is possible with this organization.

I would add to your caution about electronic communication by taking it a step further. Don’t be two people, one in private to friends, and another in your public role. Be better. I’m not a fan of firing people for mistakes because we all make them and to a certain extent blame usually involves more than just one sacrificial lamb. But at some point we are all accountable for what we do and say.
 

Kel Varnsen

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That’s a helluva post Kel. I’m not sure about the 2nd part - that the timing of the scandal was designed to keep Smith in place. Seems like it could just be coincidental and you may be giving the NFL too much diabolical credit - but who knows? Anything is possible with this organization.

I would add to your caution about electronic communication by taking it a step further. Don’t be two people, one in private to friends, and another in your public role. Be better. I’m not a fan of firing people for mistakes because we all make them and to a certain extent blame usually involves more than just one sacrificial lamb. But at some point we are all accountable for what we do and say.
Either I’m becoming a conspiracy theorists or I’m the only one putting 2 and 2 together. I guess all conspiracy theorist say that they are the only ones who see it. Now I’m scaring myself. Anyway, when I saw that story about Smith being possibly out, I was thinking how the players are fed about with being run over by the league. Then this story comes out of the blue about 11 yr old emails from Gruden and he’s sticking around. I just don’t think that’s coincidental.

And I completely agree with your point about not being two people. That is something that bothers me to no end. If you can’t be the same person with your friends in private that you are in public, then who are you? Don’t get me wrong, there are things done and said in private that should remain in private. But trying to have multiple personalities based on who you are with and where you are will always lead to a downfall. As Constanta says, worlds will collide.
 

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I don't think you are crazy to at least be considering the possibility, Kel Varnsen. The timing seems pretty circumspect when you look at it like you have looked at it.

Doesn't mean I buy it completely, but it is definitely worth a closer look.
 

SkinsOrlando

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Who leaked it? Was it the NFL? Was it someone close to the WFT investigation? Was it DAN SNYDER(joking)?? The question for me is what purpose did the leak serve other than to cause Gruden to go? Which brings the question, why did he need to go? Kel, hate to say it but you might be onto something there. Considering the NFL's kind of been conspiracy theory nuts ever since Spygate, who knows. Where's Fox Mulder when I need him.
 

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What's that smell? WFT! Somehow this team finds itself in the center of large piles of excrement; idiots who didn't know better to stay away may very well deserve what they get. It is true that any email you send should be considered carefully, but sending it to this team?

It is amazing how this team went from what it was in the 80s to what it is now, speaking more to the off-the-field aspects now though. It's almost like the team is a victim of that "Dirty Work" company (RIP Norm Macdonald).

More and more articles are getting written, trying to reason the "why" for the leaks--

NFL: Jon Gruden firing result of investigation leak (yahoo.com)

NFL: Daniel Snyder used Jon Gruden emails in court filing (yahoo.com)
 

Neophyte

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Who leaked it? Was it the NFL? Was it someone close to the WFT investigation? Was it DAN SNYDER(joking)?? The question for me is what purpose did the leak serve other than to cause Gruden to go? Which brings the question, why did he need to go? Kel, hate to say it but you might be onto something there. Considering the NFL's kind of been conspiracy theory nuts ever since Spygate, who knows. Where's Fox Mulder when I need him.
Seems it may have been Snyder who in fact leaked it as part of the ongoing lawsuit against Bruce Allen.
 

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Being kind of tough on Washington fans aren’t you, lol? :)
Haha, good one! Well, it just seems interesting that all of these people talk about how devious and two-faced Jon Gruden seems to have been (and I agree), but I would also say he made a clear and fairly obvious mistake to Washington fans at least. He should never have sent anything remotely incriminating to "@redskins.com" - that was his undoing. How many more "casualties by association" to this once proud franchise will occur?

A small aside to explain some of the tenor, though - I am just in a low point with DC sports. Really disgusted by the Nats treatment of their stars (especially Soto) right now, and it just causes me to kind of go through all of the local franchises. Actually Snyder shines in consistently trying to win when compared to the other teams, but that may also be because he has yet to come close to tasting victory there. Once the others tasted victory, they all quickly seemed to have pulled back (Trotz didn't get paid by Leonsis, 2021 complete sell-off by Lerners). Taking a step back as much as possible, the comical thing about Snyder is, as hard as it is to believe, *this is him trying* - I mean, if you can take a step back, that should be funny. I think.
 

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Odd last sentence in this article by the NY Post - is it insinuating that Allen sent Gruden topless pics of Redskins cheerleaders???


" Allen was the person Gruden shared his derogatory remarks with, in which he used the words “p—y,” “f—-t” and “queers” to describe league figures and shared topless photos of Washington cheerleaders, among other offenses. "
 

Kel Varnsen

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Seems it may have been Snyder who in fact leaked it as part of the ongoing lawsuit against Bruce Allen.
I didn’t get that from the article. It stated that Snyder’s lawyers filed these things in court. If his camp then leaked them to the media, that damages their case. It’s possible this was some sort of FOI request, but there was no mention in the original articles of that’s how it was obtained. The WSJ article just keeps saying they (the writer) reviewed the emails. Someone definitely leaked them to the media though. We may never know who, or in 10 years we may find out who it was through some other investigation into the WFT.

I still stand by my original belief that the timing of this had to do with Smith and his future in the NFLPA. As more and more details come out though, it’s a lot more damaging to the league than originally thought. They can try to cast this all on Gruden, but we all know he wasn’t alone in any of what he said or did, even if he used vulgar slurs that others may or may not have used.
 

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He's being removed from Madden, too. Good Lord that's going overboard. I could see if he was screaming racist words in the game itself...but, this is all just a publicity thing now.
 

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I was a little shocked they pulled from the Bucs ring of fame. Seems like giving it some time to put everything in context would’ve been better than being so reactionary?
 

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Sadly, we have become a black & white, overly reactionary world. We expect our heroes to be perfect and when they prove themselves to be merely human, all too often we punish the good deeds right along with the bad.

I even struggle with whether Gruden should have had to pay with his current job for things said/done a decade ago. There is so little room for personal growth in today's world. No grace at all. Not to say I think he has changed any. I don't. But we don't have proof one way or the other on that.

I know I wouldn't want to be judged for some of the jokes I told 10-15 years ago and don't get me started on things I did or said in high school/college. I also have no doubt that in ten years I will likely cringe at some of the things I've said in the last month.
 

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Sadly, we have become a black & white, overly reactionary world. We expect our heroes to be perfect and when they prove themselves to be merely human, all too often we punish the good deeds right along with the bad.

I even struggle with whether Gruden should have had to pay with his current job for things said/done a decade ago. There is so little room for personal growth in today's world. No grace at all. Not to say I think he has changed any. I don't. But we don't have proof one way or the other on that.

I know I wouldn't want to be judged for some of the jokes I told 10-15 years ago and don't get me started on things I did or said in high school/college. I also have no doubt that in ten years I will likely cringe at some of the things I've said in the last month.
A lot is being made of the emails being old, but some of the emails are as recent as 2017 apparently. Personally, the Raiders are a franchise, a part of the NFL; if the organization wants to fire Gruden, I don't really care. I don't think policing the organization on their hirings/firings that strongly is that important to me. I think stuff like that should be done with a very light touch if at all. I am not against the Rooney rule, but that can get applied way too strongly in my opinion. Some of the commentary is like, there should be some kind of floor on minority hiring, which is very unclear to me. I can understand why it would make sense to let Gruden go under these circumstances; I think others have said it.
1) If the org feels like it can be a big distraction
2) if it speaks to his decision making abilities; there are plenty of jobs that DO hold your behavior from the past against you, for good or ill; that is nothing new. The more egregious the mental lapse/error, the more possible it may occur, and as with anything, it is up to the organization to make that call. Sometimes they may miss out on a good hire due to that; it is up to them.
3) if the org feels like he may not have the locker room's support even if they outwardly (in general) show support
.. there are more reasons that would be valid to me

When there are some valid reasons, I don't really worry much beyond that. With Colin Kaepernick getting blackballed, a lot of people were up in arms. I thought it was a bit strange, I thought he was probably better than some who had jobs, but I could see there being some different arguments against hiring him. Again, I did not have any major problem with it. I thought it was a bit strange, but he (Kaepernick) invited a lot of attention on himself and that came with some negative consequences too. In much the same way, if the Raiders/NFL want to fire Gruden, I can understand it. I do think that it is largely a fake "culture" move.

The main outcome I am hoping for is that more emails can be made public and it can blowback on Snyder. I am not expecting anything to change though.
 

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