BGO.C.D. - Offensive

Cincinnati Bengals vs. Washington Redskins - Recap - September 23, 2012 - ESPN


LANDOVER, Md. -- On the first play of the game, quarterback Andy Dalton lined up wide right, rookie receiver Mohamed Sanu took the shotgun snap, and A.J. Green darted downfield to haul in a 73-yard touchdown pass.

"It's tough overthrowing that man," Sanu said. "I just put it where he could go get it."

The Washington Redskins fans came to see some razzle-dazzle in Robert Griffin III's home debut. They saw Dalton and the Cincinnati Bengals do it better.

Sanu-to-Green was just the opening statement in a game full of innovative plays, fancy moves and mood swings. The Bengals produced three first-half touchdowns on plays that snapped the ball to three different players, blew a 17-point lead, rallied in the fourth quarter and survived a bizarre final sequence Sunday in a 38-31 win over the Redskins.

"The creativity that we've got here, talent that we have at wide (receiver), the running backs, the different things that we're doing, it's big," Dalton said. "You try to find a way to get an advantage in the game, and we found a couple today."

The Bengals (2-1) have made their reputation on defense, but now their offense looks in step with the evolving score-a-whole-lot-every-week NFL. Cincinnati's offense has put up 30-plus points in back-to-back weeks for the first time since November 2006.

"We're making plays," Green said, "all over the field."

No doubt about that. They ran several end-arounds, used a no-huddle package that befuddled the Redskins, let BenJarvus Green-Ellis take a direct snap on a 1-yard touchdown run and had touchdown completions of 48, 59 and 73 yards.

Dalton completed 19 of 27 passes for 328 yards and three touchdowns. Green caught nine passes for a career-high 183 yards and a score. The game was tied at 24 when Dalton led a pair of long fourth-quarter drives, hitting tight end Jermaine Gresham on a 6-yard completion to take the lead and Andrew Hawkins down the middle for a 59-yard strike that gave the Bengals a two-touchdown cushion with 7:08 left to play.


I kind of prefer this guy calling plays for us, as opposed to against us.
 
The Bengals offense also died in every play-off game...so I'm not sure what the lesson is here.

I kinda line up with Big Mike on this one. in addition to his thoughts....

At the end of the day...it still appears that ON AVERAGE a good to great defense is needed to win championships. Lot of teams have gone far with scoring machines....but not to end state.

Agree that the offense should score many more points per game than last season. so can many other teams. hard to predict who comes out on top. also...all the receivers notwithstanding....bet we run more than some here imagine. TX game right out of the gate will be a good test against a stout defense.

SF, Seattle, AZ, St Louis, Greenbay, NO...lotta very good teams in the NFC. our division may strike some as weak....but I think that discounts the long history of dogfights in this division.

There is also the matter of gelling. it doesn't happen overnight. the team will have to define its identity and play to its strengths - which may take a while to discover & master.

One good thing I think is becoming apparent: an inner core of leaders is taking hold of the reigns. leadership, as in all venues of life, matters hugely.

Kinda weird feeling optimistic after a 3-13 dabacle, but it is justified in many respects. that said, too many seasons under this bridge....things are looking up, but I'm definitely in "show me first" mode.
 
You make some great points Fan. And there are some absolutely brutal teams in the NFC.

As far as the Bengal's playoff losses go, everyone deserves some of the blame. It's almost never just one thing. I do think everyone can agree that the QB throwing two interceptions, and fumbling away another turnover all in the second half is pretty tough to come back from.

Andy Dalton flops again as Chargers rally past Bengals in wild-card round - Audibles - SI.com

The Bengals were unbeatable at home during the regular season, posting an 8-0 mark in Paul Brown Stadium. The offense was a borderline juggernaut along the way -- it averaged 41.2 points over its final five home games.

And here's another, from the prior year.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/06/bengals-texans-nfl-playoffs_n_2417255.html

The Bengals made the playoffs three years in a row. In Dalton's first playoff game he threw 3 interceptions. In his third playoff game he threw 2 interceptions, and had one fumble. Now that's not the whole story, but that's a pretty brutal part of it.
 
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McD5 said:
You make some great points Fan. And there are some absolutely brutal teams in the NFC.

As far as the Bengal's playoff losses go, everyone deserves some of the blame. It's almost never just one thing. I do think everyone can agree that the QB throwing two interceptions, and fumbling away another turnover all in the second half is pretty tough to come back from.

Andy Dalton flops again as Chargers rally past Bengals in wild-card round - Audibles - SI.com

The Bengals were unbeatable at home during the regular season, posting an 8-0 mark in Paul Brown Stadium. The offense was a borderline juggernaut along the way -- it averaged 41.2 points over its final five home games.

And here's another, from the prior year.

Bengals Lose To Texans 19-13, Extend Streak Of NFL Playoffs Futility (PHOTOS)

The Bengals made the playoffs three years in a row. In Dalton's first playoff game he threw 3 interceptions. In his third playoff game he threw 2 interceptions, and had one fumble. Now that's not the whole story, but that's a pretty brutal part of it.
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theyn didn't win.
 
I don't want to get in to what he did in the past but instead will say this:

He has the same amount (if not more) talent than he did in Cincy. He has the knowledge to win, he has the tools to win, he has the desire to win. All he needs to do now is translate that in to wins.

The first year coaches mentioned in the past as winners don't really fit in here. Tomlin took over a team that won the super bowl the year before, and Harbaugh took over a team that had every piece but the ones his brother gave him in place when Singletary was removed. Those situations are much different than a coach coming in to a 3-13 team that just went thru as much drama as we did.

But, HTTR! HTTR all day! We can and should win this division outright. Dallass has NO defense, NY is now looking like they should have been smarter in the draft and have pieces just falling apart all over the field. Philthy will be our toughest matchup and we just took their biggest weapon vertically. This SHOULD be our division!
 
Ultimately, the fate of this team will be decided by what happens in regards to Robert Griffin and the level of hunger he has in terms of becoming a true pro.

If it's all football, all the time in relation to the news surrounding the guy, then I think we'll get back to watching an enjoying brand of football like we did two seasons ago.

Otherwise, we'll be staring a 6 win season in the face, regardless of how much you or I might like the things that Jay Gruden brings to the table.
 
The talent on offense alone should get us at least 8 wins. That doesn't mean we're going to win eight games, though.

We're going to find out real quick just how good a coach Gruden really is.
 
The overall point I was making was that we are going to have a very scary offense. I do believe we'll win the division, but like Henry and others have alluded to, that requires more than a scary offense - unless we start putting 40 points on the board routinely :)
 
Boone said:
Many weapons don't translate to points? I would argue that we have a healthy RG3, a top 5 RB, 2 of the best WRs in football, and a stud TE whose potential we have only glimpsed. And we have an offensive-minded head coach who knows how to build a dangerous, aggressive offensive attack. That's not 'depth' - that's raw ****ing talent brother. Watch. You can high-five me and it won't take long for you to want to do it.
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He he I knew I would catch a comment on the points thing. Here's what I mean. Its the ole "not enough balls to go around" thing. You throw to Garcon, your not throwing to Jackson or Reed, you throw to Jackson, you leave out Garcon and Reed. You try to throw to them all, and you leave out Morris. So I don't believe that by adding Jackson you can just add his receptions and production and expect exponential results. That's why I'm looking at the averages. I won't believe we rival the offenses of Saints Patriots Broncos Packers until I actually see it. And I'm not high on the O line anyways. What I do hope will happen, is that now that there are more "options" that we indeed score fast and first, then pound the ball in the second half. That would make for the most satisfying of seasons imho. And that also would keep our defense off the field.

As far as the defense is concerned, I think we have the two best edge rushers in Rak and Kerrigan, but we don't see the production or the results. I don't get it. The rookies and rehabbing vets are going to have to show me, I don't expect them to have impact right away. But that's all OK. I know going in, that we must outscore opponents to win (duh), with 25+ pts or more (again, on the average as we will have some 30-40 pt games but 17 pt games too) to have a successful year. And nothing I would like to see more than for Gruden to earn coach of the year.
 
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But micks - no one's arguing that Jackson will have the same stats sharing time with Garcon, Reed, etc...that's not the point. The point is - how in God's name do defenses cover ALL of our offensive options? They don't, they won't, they can't - that's the answer. And a healthy RG3 is going to shred teams when they can't.

And one of the primary reasons we haven't had an effective pass rush consistently, despite Rak and Kerrigan is that they have been ALL we've had, and that allows teams to scheme and double-team them, or we have to send them from the outside to avoid the extra help. We've added significant pass rush power this offseason, and I think it's going to be a game changer because if teams do try to negate Rak and Ryan, they're going to find Hatcher, or Murphy, or someone else in their backfield.

And when that happens, all of the sudden, our secondary is going to start looking a whole lot better :)
 
I really hope Murphy is the next Urlacher. I have intentionally not looked at his college highlights. I want to see him in pre-season games. I love the great linebacker and you don't just "happen" to lead the nation in sacks at Stanford. He must have the right stuff. I can't wait for this.

And look, if Garcon gets another turf toe, and Reed a concussion where they mandate game time off, then we will be thankful for the depth. Jackson could end up being the star.
 
I will be ecstatic if we win 8 games. You mention the weapons, but you neglect a QB with a fragile ego and an OL that does not look much improved on paper. We did not get rid of our worst OL, Turnstyler, and it looks like our RG will be replaced by a rookie. Our C looks like it will be a 285 pound interior lineman going against men that outweigh him by 30-40 pounds.

I am not saying we haven't improved. Like Boone said, there are a lot more weapons. If Gruden can get Robert throwing routes like you see Peyton throwing, short, concise throws for 6-8 yards at a time, and AlMo running like we know he can...we can drive the ball. But if Robert is going back in 5 or 7 drop patterns, if we face 3rd and long often, we are doomed! The right side of our OL is not cutting it. If Morgan Moses cannot come into camp and make waves to be the starter, then we do not have an upgrade at the weakest position on the team.
 
McD5 said:
Micks, first time head coaches do win now, and often. You mentioned Chip Kelly, but I believe you've forgotten a few.

Mike Tomlin: 10-6

John Harbaugh: 11-5. Led team to two upset victories in the playoffs, and lost in the AFC title game.

Jim Harbaugh(quarterback): Turned a dumpster fire into 13-3. Lost in overtime in the NFC title game. Named NFL coach of the year.

28-3. That's Jay Gruden's number of career winning seasons versus losing seasons as a player and coach combined. And the most impressive part of his 28-3? The great majority of those winning seasons came with less talented teams and tough environments. He's won with some of the cheapest organizations, and most difficult owners.

I'm starting to think that he may have been born for this job.
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Yes those are good examples. Although I think anyone especially Russ Grimm could have won with Pittsburgh. Grimm should have got the job, but where the greatness in Pittsburgh lies is in the def coordinator. Now that's an example of how a coach can make a difference.

And as for John Harbaugh, all I think about is that the Redskins beat the Ravens during the reg season of both their SuperBowls. ;-)
 
Geez, and I thought I had seen it all. These predictions from Boone might be the best I've seen in 15 years. He's right on for so many reasons.

I predicted 5 wins last season. "You're a troll. You're not a real fan. We're winning the division. I'm hype for the documentary."

It's like bizarro world at times.

I love my fellow Skins fans. If you honestly can't see a 180 turn between this year from last, I think your nuts. And I mean that in a very friendly manner. 100% respect, but you're ass crazy.

We're going 10-6 at worst. We will be in the playoffs each of the next four seasons. We will extend this coach. Can we win it all without a great defense? Hell no. Nobody can--not even Denver.

Will we be 10x better than last season? Yes! You can wear that jersey with pride.

Stocks go up, and stocks go down. We're going up. I'm certain of it.

#HTTR
 
Elephant said:
I will be ecstatic if we win 8 games. You mention the weapons, but you neglect a QB with a fragile ego and an OL that does not look much improved on paper. We did not get rid of our worst OL, Turnstyler, and it looks like our RG will be replaced by a rookie. Our C looks like it will be a 285 pound interior lineman going against men that outweigh him by 30-40 pounds.

I am not saying we haven't improved. Like Boone said, there are a lot more weapons. If Gruden can get Robert throwing routes like you see Peyton throwing, short, concise throws for 6-8 yards at a time, and AlMo running like we know he can...we can drive the ball. But if Robert is going back in 5 or 7 drop patterns, if we face 3rd and long often, we are doomed! The right side of our OL is not cutting it. If Morgan Moses cannot come into camp and make waves to be the starter, then we do not have an upgrade at the weakest position on the team.
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Yes I have neglected Griffin. Its driving me crazy thinking about him, I still hear him talking too much for me. I've thought long about it and the best way I can describe him is as a "wild card". Its my belief that when you are damaged you are damaged for life. So I don't know what to expect from him. But if he only gets his completion percentage back up, then its a home run. We can win with him. He doesn't need to be a running threat.
 
micks113 said:
Yes I have neglected Griffin. Its driving me crazy thinking about him, I still hear him talking too much for me. I've thought long about it and the best way I can describe him is as a "wild card". Its my belief that when you are damaged you are damaged for life. So I don't know what to expect from him. But if he only gets his completion percentage back up, then its a home run. We can win with him. He doesn't need to be a running threat.
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To be honest, I am less concerned with him. He should be able to bounce back with the support of a good coach. Gruden seems like a player's coach so far and that should go a long way to developing Robert's confidence.

I am more concerned with the OL. I am not convinced it's been upgraded. And that scares the ever beloving **** out of me. If we face much 3rd and long...we are ****ed!
 
Elephant said:
I will be ecstatic if we win 8 games. You mention the weapons, but you neglect a QB with a fragile ego and an OL that does not look much improved on paper. We did not get rid of our worst OL, Turnstyler, and it looks like our RG will be replaced by a rookie. Our C looks like it will be a 285 pound interior lineman going against men that outweigh him by 30-40 pounds.

I am not saying we haven't improved. Like Boone said, there are a lot more weapons. If Gruden can get Robert throwing routes like you see Peyton throwing, short, concise throws for 6-8 yards at a time, and AlMo running like we know he can...we can drive the ball. But if Robert is going back in 5 or 7 drop patterns, if we face 3rd and long often, we are doomed! The right side of our OL is not cutting it. If Morgan Moses cannot come into camp and make waves to be the starter, then we do not have an upgrade at the weakest position on the team.
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Meh. Objectively, our starting RB is a pro-bowler who was top ten in rushes, rushing yards, rushing yards per game, and ypa last year. Our top WR led the league in receptions last year and was top ten in receiving yards and receiving yards per game. Our #2 WR just went to his third pro-bowl, and was top ten in receiving yards, yards per reception and receiving yards per game. At LT we have a player widely regarded as a top ten player at his position. Our QB is one year removed from Rookie of the Year and a pro-bowl appearance where he posted the highest PR of any rookie QB in the history of the game. Our starting TE is our weakest skill position player, primarily because of health concerns, but he was 6th amongst TEs in receiving yards per game.

If Griffin is truly healthy, the skill positions players on offense are as good as we've seen on this team in over 20 years. All teams have holes, and a weak right side of an OL should be overcome by a mobile QB with the sheer amount of weapons at his disposal. A good coach should get at least 8 wins out of this team with this much firepower. He should be able to scheme around a weak RT. Sorry, you can't have everything. NO team has everything. On offense, the Redskins are as close as most teams get.

No excuses this year. I'm not saying we'll win a lot of games this year, but if we don't it's not for lack of talent.
 
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Henry said:
Meh. Objectively, our starting RB is a pro-bowler who was top ten in rushes, rushing yards, rushing yards per game, and ypa last year. Our top WR led the league in receptions last year and was top ten in receiving yards and receiving yards per game. Our #2 WR just went to his third pro-bowl, and was top ten in receiving yards, yards per reception and receiving yards per game. At LT we have a player widely regarded as a top ten player at his position. Our QB is one year removed from Rookie of the Year and a pro-bowl appearance where he posted the highest PR of any rookie QB in the history of the game. Our starting TE is our weakest skill position player, primarily because of health concerns, but he was 6th amongst TEs in receiving yards per game.

If Griffin is truly healthy, the skill positions players on offense are as good as we've seen on this team in over 20 years. All teams have holes, and a weak right side of an OL should be overcome by a mobile QB with the sheer amount of weapons at his disposal. A good coach should get at least 8 wins out of this team with this much firepower. He should be able to scheme around a weak RT. Sorry, you can't have everything. NO team has everything. On offense, the Redskins are as close as most teams get.

No excuses this year. I'm not saying we'll win a lot of games this year, but if we don't it's not for lack of talent.
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Thanks. You said in 2 paragraphs what it took me 12 to say. Although, to be fair, Om would've taken 20 :)
 
Funny thing is I'm not trying to be positive. I'm not NEARLY as optimistic as you are. :)

All I'm saying is, objectively speaking, this offense is loaded. That's a fact.

I just don't know if that will translate to actual wins. It tends not to on this team.

Like I said, we'll know what Gruden's made of pretty quickly.
 
And the core for a winning franchise starts with the big uglies...on either side of the ball. Yeah, sure...we may flash again and likely win 7-9 games. That's a possibility I don't disagree. But if this team ever wants to win, and be a champion...a few flashy guys on offense are not going to do it. We need an offensive line that will grind out games or we better have the best defense in the league. Our offensive line sucks and I am being objective.
 
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