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BGO.C.D.: Kevin Kolb Gets 'Ramsey-ed'
- Thread starter Boone
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Jugband McGillicuddy
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That comparison never crossed my mind, honestly. But man, that is DEAD on. 
Goaldeje
The Legend
Very good comparison Boone, nicely done. I've thought about that Bears game from time to time as I've seen Ramsey bounce around the league, never really gaining any traction or able to play well. I wonder if that is due to the fact that he is/was not a starting NFL caliber QB, or did that one situation screw him up? Did Gibbs ruin Ramsey with that decision?
Even though it's the Eagles, I hate to see something like that happen to a young QB who might (or might not) be the real deal. Reid thought enough of him to ditch McNabb, so there must be something there, right?
Even though it's the Eagles, I hate to see something like that happen to a young QB who might (or might not) be the real deal. Reid thought enough of him to ditch McNabb, so there must be something there, right?
Boone is rollin' ... good stuff brother.
Tell you what.... Reid may have done the "right thing" short term and by starting Vick will keep the Eagles competitive as we head deeper into 2010 .... but I'm not sure he's done himself or his team a favor long-term.
Vick's in a contract year, I believe. If he plays well enough to lead Philly to the playoffs, say, or even just well enough to be an obvious starter in the league in 2011 ... what does Philly do?
They just jettisoned their perennial Pro Bowl incumbent and signed Kolb to a long-term deal. Wouyld they ante up for that kind of money for Vick as well? Vick would almost have to command big bucks at this point in his career---if he has a big 2010, at this stage of his life 2011 would almost certinaly be his one chance to snag the big-bonus contract to set himself back up for life after the disastrous past few years. If is agent doesn't bag him a monster contract, he ain't doing his job.
If they DO sign vick long term, they have to then 1) dump Kolb; no way he sticks happily, no way they can have 2 big $ QB's around--not these days, and 2) hope like hell Vick has grown up and all his off field stupidity is done. Don't know about you, but to me Mike is not a guy I'm putting a lot of faith in maturity-wise or hanging my franchises hopes and identity on. I'm just not. And this is from a guy who watched every play of Vick's incredible VT career and loved him for it.
Seems to me, wiithout thinking it through TOO much, that for this thing to work out "right" for Reid, what he really needs is for Mike to cool off over the next few weeks (which could well happen as D Coord's start playing to contain him and read coverages, like they did when he was in Atlanta). And by "cool off" I mean play down to the level where it's clearly time to put Kolb back in and riding him to wherever it is they thought he was going to take them when they decided to cut McNabb loose and go with the kid.
Which means, of course, the Eagles would have to lose. Which would be good for US, but not so much for Reid. Depending on how you look at it.
It's all very psychological.
Good luck Andy. Feel free to start losing a lot.
Tell you what.... Reid may have done the "right thing" short term and by starting Vick will keep the Eagles competitive as we head deeper into 2010 .... but I'm not sure he's done himself or his team a favor long-term.
Vick's in a contract year, I believe. If he plays well enough to lead Philly to the playoffs, say, or even just well enough to be an obvious starter in the league in 2011 ... what does Philly do?
They just jettisoned their perennial Pro Bowl incumbent and signed Kolb to a long-term deal. Wouyld they ante up for that kind of money for Vick as well? Vick would almost have to command big bucks at this point in his career---if he has a big 2010, at this stage of his life 2011 would almost certinaly be his one chance to snag the big-bonus contract to set himself back up for life after the disastrous past few years. If is agent doesn't bag him a monster contract, he ain't doing his job.
If they DO sign vick long term, they have to then 1) dump Kolb; no way he sticks happily, no way they can have 2 big $ QB's around--not these days, and 2) hope like hell Vick has grown up and all his off field stupidity is done. Don't know about you, but to me Mike is not a guy I'm putting a lot of faith in maturity-wise or hanging my franchises hopes and identity on. I'm just not. And this is from a guy who watched every play of Vick's incredible VT career and loved him for it.
Seems to me, wiithout thinking it through TOO much, that for this thing to work out "right" for Reid, what he really needs is for Mike to cool off over the next few weeks (which could well happen as D Coord's start playing to contain him and read coverages, like they did when he was in Atlanta). And by "cool off" I mean play down to the level where it's clearly time to put Kolb back in and riding him to wherever it is they thought he was going to take them when they decided to cut McNabb loose and go with the kid.
Which means, of course, the Eagles would have to lose. Which would be good for US, but not so much for Reid. Depending on how you look at it.
It's all very psychological.
Good luck Andy. Feel free to start losing a lot.
Spurrier ruined Ramsey, if in fact, young Patrick was ever NFL starter caliber, which I now think is up for debate. By the time Gibbs got here, I really believe it was too late for Patrick. I didn't think that then but you know what they say about hind sight.
I don't think Reid wanted to ditch Donovan, I really don't. I think that was a decision forced on him by the front office.
There is a madness to Coach Shanahan's method. We just took their best QB. If the Eagles waive one or the other, Coach will pick him up. The following year - ditto.
If you can't join 'em, beat 'em.
Or take their QBs.
If you can't join 'em, beat 'em.
Or take their QBs.
Lanky Livingston
Guest
I can agree with the comparison from a purely "on the field" POV - but overall I don't see it. There are two major differences between the QB situations.
The first is that Gibbs & co. didn't give Ramsey $12M guaranteed for the 2005 season, they only gave him lip-service. Money talks louder than words; while Gibbs was simply "telling" everyone that Ramsey was the starter, the Eagles were paying Kolb like the starter. I believe Vick's contract is mostly performance escalators.
Secondly, Ramsey was not a Gibbs guy, he inherited him. In hindsight, its clear that Gibbs was never fully comfortable with Pat in the backfield. In contrast, Kolb was hand-picked by Andy Reid to lead their team after McNabb left. McNabb left, they anointed Kolb the starter both verbally and monetarily, and then proceeded to yank him after one dominating performance by Vick against the lowly-Lions.
I guess only time will tell if Reid has made the right decision, but in my opinion, it won't be too much longer until the "real Mike Vick" stands up. Kolb will be the starter again.
The first is that Gibbs & co. didn't give Ramsey $12M guaranteed for the 2005 season, they only gave him lip-service. Money talks louder than words; while Gibbs was simply "telling" everyone that Ramsey was the starter, the Eagles were paying Kolb like the starter. I believe Vick's contract is mostly performance escalators.
Secondly, Ramsey was not a Gibbs guy, he inherited him. In hindsight, its clear that Gibbs was never fully comfortable with Pat in the backfield. In contrast, Kolb was hand-picked by Andy Reid to lead their team after McNabb left. McNabb left, they anointed Kolb the starter both verbally and monetarily, and then proceeded to yank him after one dominating performance by Vick against the lowly-Lions.
I guess only time will tell if Reid has made the right decision, but in my opinion, it won't be too much longer until the "real Mike Vick" stands up. Kolb will be the starter again.
the Omniscient
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It is hard to tell if this really is Reid's decision. For the most part he stuck by McNabb throughout his career, with the exception of his brief benching two years ago, I believe it was two years ago. I always thought that Reid was a coach that showed some loyalty to his players. As much as you can anyways. He does not show loyalty to a fault, but he does show more than Bilicheck and a couple of others.
I thought one of the first signs that Reid was not totally in charge was with the release of Brian Dawkings. What coach would get rid of a safety of that caliber? I do not think any of them would, at least none that were in their correct frame of minds. This seemed like a front office deciding to get young and save a few dollars. I think their defense has suffered because of it.
Now they are moving on to Vick at the blink of an eye. Seems fishy to me. Yes, he has the hot hand, but Reid has been studying these two guys for a while now. He should have known prior to the beginning of the season what each one's contributions were going to be. I am not saying he did not, but obviously he felt Kolb was the right QB or the McNabb trade would not have happened.
I think the bigger issue out of all of this is if Vick starts to play poorly. Do you put Kolb in? Has he lost the player's respect at this point? Maybe he has not lost their respect, but will they question whether or not Kolb is the guy to get them to the next level. I think you plant a seed of doubt in the back of their minds. Not good IMO.
I understand riding the hot hand. However, you made a commitment to Kolb. You drafted him, traded a Pro-Bowl QB that has done nothing but win, and denied off season trade requests all because you believe he is the right guy to lead your team. 10 passes into the first game and he is benched in favor of the guy that is playing out of his mind. This may work temporarily, but lets see how it plays in the long run.
I hope Vick does enough for them to trade Kolb to the Browns or another team, and then he starts to suck and come back to earth. It would be very fitting for that organization. Kolb is only signed through the 2011 season. So the Eagles could easily carry his salary and Vick's salary next year. They can sign Vick long term or they can franchise him, if there is a tag next season. If he plays well he will stick and Kolb will be gone. Thank you captain obvious!
At this point I am rambling because I am so tired. If you made it through this post, go grab a cookie, you deserve it.
I thought one of the first signs that Reid was not totally in charge was with the release of Brian Dawkings. What coach would get rid of a safety of that caliber? I do not think any of them would, at least none that were in their correct frame of minds. This seemed like a front office deciding to get young and save a few dollars. I think their defense has suffered because of it.
Now they are moving on to Vick at the blink of an eye. Seems fishy to me. Yes, he has the hot hand, but Reid has been studying these two guys for a while now. He should have known prior to the beginning of the season what each one's contributions were going to be. I am not saying he did not, but obviously he felt Kolb was the right QB or the McNabb trade would not have happened.
I think the bigger issue out of all of this is if Vick starts to play poorly. Do you put Kolb in? Has he lost the player's respect at this point? Maybe he has not lost their respect, but will they question whether or not Kolb is the guy to get them to the next level. I think you plant a seed of doubt in the back of their minds. Not good IMO.
I understand riding the hot hand. However, you made a commitment to Kolb. You drafted him, traded a Pro-Bowl QB that has done nothing but win, and denied off season trade requests all because you believe he is the right guy to lead your team. 10 passes into the first game and he is benched in favor of the guy that is playing out of his mind. This may work temporarily, but lets see how it plays in the long run.
I hope Vick does enough for them to trade Kolb to the Browns or another team, and then he starts to suck and come back to earth. It would be very fitting for that organization. Kolb is only signed through the 2011 season. So the Eagles could easily carry his salary and Vick's salary next year. They can sign Vick long term or they can franchise him, if there is a tag next season. If he plays well he will stick and Kolb will be gone. Thank you captain obvious!
At this point I am rambling because I am so tired. If you made it through this post, go grab a cookie, you deserve it.
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Great comments guys, I appreciate them....and Lanky - I agree, it's not a perfect analogy, just something that's been nagging at me for a couple days.
That, and the opportunity to use the term 'Ramsey-ed' was almost too much to resist
That, and the opportunity to use the term 'Ramsey-ed' was almost too much to resist
CHUBAKAH
Camp Fodder
I think the huge difference is that Patrick Ramsey couldn't hold Knob's jockstrap.
:2cents:
:2cents:
That's not really saying a whole lot.
I mean, Eagles' fans were basing ther hopes on Kolb on a two game performance last season whereas Skins fans were basing there's on an off the bench performance in Tennessee and a couple of 300 yard games.
Not much difference at all..........
I really think we're starting to see the beginning of the end of the Andy Reid era in Philly. This move seems like a "win now", but their offseason seemed more like a rebuilding period of time. This was a bad decision imho and the lack of faith in Kolb could really have long lasting implications.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Vick struggling at some point soon and Kolb is named the starter again. From there, anything can happen and it may not be pretty. The fan revolts in Philly are legendary and this one could be a classic.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Vick struggling at some point soon and Kolb is named the starter again. From there, anything can happen and it may not be pretty. The fan revolts in Philly are legendary and this one could be a classic.
Jimbo
The Franchise Player
Don't forget, Ramsey's pic once ended up on the side of John Madden's horse trailer. Kolb hasn't done much other than get a little hype.
Ramsey probably did get ruined by Spurrier but Gibbs doomed him to career backup status with what he did. Not saying it was wrong but perhaps every new HC should get an extra draft pick with which he must draft a QB. Most HC's who bring in a new system also want a new QB to run that system. As Boone alluded, perhaps Gibbs realized he spoke too soon in giving Ramsey the job and was just looking for a way to insert Brunell.
Reid may have done the same thing in annointing Kolb. The right thing, in both cases, would have been to open up the competition and let the best man win. With the Philly O-Line is disrepair, Vick really IS the smart choice right now. Will he regret the decision in the long run? Perhaps, but Vick is to Reid as Brunell was to Gibbs.....the BEST chance to win now.
Well done, Sir Boone!
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