• Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.

BGO Blind Pig/Official Game Thread: Week 16 - WFT at Dallas

It's time.

MikefromOH

The Hall of Famer
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
12,802
Reaction score
1,640
Points
543
Location
The Land

Navy

I'm not calling for his firing yet. But, as the leader, you have to control the theme and change things when they stop working. We have yet to do that and it's going to fall on him anyways if we don't get better, so why not help it now?

It's not like we can lose to our most hated rival by 42 on national television again this season....
 

Boone

The Commissioner
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
43,448
Reaction score
3,477
Points
2,044
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

The offensive woes can be contributed to Turner’s ineptness….

Whether fielding a M.A.S.H. riddled team or not…
These are the two aspects of the coaching discussion I have the most issues with. Our offense has been playing without our starting QB, our starting TE, our best pass catching RB, behind a makeshift OL and our #2 WR has missed almost the entire season with injuries. One of our only 2 offensive weapons is playing hurt.

Oh - and numerous players are getting over COVID infections including our starting QB.

But they are supposed to win anyway?

You saw in just a game or two what having just one of those pieces (Logan Thomas) semi-healthy immediately did for the offense.

If the offense is inept it’s certainly due to a lot more than just Scott Turner.
 

MikefromOH

The Hall of Famer
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
12,802
Reaction score
1,640
Points
543
Location
The Land

Navy

Adapt, overcome, improvise.

First play of the game we went deep with McLaurin. We continue to throw horrible screens that are easily sniffed out, out routes that we don't have the arm for.

That's all on Scott. He has done nothing to change his game plan even when down by 42.
 

Win4us

Ring of Fame
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
10,577
Reaction score
548
Points
393
Location
Shevlin Minnesota

Air Force

I hear ya Kel on the player acquisitions, thru the draft & FA they’ve been pretty much garbage graded by production. Another offseason of similar player additions will set the team back years & stunt any progress it may have had going forward.

Ron should never have went to the Carolina well of staff as often as he did. Failure to adapt week in and week out is costing them plays, that turn into series, that ultimately cost wins. To me it shows that having familiarity your staff with no new input from outside coaches is a recipe for stagnant play.

Ron should have thought about a diverse staff that have a plethora of outside experience first.
 

DieselPwr44

The Owner's Favorite
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
6,130
Reaction score
471
Points
163
Location
Sparta,NC


I think alot of our concerns over Scott Turner is his basic lack of situational awareness John.

Yes, talent matters,I agree. But at least making adjustments schematically would at least give you hope that the guy is trying and understanding.
Example: Our Oline is down to a fourth string center,Charles at guard etc. Dallas just pins their ears back and comes right after Heinicke. Scott's only answer is a screen or draw.
Why not use Heinicke's legs like Gibbs used to use Theismann's? I know they want to keep him healthy but at some point, you gotta use him, right?
Empty set on 3rd and short in games where the ground game is working? No slants(another blitz beater) in the quick passing game?

There's just reams of questionable strategies when it comes to Scott same as Jack.
 

Henry

I drink and I know things
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
9,928
Reaction score
248
Points
219
Location
Fairfax, VA


I’m not calling for anything specific to be done. I don’t think Rivera should be fired or whatever.

I do think this was a historic, epic loss beyond just “bad thing sometimes happen.”

Does it mean something? Not really, other than nothing really ever changes in Washington. Let’s not read into things too much but let’s not make too many excuses either. It was bad.
 

Win4us

Ring of Fame
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
10,577
Reaction score
548
Points
393
Location
Shevlin Minnesota

Air Force

These are the two aspects of the coaching discussion I have the most issues with. Our offense has been playing without our starting QB, our starting TE, our best pass catching RB, behind a makeshift OL and our #2 WR has missed almost the entire season with injuries. One of our only 2 offensive weapons is playing hurt.

Oh - and numerous players are getting over COVID infections including our starting QB.

But they are supposed to win anyway?

You saw in just a game or two what having just one of those pieces (Logan Thomas) semi-healthy immediately did for the offense.

If the offense is inept it’s certainly due to a lot more than just Scott Turner.
I do not share your faith in Turner, like not even a little bit. Everything you’ve named above is about 90% of the passing game. I’m just a dumb hillbilly but to me that says you run the ball 40 times a game. Use play action to keep the defense honest but run the ball and control the clock. This worked and worked damn well for the 4 game stretch way back when they were winning. When your passing game is practically shit on a stick due to injuries and non availability why Turner abandons it is beyond my comprehension. We won that stretch by running, these are facts.

Turner is inept at in-game playcalling, a fact nobody can deny any more. He’s also responsible for coaching up the 2nd, 3rd & 4th stringers while incorporating them into the game plan. It cannot be any worse if he started Bates, Patterson, Hemingway, etc in place of the injured starters. That’s on Turner and ultimately on Ron as well.
 

Kel Varnsen

2019 BGO Ballers Champ
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
2,844
Reaction score
616
Points
143
Location
Kernersville, NC

High Point

Here's a thought in regards to the heavy criticism that Rivera is taking today out there on social media, etc...

Who have we lost to that we should have beaten legitimately beaten in 2021? Denver maybe?

I mean, for the most part, we have taken care of business against the teams that we should have beaten this year. Sadly, there were only a handful of teams in that category on our schedule this year.

It boils down to a talent issue. There is not nearly enough of it here.
I agree with this from an overall perspective. Looking at the big picture, the Team is right where they should be. The only issue is that they showed they could win against good teams. That if they played a certain way, they could win. So it got our hopes up and we became more disappointed when we saw a deviation from that lead to less success.
 

Chris

The Owner's Favorite
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
7,200
Reaction score
817
Points
243
Location
Boynton Beach, FL


This team yesterday was not going to be successful running any more than it was passing. They faced a legitimate NFL caliber roster with a final preseason group.

As Collinsworth laid out during the game, the one thing all successful NFL teams have in common is a franchise QB. The WFT has an undrafted 28-29 year old QB with nothing but a cup of coffee level of experience until this year. I commend his grit but he is what he is and will not transform into what the team needs to go where the fans would like it to.

As to the injuries and the Covid challenge, there is not a current or past NFL coach (Gibbs included) that could take this QB and those variables and turn this shit sandwich into a Michelin star meal.
 

Kel Varnsen

2019 BGO Ballers Champ
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
2,844
Reaction score
616
Points
143
Location
Kernersville, NC

High Point

This team yesterday was not going to be successful running any more than it was passing. They faced a legitimate NFL caliber roster with a final preseason group.

As Collinsworth laid out during the game, the one thing all successful NFL teams have in common is a franchise QB. The WFT has an undrafted 28-29 year old QB with nothing but a cup of coffee level of experience until this year. I commend his grit but he is what he is and will not transform into what the team needs to go where the fans would like it to.

As to the injuries and the Covid challenge, there is not a current or past NFL coach (Gibbs included) that could take this QB and those variables and turn this shit sandwich into a Michelin star meal.
Maybe not a star, but I remember Gibbs taking a far inferior roster into Dallas on a Monday night and beating a bunch of stars. I’m only bringing that up to reiterate how great Gibbs was. Last night was just an outmanned and out-coached situation. McCarthy may not be a good coach, but he’s shown the last 2 games against the Team he can get a game plan together against Rivera. Quinn especially dominated Turner and Moore has been destroying Del Rio too. It wasn’t that way last year with Moore, but it is now.
 

Chris

The Owner's Favorite
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
7,200
Reaction score
817
Points
243
Location
Boynton Beach, FL


Moore didn’t have an NFL starting caliber QB last year.

He had a washed up Andy Dalton and Ben DiNucci.

It’s amazing how much better coaches can be with talent on the field.
 

Boone

The Commissioner
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
43,448
Reaction score
3,477
Points
2,044
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

My point guys is that the roster is absolutely decimated. I don't care if you love Scott Turner, JDR, or hate them - it really doesn't matter. Throwing out cliches as if this is HS ball where guys just have to 'man up' - it doesn't work that way in the NFL. If the team had anything close to a starting NFL roster left and we got shellacked like that, I'd be right there with you.

And Henry - I'll take your word on last night. But have we ever had a roster and a coaching staff beaten up like this one? I don't believe so. Not ever (and that is SAYING something). Add in two short weeks and a bunch of coaches being out, against a team that just cleaned our clocks 2 weeks ago on the road? There are excuses - and then there are reasons. I don't think any of what this team is going through could be characterized as an excuse.
 

MikefromOH

The Hall of Famer
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
12,802
Reaction score
1,640
Points
543
Location
The Land

Navy

There are hours and hours of coaches from the NFL throwing out cliche speeches that have turned teams around.

These cliches are why we are throwing rocks at the schedule every time we win.
 

Canadian Hog

2019 BGO Ballers Champ
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
484
Points
83
Location
Ontario, Canada


While I can understand where Mitchell is coming from (decades and decades of losing wears on us), Sunday's result was bound to happen. You could feel it coming. The circumstances were perfect as well to allow for that type of result to transpire.

The real test will be the next two weeks. Do we show up against Philly in what is "mathematically" still a meaningful game, or do we mail it in?

That will give you a pretty good sense of the type of hold and influence Rivera has over this group of players, and how 2022/beyond might unfold for this team under his leadership.

If we truly are building towards something and looking at the big picture, you don't play dead in week 17 and 18.

If we do, that could spell trouble.
 

Win4us

Ring of Fame
Joe Gibbs Club Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
10,577
Reaction score
548
Points
393
Location
Shevlin Minnesota

Air Force

Pretty positive I’m in the minority here but I’d much rather the team lose out, but with heart and grit. With less needed trade material the better we can surround the new QB.

If they shit the bed to anything close to what happened against the turds, then I expect a bunch of roster turnover & trade requests this off-season.
 

MikefromOH

The Hall of Famer
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
12,802
Reaction score
1,640
Points
543
Location
The Land

Navy

I didn't see 21-0 in the first quarter happening or the lack of fight (outside of the bench) at all.
 

Boone

The Commissioner
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Apr 11, 2009
Messages
43,448
Reaction score
3,477
Points
2,044
Location
Greensboro, NC

Marine Corps Virginia

While I can understand where Mitchell is coming from (decades and decades of losing wears on us), Sunday's result was bound to happen. You could feel it coming. The circumstances were perfect as well to allow for that type of result to transpire.

The real test will be the next two weeks. Do we show up against Philly in what is "mathematically" still a meaningful game, or do we mail it in?

That will give you a pretty good sense of the type of hold and influence Rivera has over this group of players, and how 2022/beyond might unfold for this team under his leadership.

If we truly are building towards something and looking at the big picture, you don't play dead in week 17 and 18.

If we do, that could spell trouble.
I‘d rather win than lose (always) but if we lose out it’s likely just a further reflection of the watered down roster, half our starters being on IR, etc…I don’t think it would reflect the team ‘giving up’ or be some glaring sign that Rivera and the coaches have lost the team or anything (not that you are arguing that in any way CH).

Regardless of the results over any stretch of the past 2 years I’ve personally never sensed any quitting, discord, or players mailing it in or wishing they were on another squad. Doesn’t mean none of that is there but I haven’t seen it.

I don’t think it’s all that complicated. Healthy we have just enough talent to compete. Devastated by injuries and COVID we aren’t good enough to do that well. I don’t see that magically changing over the next 2 weeks. We’ll have a better chance because neither Philly nor the Giants have the talent or are the matchup nightmare Dallas currently is, but wins are not a given in either game.
 

SilentThreat

Super Bowl MVP
Staff member
BGO Ownership Group
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
8,463
Reaction score
1,564
Points
418
Location
Leesburg, Va


I dont care who was calling plays on Sunday Night, chances are the game ends up with us on the wrong side of the scoreboard.

That said... there can absolutely be things taken from the game within the game. I know i'm probably beating a dead horse here, but I think we have to look deeper. It's fair to say the outcome was inevitable while still being critical of the process. That goes both ways. Look no further than the last game of the season last year against Philly. We all came away from that game 'happy' that we won the division, but it was abundantly clear that Philly handed that game over and we still almost walked away with a loss. The team lost against Tampa the following week, but it was as well prepared and executed as we'd seen in a long time. Chances are we lose that game 9/10 times, but that doesn't mean we cant see things to be excited about. Same thing goes for getting our doors blown off 'when we are supposed to.'
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Private conversations
Help Users
As we enjoy today's conversations, let's remember our dear friend 'Docsandy', Sandy Zier-Teitler, who would dearly love to be here with us today! We love and miss you Sandy ❤
    Top