2025 Washington Commanders- All Things Defense

That whole scheming and working with what you have is what makes coaches earn their paycheck. Any coach in the league could’ve caught lightning in the bottle with Jayden last season. Again we haven’t even been competitive. Even the Titans are playing closer games than us. It’s bad.
 
I understand the optics and the reality of moving on from Quinn. It’s simply not happening.

That said, I do feel like I’ve seen enough this season to not feel very confident he’s going to be the guy that leads us to a Super Bowl. As impressing as last season was, this one has been just the opposite - in a variety of ways. Next season is ultimately a make or break for me on DQ. I like him and even want to love him, he’s an easy guy to root for and you can see why players love him. But this team has come out flat as a pancake on multiple occasions, where errors are routine, and it’s alarming to me. To get whooped by 20 or more, 4 weeks in a row is bottom of the barrel. Tough for me to have much faith in the guy in charge of that.

I am just going with the rap on his personality and drive. Peters, too. I didn't realize it initially but over time for example I learned that Rivera wasn't the hardest work, Jay, too.

From what I've heard about both Quinn and Peters is they are driven as heck and work around the clock, especially Peters.

I don't think the losing ate up Rivera. i do think its likely eating up Quinn. Coming from someone who didn't care for Whitt after season 1, I totally got why he came back for season 2. Newbee coordinators generally deserve 2 years.

The fact that Quinn demoted Whitt within a year and half I find to be very promising. Not because i think it makes a big difference for this season. But it shows some cut throat in Quinn and that was my major concern about him, is he too nice?

I am expecting an off season with a vengence from Peters, Quinn, Jayden. As I talked about weeks back with Voice_of_Reason it feels like in a trilogy, that 2nd movie is a setback, its dark. it felt a bit like this to me leading into the season, I didn't think it would be this dark. But I get it considering the injuries and tough schedule.

As much of a skunk at the party I was leading into this season, i am feeling very optimisitic about next season.
 
That whole scheming and working with what you have is what makes coaches earn their paycheck. Any coach in the league could’ve caught lightning in the bottle with Jayden last season. Again we haven’t even been competitive. Even the Titans are playing closer games than us. It’s bad.

I'd trade any team including the Titans roster for our current roster.

I had to be one of the leading worriers and critics about the off season before it was cool. But I do think people are overreacting to what's going on in the context of the future.

Injuries aren't just bad -- it feels historically bad. there are other reasons for the bad season. But I do think they are 100% of why the team looks like a dumpster fire.
 
Quinn helped get our franchise QB injured again and he has employed a terrible defense and he's supposed to be known as a defense guy. I won't be sad to see him leave either. 28-3..never forget.

DQ blowing that 28-3 lead in the Super Bowl is one of the worst coaching performances ever, so I’ve been skeptical of him from the start, but you really can’t blame him for the fact Jayden got injured every other time he took the field this season.

Honestly our whole team is banged up, right there with JD. There is really nobody to blame. Players play, it’s just bad luck. There is nothing to do but hope and pray for good health.
 
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I think where we depart is this point but let me know if i am misreading you? Your point is A. My point is B

A. Quinn is watching practice and sees what Whitt is doing, so if there is any poor coaching going on, Quinn should spot it and correct it.

And I do think there is something to this. I don't dimiss this as an issue. how for example this coaching staff trains for example the players as to run fits, etc, can likely be improved and its driven by practice. But i don't think this is the crux of the problem. But a problem. And it sounds like they'vve in recent weeks have worked to try to address some of this by additional walk throughs, etc. but too little too late. But I don't think this is the #1 issue with the defense.

B. I think the bigger plot line isn't practice. the bigger plot line is the part that Arians talks about which is the chess game and the ton of preperation involved in studying the opponent's offense and QB. If I did X, they will do Y, etc. The coordinator generally does that prep alone with their assistants. Not the head coach. It's an exhaustive process according to Arians and takes a ton of time. So Quinn has to trust Whitt fully on this. Whitt I'd bet explains the plan and why, etc to Quinn leading into the week. But unless Quinn thinks dude you don't know what you are doing, i am going to quietly prepare this week too as if I am calling the defense and am going to dig in and prepare for the offense -- he's going to just trust Whitt until he doesn't.

As for practice. You can work your ass off executing a plan that sucks. But Quinn has to trust the coordinator to create the plan. They come up with the strategy. The practice which you are referencing is more about execution. Are the properly executing Whitt's plan. but what if the plan is the problem not the execution. And the only way for Quinn to know is to dig in and play defensive coordinator for a week and do his own game planning.

Whitt seems to have an excuse every week so i am gathering that's what he explains to Quinn. He had the right plan, but... The idea that Quinn watches practice doesn't have any bearing on game planning. The game planning is already done by Whitt. If you notice their excuse of late centers on how they are asking the defense does too much so lets simplify, etc. So that has the premise of we got the right strategy we just need to give the more simple ways to execute it. The excuses are very execution centered as opposed to strategy. But the kicker for me was listening to Keim's podcast where he hit hard the problems with the strategy.

You trust Whitt until you don't. Now that he officially threw in the towell its over for Whitt. But he waited to allow his pal to work his way out of this. And my criticism of Quinn isn't that he's likely part of the bad game planning. I doubt that. He's a very accomplished D coordinator on his own. My criticism is that he waited for the season to unravel before dumping his pal. Is it too late to fix it? Probably. And that's because the lineup now is beyond bad. I don't think Spags and Fangio or name that elite coordinator can turn this unit until anything good.

But at the same time I get giving a new coordinator 2 years. I think this move is a big deal because it basically guarantees Whitt isn't running the defense next year.

Yeah I think you pretty much nailed it. With the additional point that I literally want to know what Quinn is actually doing all day, physically where is he and what he is doing during meetings in his capacity as CEO HC. He has admin help, some of the best in the league. He has a full football FO and business side of the FO fleshed out, that’s not on his plate. The idea was for him to be able to focus on managing the entire football coaching operation using what he’s learned in his long career, without distractions. Okay, what does that look like?

A lot of these meetings take place throughout the week. Not all of it is grinding tape till midnight, and a lot of tallying tendencies of future opponents, etc. goes to hard working (basically abused) quality control assistant coaches who then write up a scouting report for the other coaches and coordinators (McVay has talked a lot about what doing that sort of tape dog work was like for various coaches and how unsung it is). So a lot of the game planning comes during the daytime defensive and offensive staff meetings, using conclusions collected by the lower dudes on the totem pole who do nothing but watch cut-ups, along with some input from the pro personnel scouting department for opponents’ player-specific tendencies and techniques.

I’m simply wondering where Quinn is during this stuff, because I’ve always assumed that while he’s not neck deep in the X’s and O’s like a coordinator 24/7, that these staff meetings where the majority of macro game planning happens include his oversight and input.

I just don’t agree with the pretext that Whitt is able to lay out an asinine plan that’s difficult to execute for the players, and because Quinn isn’t grinding tape all the time he just can’t see the errors Whitt is making because he must trust his assumptions and conclusions 100% in the moment without doing full DC prep. I get what you’re saying, but I don’t see how anyone as experienced and successful as Quinn in that same role can be walked through the game plan by Whitt week after week and not be turned off by the faulty central ideas and strategies that lead to such a shit show each week. Where’s the organizational or communication breakdown that allows Quinn to miss such glaring issues that we on a message board can see, that tape grinders on Twitter can see, etc.

And it sounds like we pretty much agree on the practice stuff. Not the biggest issue, more of a systemic issue going back to training camp, likely to change with whatever future DC we hire…but still puzzling as to why Quinn didn’t step in earlier to correct or adjust poorly conceived practices being laid out to the players from their position coaches, trickling down from Whitt’s direction.
 
Apparently if we lose by 21 plus on Sunday it will be the first time a team has lost by 21 plus in five straight games since 1965. Even in our worst and darkest years it was never this bad. Thats enough to fire Quinn imo. Just not even showing up at this point.

No doubt we have been historically bad this year, and I’m probably as unhappy about that as anybody here, but scapegoating one guy is too easy and won’t help.

This team had their best season in three decades last year, and they’ve had very bad luck with injuries this year, so they deserve a chance to turn things around. And as skeptical of DQ as I am, it is clear players love him. I listen to a lot of press conferences and player interviews, and judging by those, I would say the culture is much better than you would expect given the circumstances. Maybe DQ won’t work out, but we should give him at least the rest of this season and next before making that call.

I’ve seen a lot of coaching changes over the years: Gibbs, Petitbon, Schottenheimer, Spurrier, Gibbs II, Zorn, Shanahan, Gruden, and Rivera. Sometimes they’re good, usually not, but one thing I have learned is you need to give them a few years before you know, and change isn’t always for the better. Sure it was good to be done with guys like Zorn, but many of us hated Shanahan, and basically his entire staff is succeeding as head coaches.
 
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That whole scheming and working with what you have is what makes coaches earn their paycheck. Any coach in the league could’ve caught lightning in the bottle with Jayden last season. Again we haven’t even been competitive. Even the Titans are playing closer games than us. It’s bad.

Riverboat Ron even had a couple great years with Cam Newton blowing up defensive gaameplans similar to JD last year. Hell, they even made it to the SB once and had a legit defense too.

This current not being able to do anything about anything is completely unacceptable.

Teams have scored pretty much at will since the Cowboys game. Andy Reid wasn't even worried and basically laughed off the first half when our defense showed up for 2 drives in that game.
 
Bottom line with defense with this franchise is that this team has been shopping at the bargain bin for defensive coordinators since Gibbs II when Snyder made Greggg the highest paid DC in the NFL.

Zorn kept Old Man Blache, Shanahan brought Haslett from the UFL, Gruden promoted Manusky (who had been a JAG DC with 3 teams prior), Ron brought in JDR from ESPN and DQ brought in his unproven buddy from Dallas.

If we go swing big for a guy like Gannon, it’ll be the first time in 20 years we’ve taken a big swing at a big time DC
 
So obviously we'll be searching for a new DC this off-season. Who are some decent names out there?? I honestly don't know much about Gannon. This is the only team I follow closely
 
I have grown so tired of the injury excuse. I have always been an Armstrong fan, thought he played much better than he was given credit for. But sorry losing Armstrong, Wise and Baptiste should never turn a defense into whatever that is we are seeing every week. We have played teams that have had just as many injuries, in some cases more, and they didn't skip a beat.
 
I have grown so tired of the injury excuse. I have always been an Armstrong fan, thought he played much better than he was given credit for. But sorry losing Armstrong, Wise and Baptiste should never turn a defense into whatever that is we are seeing every week. We have played teams that have had just as many injuries, in some cases more, and they didn't skip a beat.
You are right and could add Drake Jackson in but he was injured before he came here. We have also experienced numerous multigame injuries in the backfield along with a couple of LBs. I think it's more the amount of players each week, mostly expected starters that have been lost on both sides of the ball including of course our QB and top WR's
 
I have grown so tired of the injury excuse. I have always been an Armstrong fan, thought he played much better than he was given credit for. But sorry losing Armstrong, Wise and Baptiste should never turn a defense into whatever that is we are seeing every week. We have played teams that have had just as many injuries, in some cases more, and they didn't skip a beat.

Honestly, I’m tired of the excuses too, so I get that, but you forgot Harris, who was expected to play a big role, and now that he is poised for return we lost Lattimore and Amos too. It’s been bad.
 
Honestly, I’m tired of the excuses too, so I get that, but you forgot Harris, who was expected to play a big role, and now that he is poised for return we lost Lattimore and Amos too. It’s been bad.
The defense was horrible long before the injury to Amos. And nobody is confusing Will Harris with Sean Taylor, I doubt he would have changed anything. We have played teams with decimated OLs or secondaries and they didn't look like we have looked.

2 injuries should never derail an entire offense. No this is not about the players who were injured, it's about the players they were really counting on playing like dog shit.
 
I can’t think of any team that has had as many injuries, sprinkled across both sides of the ball, that haven’t skipped a beat.

You can overcome a run of injuries on one side of the ball if you are loaded on the other, like Detroit last season, but both sides? I’m highly skeptical of that.
 
I can’t think of any team that has had as many injuries, sprinkled across both sides of the ball, that haven’t skipped a beat.

You can overcome a run of injuries on one side of the ball if you are loaded on the other, like Detroit last season, but both sides? I’m highly skeptical of that.
Last week the Lions sat 6 players due to injury, the same number as Washington. Their injury report from 11/10 including Injured Reserve consists of 17 players. Washington has 11. Last season the Lion's secondary was decimated, they were starting multiple players who were sitting on their couch. Hutchison was gone early too and they still went 15-2.

Yes we lost Terry and Jayden, other teams have lost star players as well. It was bad this season no doubt. But this is not the reason their season is over.
 
The vast majority of the Lions injuries were on the defensive side. I’m referencing both sides of the ball. Would they have had that success with those injuries on defense and without, say, Goff, Gibbs, and St. Brown?
 
The vast majority of the Lions injuries were on the defensive side. I’m referencing both sides of the ball. Would they have had that success with those injuries on defense and without, say, Goff, Gibbs, and St. Brown?
I was talking about the overall injury lists. Obviously most of Detroit's have been on the defensive side, the point remains Detroit lost far more players and their defense never look like ours. Our defense had a few injuries, no more and hardly the worst we've seen. Other defenses could surely survive the loss of players like Will Harris; But the players on Washington who have not been injured are much more of the problem on both sides of the ball than losing a Wise or Noah Brown.

Of course an injury to your starting QB is much more significant, no team can win with that. But again they were struggling even when Jayden was healthy and the players we have lost for the most part weren't that good in the first place with the exception of Jayden, Terry and possibly Armstrong.
 
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I think it’s understandable to have a dip in production with lots of injuries. You’d expect a fairly significant dip when a number of those injuries are to key players (Jayden, Terry and Armstrong for us). When you have a roster that’s generally somewhat questionable, without years of quality drafting to support those injuries, you’d expect the issue to be exacerbated. Not sure how many favors we’ve gotten from coaching either, mainly on the defensive side.
 
I was talking about the overall injury lists. Obviously most of Detroit's have been on the defensive side, the point remains Detroit lost far more players and their defense never look like ours. Our defense had a few injuries, no more and hardly the worst we've seen. Other defenses could surely survive the loss of players like Will Harris; But the players on Washington who have not been injured are much more of the problem on both sides of the ball than losing a Wise or Noah Brown.

Of course an injury to your starting QB is much more significant, no team can win with that. But again they were struggling even when Jayden was healthy and the players we have lost for the most part weren't that good in the first place with the exception of Jayden, Terry and possibly Armstrong.
My first thought is that while Detroit’s D probably lost far more last year than we have this year, they were also starting from a much, much better point than we were. On top of that, they had an elite offense to take up some of the slack. My presumption is that they have better coaching on the defensive side as well.

As far as coaching, I feel for Whitt. Not that I believe he’s a quality DC, but he hasn’t been dealt the best hand either.
When he’s committed bodies to stopping the run, we had some success on that front. But that leads to Wagner playing man against a back, no safety help for Lattimore or Sainristil, etc. We’ve had some success with putting pressure on qbs (especially early in the season), but that pressure doesn’t amount to much when guys are running free and the qb can unload the ball before the pressure gets to him. The defense has also had to deal with a number of key turnovers by our O and even ST, and far more stalled drives then last year. And then just generally, the already lackluster defensive roster has had it’s issues compounded by injuries. Tough break for Whitt.

I’ll add that while I agree that too much can be made of the “well, he’s trying different things” point, he’s also having to try these things after (likely) not practicing them in the offseason. On top of that, I’d guess that our D looked far better in practices going against an offense that was missing key players (Terry most notably) and with Allegretti and Conerly on the line. Which might explain the staff feeling like Quan was due for a big year, among other things. Now, with that all said, it’s still ridiculous to have this degree of confusion, guys wide open consistently, and the D looking this porous against the run. It’s quite apparent that offenses can see us stacking the box and just play pitch and catch, or see a light box (as we drop an extra body into coverage) and running it down our throats… and I have to think that’s an area where coaching (or lack thereof) matters.
 
Yeah I think you pretty much nailed it. With the additional point that I literally want to know what Quinn is actually doing all day, physically where is he and what he is doing during meetings in his capacity as CEO HC. He has admin help, some of the best in the league. He has a full football FO and business side of the FO fleshed out, that’s not on his plate. The idea was for him to be able to focus on managing the entire football coaching operation using what he’s learned in his long career, without distractions. Okay, what does that look like?

A lot of these meetings take place throughout the week. Not all of it is grinding tape till midnight, and a lot of tallying tendencies of future opponents, etc. goes to hard working (basically abused) quality control assistant coaches who then write up a scouting report for the other coaches and coordinators (McVay has talked a lot about what doing that sort of tape dog work was like for various coaches and how unsung it is). So a lot of the game planning comes during the daytime defensive and offensive staff meetings, using conclusions collected by the lower dudes on the totem pole who do nothing but watch cut-ups, along with some input from the pro personnel scouting department for opponents’ player-specific tendencies and techniques.

I’m simply wondering where Quinn is during this stuff, because I’ve always assumed that while he’s not neck deep in the X’s and O’s like a coordinator 24/7, that these staff meetings where the majority of macro game planning happens include his oversight and input.

I just don’t agree with the pretext that Whitt is able to lay out an asinine plan that’s difficult to execute for the players, and because Quinn isn’t grinding tape all the time he just can’t see the errors Whitt is making because he must trust his assumptions and conclusions 100% in the moment without doing full DC prep. I get what you’re saying, but I don’t see how anyone as experienced and successful as Quinn in that same role can be walked through the game plan by Whitt week after week and not be turned off by the faulty central ideas and strategies that lead to such a shit show each week. Where’s the organizational or communication breakdown that allows Quinn to miss such glaring issues that we on a message board can see, that tape grinders on Twitter can see, etc.

And it sounds like we pretty much agree on the practice stuff. Not the biggest issue, more of a systemic issue going back to training camp, likely to change with whatever future DC we hire…but still puzzling as to why Quinn didn’t step in earlier to correct or adjust poorly conceived practices being laid out to the players from their position coaches, trickling down from Whitt’s direction.

for my take which is just a guess. It's basically based on these three ideas.

A. Quinn when he talked about what he learned from the previous stint is he needs to be more of a head coach this team than he was in Atlanta and less involved with X's and O's. It hit me at the time because it felt over the top but he really stressed the point hard.

B. Basically demoting his close friend within a year and a half is an extreme decision.

C. Human nature to me if you are giving a new coordinator a shot to run a defense -- you aren't going to override him. Especially if its a friend. It's his baby. I would assume he sold it that way to Whitt saying hey I am not going to be a HC-coordinator this is yours. So I gather letting Whitt do his thing would be keeping his word to hi,.

It feels to me that Quinn's involvement with play calling would be all or nothing versus hey Whitt let me override you on that call or this call, and lets turn this unit into a Lennon-McCartney collobration where we are somewhat co-coordinators, etc. I am guessing that in Quinn's shoes I am either ripping the whole bandaid off or not. I don't see some easy half measure before hand.
 

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