A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #1
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    Default Redskins Should Trade for Orton

    It is becoming increasingly clear that despite the draft picks spent on WR this offseason and the choice of Trent Williams and the trade for Jammal Brown on the OL, that both areas continue to be ones where any noticeable improvement is lacking.

    With that in mind, I am thinking next April the Redskins are going to need to use that #1 pick and perhaps the #2 as well on OL and WR.

    This club is in a morass right now at quarterback, with a 31 year old Grossman and a 30 year old Beck who has no NFL experience.

    Orton, 28, is younger and has greater NFL experience than either player here now and will come cheaply now that he has been benched in Denver and is a pending free agent.

    Trading for Orton and letting him use the rest of the season to acclimate to the offense and the players, will allow the Redskins to go into the offseason with at least one NFL caliber player at the position, with the opportunity to address these other areas of need.

    It seems clear that Orton has been run out of Denver in favor of a crowd hero in Tebow who soon will learn what trying to turn lemons into lemonade on a Broncos team without talent is all about

    His performance the past couple of years indicates to me that with a good supporting cast Orton is a quarterback who can take a team to 10-6 or 11-5 and the postseason.

    It's really been 1999 since Brad Johnson was here and healthy that you could say that about a Washington quarterback.
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  2. #2
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    Florida State

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    Orton isn't the answer. Not even close.

    We played one of the most talented teams in the league today. We kept it within 10 points.

    Orton is average. We need better than that.
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  3. #3
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    College at Brockport

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    I'd say Orton competed with Grossman, in a pretty close heat, in Chicago. I'm not sure Orton is that much better than Rex.

    Going into next season, we need to shore up QB, ILB, CB, RT, RG, C and WR along with DL depth. If we're in position to draft a quarterback, we have to take that opportunity. Andrew Luck will likely be out of play and drafted #1 to Indianapolis (I'm calling it ). Robert Griffin will probably stay in school. That leaves us with, in my opinion, Ryan Tannehill as the best QB on the board.

    In the last two NFL drafts, I believe the Redskins have drafted ONLY seniors. I'm sure there are exceptions to that rule, but guys like Ryan Tannehill fit that mold. If not Tannehill, the 'Skins may wait until the fifth round to pick up a guy like Kellen Moore. Kellen Moore is a smart, football savvy, hard working kid who is the leader of that Boise State team. I think he fits the Shanahan vision to a tee.

    If we're not in a position to grab a top echelon QB (I'm not as high on Matt Barkley and Landry Jones for this team/system as many are, so they aren't really considerations in my eye) going into free agency, I think we need to POUNCE on Matt Flynn. He's set to be a free agent next year and I think he'd be a valuable asset to the Redskins. Unfortunately, though, I think we need to stick with what we have this year, and not give up a draft choice for a "Barely better than Grossman" Kyle Orton.
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    Marine Corps Virginia

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    Orton would look like a consummate pro compared to what we have. I argued it was a no-brainer to bring him in this Summer.
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  5. #5
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    Florida State

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    Orton is average. He isn't leading anyone to the SB.

    First round exit? Sure.

    The problem is that we have seen such crap here for years, that Orton seems like an answer.

    He isn't. He blows.

    Building a team takes time. No rush people.
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  6. #6
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    Default

    The game today was not as close as the final score would indicate. The Redskins were dominated for the majority of the game and only scored a touchdown with 5 minutes left in the contest.

    If you go back and look at the numbers that Orton put up the past 2 years in Denver and compare that to the guys we currently have or other starting qbs in the NFL, his performance has been solid, especially considering the state of HIS offensive line, running backs and receivers.

    Part of the equation here is that we don't seem to be improving at some other critical positions and I don't know that going into Year 3 of the 'program', that the correct answer is to go out and draft a rookie in the middle of Round 1 or 2 and start him.

    That to me only brings us back to being a 5-11 or 6-10 team next year as well.

    Trade for Orton and THEN bring in a franchise WR with that top pick and/or a top lineman.

    Anyone been impressed with Jammal Brown, 31, at right tackle the past 2 years?

    Anyone been impressed with the interior OL either?

    At WR, we don't even have one of the receivers we drafted on the field even as the #4 receiver. So, either the guys we have out there as the #1-#4 receivers are great players or the newcomers don't show much immediate promise.
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  7. #7
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    College at Brockport

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    You didn't comment on Matt Flynn.
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    Default

    Hell, we would be in better shape at the position this season (and last) if we'd kept Campbell.

    There, I said it.
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  9. #9
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    Default

    'barely better than Grossman'......

    well, once again go back to the NFL almanac online and look at Orton's stats the past two years throwing for over 3,000 yards and 20 touchdowns and come back and tell me that these are similar to the stats that Grossman puts up

    oh, that's right. Grossman hasn't been a full-time starter in the NFL since 2007.
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  10. #10
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    Florida State

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    BT.......McNabb threw for almost 4k yards, and started only 75% of the season.

    So Orton threw for 3,000? Wow!

    Orton sucks. We still have work to do. This will take a few years.

    They have better players than we do. That's it. We'll get there.
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  11. #11
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    College at Brockport

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    'barely better than Grossman'......

    well, once again go back to the NFL almanac online and look at Orton's stats the past two years throwing for over 3,000 yards and 20 touchdowns and come back and tell me that these are similar to the stats that Grossman puts up

    oh, that's right. Grossman hasn't been a full-time starter in the NFL since 2007.
    Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot how outstanding 3,000 yards and 20 touchdowns are.

    Jason Campbell threw for 3618 yards and 20 TDs in 2009. Since when is that the barometer for quarterback play. But you're right. Trading for a sub standard QB would fix all of our issues. Keep putting band aids on the gaping wound and it'll heal, right?
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  12. #12
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    Default

    So, you go into next season, draft a quarterback and then wait 2-3 additional years for him to develop?

    How old do you want to be before the Redskins are even a wildcard contender?

    The problem is that unlike Detroit or the Rams, the Redskins didn't garner the #1 overall pick and get a chance to take a franchise quarterback and the team also has spent the first two seasons under this coaching staff without drafting ANY players that are being developed to take over.

    So, after the 2011 season ends the Redskins will be starting from SCRATCH.

    THAT is the situation I am alluding to right now.

    And with the dearth of talent right now on the OL and at WR in terms of having a bona fide playmaker, the team simply can't take a qb #1 and put him on the bench and leave these other areas unaddressed.

    I would only make this trade IF I could get Orton at a favorable price

    I am not in favor of trading a #2 pick for him. I am not in favor of trading Ryan Kerrigan for him

    But one up for a middle round pick seems reasonable and a potential good value for a team that right now doesn't have a quarterback who can throw a 20 yard out pass.
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    College at Brockport

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    You're still not reading. I've said it twice. I'll say it a third time. Matt Flynn may be available. And yes, I believe we need to develop a QB if Shanahan doesn't believe Flynn is the answer or we don't get him. Band aids don't heal wounds the require stitches.
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    Florida State

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    BT....then why not just sign 4,000 yards McNabb to come in?

    That isn't the answer.

    We just went from being one of the worst teams in the league, to being respectable.

    We aren't going to the top so fast.
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    James Madison

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    Flynn's not a bad idea, if the price is right (ie, less than a 5th). Orton is intriguing, but strikes me as a guy who puts up good numbers without necessarily making his team better. BT, I agree that we have so many other needs that putting off what we can is not a bad idea, but I'm not convinced QB is something we should put off.

    You mention WR as an area of need. I would like to see more of the youngsters play to see what we have. Stallworth, Gaffney and Armstrong have contributed very little to this point, are we afraid that playing Paul, Austin and Hank will net us less? I would argue that OLine is the top priority outside of QB. We need starters and depth.
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

  16. #16
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    So, we draft a quarterback and decide to develop him in 2012.

    We are going into Year 3 of the rebuild. So, you are planning on adding another what, 2-3 years onto that process?

    The last time I checked I see teams in the NFL that are able to go from 5-11 to 10-6 in one or two years.

    Shanahan has a five year contract with the Redskins.

    I don't think it would be acceptable given the ability to change the roster through the draft and free agency over that time to be going into Year 4 or 5 still hoping to develop a quarterback who can produce solid results.

    It's a shame the Redskins weren't just quite bad enough to get a Matthew Stafford or Sam Bradford in the draft, but the reality is that after 2011 the team isn't going to be in position to garner that top player in April again.

    This team will be just good enough at say 7-9 to miss out on those picks.

    So, once again the question comes around. Do you select a quarterback from college and gamble your top choice that he can be a fit and develop here?

    Because if the team makes that selection and they miss or like Alex Smith it takes 6 years for him to become what you guys seem to detest, the 'solid or average' NFL quarterback, how many of you are going to be complaining?
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  17. #17

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    Default

    I dunno, we seem to still need a NT and decent CB pretty bad to me? Jus' sayin.


    We're still rebuilding folks. Stop trying to Cerrato -it- up
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    James Madison

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    So are you arguing that Orton would be a long term answer? Or that we would be drafting a developmental QB in there somewhere?
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

  19. #19

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    Marine Corps Virginia

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    I think Bulldog is stating the obvious. We won't be in a position to pick a franchise QB any time soon.

    In terms of 'rebuilding', that presents a significant dilemma.
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  20. #20
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    Trade for Orton now for a reasonable price and put a legitimate NFL passer on the field. You get the balance of this season and some OTAs to determine whether he fits into the plan for the back end of the 5 year contract the Shanahans are working on with the team.

    Yes, I would ALWAYS be looking to grab a young quarterback with size and skills to develop for down the road. That process wouldn't end because I trade for Orton.

    But the immediate pressure of having a rookie step on the field wouldn't be there and you could also use that #1 pick on securing a top flight talent at WR like the Lions, Cardinals, Texans, and others have.

    This team also needs to reassess what it has on the offensive line. Trent Williams has been spotty and is injured again (he missed time last year as well). Jammal Brown hasn't impressed anyone at RT as far as I know.

    And those are your building blocks?

    That #1 pick may be needed in other areas than qb in 2012.
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