2025 Washington Commanders- All Things Offense

Voice_of_Reason said:

I mean, Maye came through last night in clutch spots to beat the bills. We’ll see if they continues but he played really well last night in big spots.

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I know. Most QBs do. The question is do they major in it. As much as Kirk for example gets killed for not being clutch he's still had plenty of big clutch moments including even in the post season. But is that his gig? No really. But its not binary where its all or nothing.

Jayden is really special in big moments and in big games.

When watching Maye in college, he would falter in some big spots. Last year he was meh in the 4th quarter. I dived really deep into Maye and Jayden before that draft. Like I said loved both players but my concern with Maye is him in big moments -- coupled with his personality reminded me a little of Kirk on one front which is they came off as having a bit of a nervous personality.

Having said that the book isn't written yet on Maye, so he can emerge as a clutch QB. But having a clutch game or two isn't enough to convince me, I'd expect that from most good QBs. Herbert for example is crticized by some as lacking that clutch gene -- but its not as if he never displays it.

I think any good QB can beat you with the game on the line. But some are consistently special in those moments. Jayden is one of those IMO. Will see if Maye is the same.

skinsinparadise I feel you man

I leaned towards Maye simply because of RGIII. Skinny QBs who absorbed big hits in college scared me. Daniels is a better passer and seems to have some self preservation instincts. It does take a big hit for him to turn the lights on. Last year, it was the Giants game. He got clobbered there and then started playing smarter in his efforts to avoid the hits. This year, I think it was Green Bay.

We want him to be daring, but not reckless.

burgold said:

I leaned towards Maye simply because of RGIII. Skinny QBs who absorbed big hits in college scared me. Daniels is a better passer and seems to have some self preservation instincts. It does take a big hit for him to turn the lights on. Last year, it was the Giants game. He got clobbered there and then started playing smarter in his efforts to avoid the hits. This year, I think it was Green Bay.

We want him to be daring, but not reckless.

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Tough call for me as to the two of them as to purely college games.

A. What i loved about Maye is he looks like the prototype QB physically and he can make some wicked throws on every level -- 1st, 2nd, 3rd level, in and out, everywhere. My concerns were big moments in big games and touch on 1st level throws -- he can be oddly wild on simple screen throws, hitches, etc which reminded me on that front of Haskins (RIP). Some really killed Maye in the draft process among the draft geek types by focusing on his bad plays. And yeah he had 3 really bad games in his last college season but if you get past those games he was really good.

B. What I loved about Jayden is his mobility and consistency. He has what Arians talked about in his QB book that's a key to be a great QB -- that is, consistent mechanics. He threw more out routes in college and didn't throw as much on the 2nd level and to the middle of the field but when he did he was good at it. Ditto as to throwing on the move. But he was so smooth and effortless. Also the rap on him as a dude was that he had that Peyton Manning-Brady maniac level work ethic. You didn't really hear the same about Maye on that front -- not that Maye doesn't work hard hard but you didn't get that same vibe as Jayden as to being obsessed with football.

I think both end up excellent, I'd bet on Jayden though as the better one and that's not me being a homer. I genuinely think that Maye has more flaws in his game. And more on point, Jayden seems to have that magic clutch-big game gene that gives me confidence Washington can win a SB.

As for Maye, I got to see him evolve into being that clutch-magic dude with the game on the line. Per my prior post on the point, I don't judge that quality by whether a QB does it on occasion. They pretty much all do it on occasion. But some have that gamer gene where they reach a different strata consistently in big moments. Jayden definitiely has it. There are some others in this league who scare the hell out of me in big moments -- dudes like Mayfield.

Maye from what I saw of him in college and last season doesn't freak me out in big games, big moments. Maybe he will over time. But yeah watching him in interviews he seems to be brimming with nervous energy and maybe that's part of my bias against him on that front, along with some of his play. Jayden on the other hand is a cool cat.

This conversation is probably for another thread. My biggest question on Daniels was if he could hit intermediary throws in the middle of the field, mostly because he was never asked to do it in college. And I don't think his arm talent is as good as Maye's. Not that it's THAT much worse, but Maye has an A arm, and I think Daniels is an A-. And I was worried if he couldn't hit the tight window throws in the middle of the field, that was going to really be a problem. And it wasn't that I thought he COULDN'T do it, he just never had to do it, so it was an open question.

And now he does it all the time, so that box is checked.

FWIW, that backup kid on Dallas has an A+ arm. Damn. He played a few snaps in whatever blowout loss, and the ball was jumping out of his hand like peak Favre/Elway/Rodgers. It just looked different. That doesn't mean he's a good QB or is going to be a good QB. You need more than an arm for that. But man oh man, that's some special arm talent. I still think peak Elway had the best arm in the history of the NFL, at least the parts I've been able to watch. Favre, Rodgers, Marino are the others who had close to the same velocity. Some said Jeff George had that type of arm, and I disagree. It was good, but not that level.

Voice_of_Reason said:

This conversation is probably for another thread. My biggest question on Daniels was if he could hit intermediary throws in the middle of the field, mostly because he was never asked to do it in college. And I don't think his arm talent is as good as Maye's. Not that it's THAT much worse, but Maye has an A arm, and I think Daniels is an A-. And I was worried if he couldn't hit the tight window throws in the middle of the field, that was going to really be a problem. And it wasn't that I thought he COULDN'T do it, he just never had to do it, so it was an open question.

And now he does it all the time, so that box is checked.

FWIW, that backup kid on Dallas has an A+ arm. Damn. He played a few snaps in whatever blowout loss, and the ball was jumping out of his hand like peak Favre/Elway/Rodgers. It just looked different. That doesn't mean he's a good QB or is going to be a good QB. You need more than an arm for that. But man oh man, that's some special arm talent. I still think peak Elway had the best arm in the history of the NFL, at least the parts I've been able to watch. Favre, Rodgers, Marino are the others who had close to the same velocity. Some said Jeff George had that type of arm, and I disagree. It was good, but not that level.

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The inttermediary tosses were a concern for most of us and yes Jayden checked that off the list immediately.

The two other concerns were will he be able to hold up due to his size. Only time will tell on that but QB's of any size can fall to the injury bug.

The third concern I have for most QBs is, can they become the leader of an NFL huddle, locker room, and team. Jayden has checked this off as well with flying colors.

Voice_of_Reason said:

This conversation is probably for another thread. My biggest question on Daniels was if he could hit intermediary throws in the middle of the field, mostly because he was never asked to do it in college. And I don't think his arm talent is as good as Maye's. Not that it's THAT much worse, but Maye has an A arm, and I think Daniels is an A-. And I was worried if he couldn't hit the tight window throws in the middle of the field, that was going to really be a problem. And it wasn't that I thought he COULDN'T do it, he just never had to do it, so it was an open question.

And now he does it all the time, so that box is checked.

FWIW, that backup kid on Dallas has an A+ arm. Damn. He played a few snaps in whatever blowout loss, and the ball was jumping out of his hand like peak Favre/Elway/Rodgers. It just looked different. That doesn't mean he's a good QB or is going to be a good QB. You need more than an arm for that. But man oh man, that's some special arm talent. I still think peak Elway had the best arm in the history of the NFL, at least the parts I've been able to watch. Favre, Rodgers, Marino are the others who had close to the same velocity. Some said Jeff George had that type of arm, and I disagree. It was good, but not that level.

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Milton probably has the best velocity of any QB in the NFL but his accuracy of course stinks.

Early on in the process during that draft, I used to think Maye's arm was top notch as to velocity. But over time, watching everyone of his games twice, I wasn't wowed by it. I thought he had an overrated arm by some and underrated accuracy. I agree with the scout below. Good arm, not great. I'd put Jayden close to that same class velocity wise, a half of a peg behind but he might have caught up to him this off season or even surpassed him. Jayden albiet older seems to be growing more into that man from a boy frame than Drake. And Jayden talked about (Kliff, too) his arm strength improving this off season. That throw to Luke on Sunday went like 50 yards and he didn't even step into the throw -- very impressive.

Ahead of next week's 2024 NFL draft, an anonymous NFL scout gave their thoughts on how North Carolina's Drake Maye stacks up to some of the current top quarterbacks in the league.
According to ESPN's Jeremy Fowler, an AFC scout graded Maye's arm strength as a 7 out of 10, noting that it is "good but not that good," and not on par with Josh Allen of the Buffalo Bills or Justin Herbert of the Los Angeles Chargers, who are considered two of the strongest-armed quarterbacks in the NFL.

skinsinparadise said:

Milton probably has the best velocity of any QB in the NFL but his accuracy of course stinks.

Early on in the process during that draft, I used to think Maye's arm was top notch as to velocity. But over time, watching everyone of his games twice, I wasn't wowed by it. I thought he had an overrated arm by some and underrated accuracy. I agree with the scout below. Good arm, not great. I'd put Jayden close to that same class velocity wise, a half of a peg behind but he might have caught up to him this off season or even surpassed him. Jayden albiet older seems to be growing more into that man from a boy frame than Drake. And Jayden talked about (Kliff, too) his arm strength improving this off season. That throw to Luke on Sunday went like 50 yards and he didn't even step into the throw -- very impressive.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10117005-nfl-scout-grades-drake-mayes-arm-strength-710-and-below-josh-allen-justin-herbert

Ahead of next week's 2024 NFL draft, an anonymous NFL scout gave their thoughts on how North Carolina's Drake Maye stacks up to some of the current top quarterbacks in the league.
According to ESPN's Jeremy Fowler, an AFC scout graded Maye's arm strength as a 7 out of 10, noting that it is "good but not that good," and not on par with Josh Allen of the Buffalo Bills or Justin Herbert of the Los Angeles Chargers, who are considered two of the strongest-armed quarterbacks in the NFL.

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That's his name! I wasn't going to look it up. Thank you.

I another negative might be he ONLY has a fast ball. Like, he was throwing heat to guys who were 10 feet away from him. One of those balls is going to bounce off a guy's chest and end up as an INT.

In the very limited sample I watched (I think he had like 4-6 passes in that game), he actually was pretty accurate. I'm not suggesting that would be a trend, but just what I saw in that small sample size.

The one thing, and Favre benefited from this a lot, with having a cannon for an arm, it allows you to be a little late on a read, and then still make the throw. Favre was often late on the read, but could muscle the ball into the receiver and it worked out. Also, you don't have to lead the receiver as much because the ball gets there faster. And if you learn to use the velocity, it can help in accuracy. But it takes time.

I make no grand proclamations about Milton. He won't get the opportunity to start in Dallas. Dak is good. But damn, his arm strength is impressive.

Voice_of_Reason said:

This conversation is probably for another thread. My biggest question on Daniels was if he could hit intermediary throws in the middle of the field, mostly because he was never asked to do it in college. And I don't think his arm talent is as good as Maye's. Not that it's THAT much worse, but Maye has an A arm, and I think Daniels is an A-. And I was worried if he couldn't hit the tight window throws in the middle of the field, that was going to really be a problem. And it wasn't that I thought he COULDN'T do it, he just never had to do it, so it was an open question.

And now he does it all the time, so that box is checked.

FWIW, that backup kid on Dallas has an A+ arm. Damn. He played a few snaps in whatever blowout loss, and the ball was jumping out of his hand like peak Favre/Elway/Rodgers. It just looked different. That doesn't mean he's a good QB or is going to be a good QB. You need more than an arm for that. But man oh man, that's some special arm talent. I still think peak Elway had the best arm in the history of the NFL, at least the parts I've been able to watch. Favre, Rodgers, Marino are the others who had close to the same velocity. Some said Jeff George had that type of arm, and I disagree. It was good, but not that level.

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I don't see Maye as having a superior arm when the releases are evaluated. Jayden has one of the quickest releases in the league, I'm pretty convinced his passes to to their target sooner than Maye even with the different arm strengths are factored in, which is minimal. And I'm no Maye hater, I originally preferred him and expect him to be really good. But he has a ceiling that's lower than our guy. He may be comparable to Herbert one day while Jayden's comp is Lamar.

RIP Brandon Coleman.

You were a starting LT with upside, possibly our LT of the future. Then you were moved to guard where everyone had assumed you would be an immediate upgrade over a below average LG. Now after playing extremely poorly you are not even on the active roster, coach's decision. We should be talking about this more

Next we have Conerly who gave up 4 pressures on Sunday. I know it's early for both but this has to be of concern, we thought we were building a good young OL with these 2.

Maye reminds me of…



Though to be fair, Ron Howard turned out good.

Darrell Green Fan said:

RIP Brandon Coleman.

You were a starting LT with upside, possibly our LT of the future. Then you were moved to guard where everyone had assumed you would be an immediate upgrade over a below average LG. Now after playing extremely poorly you are not even on the active roster, coach's decision.

We should be talking about this more.

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We should be talking more about Chris Paul. He showed out in the NFCCG vs Jalen Carter and that was overlooked by most.

Chris said:

We should be talking more about Chris Paul. He showed out in the NFCCG vs Jalen Carter and that was overlooked by most.

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Not me. I've always been a Paul fan, his size like Kinlaw just stands out. I think his performance against Carter was excellent and we discussed this but nobody gave him much of a chance to be anything but a backup.

But let's not forget what the plans for Coleman have been and what they may be now. It could be an interesting discussion as to just what is going on. Are they upset that he didn't return to practice after a minor injury? Or was it just his play which has been really bad?

From Sunday's game

I get talking about Coleman. It is crazy that he can't even make the active roster How is that possible?

Many of us had higher expectations of Paul over the past two years but he couldn't prove himself good enough to gain play time.

If we are discussing OL, how about our Centers grades...they are not very good

for the whole season

Going by the numbers above, which might not be entirely accurate but give you a ballpark idea, Martin, Connerly, Ertz, and Lattimore are all among the bottom 25% in the league.

Ertz is already old and Sinnott seems to be doing better. Why isn't he replacing Ertz already? If Cosmi is back and Connerly is really that bad then Wylie can be moved to RT. Martin and Lattimore have to get better as the season goes on. I just wonder if Lattimore can make it through a whole season without being put on IR. Dude always gets banged up.

Nice praise of Chris Paul and the guys up front.

Gooseneck said:

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Thank you Gooseneck !!!

Great great breakdown of JCM's game & guys I truly think we found a great one here.