Howling for Howell

@DCGoldPants said:
Imagine an OL that isn't just blocking for Sam, but pushing the defense backwards where fewer hands up will bat down passes.

If anything, Sam has shown that he could be your planned QB1 next year for a new coach/gm that uses their assets to build that OL through the draft and FA.
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This is the one scenario where not having that top three picks doesn't hurt as much. If we really don't need a QB (and Howell is making a good case for himself) then the top linemen usually start rolling off the board around 4-10. So, we can still get our top pick or close to it if Rivera stumbles into his usual 6-11 type of season. The luxury of having such an awful o line is we could even take a guard with a middle first rounder and feel good about it.

The big question on the line is how much do Paul and Larson change our view on the line? If for the rest of the year, our line plays okay then the emergency drops. Leno is old. Is Cosmi a keeper at guard? Can Stromberg become the number one center. We're probably on the hook capwise with Gates for at least a season. Larson is solid, but seems like a better short term solution than long time fix. Like Gates, Wilie probably has to be kept for at least another year or two because of the cap, but at least he has shown he is capable of being part of a Super Bowl winning line.
 
burgold said:
This is the one scenario where not having that top three picks doesn't hurt as much. If we really don't need a QB (and Howell is making a good case for himself) then the top linemen usually start rolling off the board around 4-10. So, we can still get our top pick or close to it if Rivera stumbles into his usual 6-11 type of season. The luxury of having such an awful o line is we could even take a guard with a middle first rounder and feel good about it.

The big question on the line is how much do Paul and Larson change our view on the line? If for the rest of the year, our line plays okay then the emergency drops. Leno is old. Is Cosmi a keeper at guard? Can Stromberg become the number one center. We're probably on the hook capwise with Gates for at least a season. Larson is solid, but seems like a better short term solution than long time fix. Like Gates, Wilie probably has to be kept for at least another year or two because of the cap, but at least he has shown he is capable of being part of a Super Bowl winning line.
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Larson and Paul don't change my mind because we need a LT and if we're picking in the Top 10-15. I think there are few right now mocked there. I know its crazy to say "draft x right now when the draft is 5 months away" because things happen in FA or someone really steps up. But ideally in the 1st 3 rounds I'd be going OL, LB, OL, LB. Yeah, we need a TE, probably another DB. But OL is is #1 and LB is #2 and if we have 4 picks before day 3. That's what I go for unless the position group there is so thin.
 
@DCGoldPants said:
Larson and Paul don't change my mind because we need a LT and if we're picking in the Top 10-15. I think there are few right now mocked there. I know its crazy to say "draft x right now when the draft is 5 months away" because things happen in FA or someone really steps up. But ideally in the 1st 3 rounds I'd be going OL, LB, OL, LB. Yeah, we need a TE, probably another DB. But OL is is #1 and LB is #2 and if we have 4 picks before day 3. That's what I go for unless the position group there is so thin.
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I think I would argue that we need a RT more. While Leno is no longer a world-beater, he has been much more consistent than Wylie, who has literally been one of the worst RTs in the league for much of the season.

My only concern about Leno is his age and how much more he has in the tank.
 
Neophyte said:
I think I would argue that we need a RT more. While Leno is no longer a world-beater, he has been much more consistent than Wylie, who has literally been one of the worst RTs in the league for much of the season.

My only concern about Leno is his age and how much more he has in the tank.
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If Wylie didn't have that contract, I might agree. But this year Leno has been beat way too many times and we need that blindside protected.
 
I think we take what we have and admit that the replacement of Gates and Charles on the OL in 2023 gives Howell the chance to survive and play out the season without getting beaten to a pulp.

That's not an endorsement of this line for 2024, but at the same time it MAY result in the emergence of Chris Paul as a potential starter on the OL at 23 going forward.

One thing we DO KNOW is that most of the players on the OL who are near or over 30 including Leno, Larsen, Wylie and disappointing Sam Cosmi are probably not in the team's plans.

But we won't know what a new staff does and its fruitless to discuss that in depth until we see who the new decision-makers are.

Can Washington move Andrew Wylie inside to guard? Again, does Paul nail down a job at guard? Does Cosmi rebound or is he just a bust as a #2 pick?

Can't tell right now. too early.

One guess on my part is the team ultimately admits the signing of Gates was a mistake and we eat his guarantees to cut him next offseason.

From what I have seen I don't think he is even a top backup off the bench to keep. He's a practice squad caliber player.
 
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Bulldog said:
But we won't know what a new staff does and its fruitless to discuss that in depth until we see who the new decision-makers are.
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It's still fun to play GM.
 
Yep, and the signing of Wylie, Gates, Barton and the drafting of Forbes says to me that a monkey eating a banana could have done just as good of a job as this front office did in the offseason :devilish:
 
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Like pornography, I can’t define what good to great offensive line play is, but I know it when I see it.

Larsen certainly seems to have been a good stopgap move but is not a long-term solution. Cosmi is average, Paul hasn’t been noticeably better than Charles and is less athletic, Leno is passable but nowhere near what should be desired, and Wylie is a money-weighted anchor around the lines and the teams neck. Stromberg? Hell, I have no idea, though his size gives me some pause. If Gates never sees the field again it won’t break my heart, and I was a fan of his signing.

Significant changes to that group should be the #1 priority for the incoming leadership.
 
Five picks in the first three rounds. An opportunity to attack OL needs we cannot afford to pass up.
 
I keep seeing Wylie's contract mentioned and I'm not sure why. Yeah, the initial number looked big but that is just a number. As with all NFL contracts, the devil is in the details.

It was a 3-year $24 million deal with $12 mill guaranteed. However, it has an out after 2024 if the team wants and with the team's available cap space next year, cutting him before that shouldn't be a huge issue.

Dead Cap if cut in the '24 offseason - $7.83 million
Dead Cap if designated post-June 1, 2024 cut - $5.16 in '24 and $2.66 in '25 ($4.25 million in 24 cap savings)

As opposed to Leno who carries higher numbers than Wylie in every contract category and his contract is up after the '24 season.
 
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Although 90 some million in cap space sounds like a lot, I don’t think it goes as far as people think.

Hopefully we have or bring on a modern day cap guru or that ownership is willing to open their wallet, which seems to be the ultimate advantage in salary management.
 
Hopefully all these feel-good articles don't act as a jinx.
 
Name a Day 3 QB who has been successful since Brady.

Go ahead. I'll wait.
 
Neophyte said:
Name a Day 3 QB who has been successful since Brady. Gardner Minshew was a sixth rounder. Pretty decent career though not a franchise guy.

Go ahead. I'll wait.
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What do you consider successful? Gardner Minshew was a 6th rounder. Pretty good career so far considering. Not a franchise guy, but a passable starter.
 
Neophyte said:
Name a Day 3 QB who has been successful since Brady.

Go ahead. I'll wait.
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since? I can't think of one. I also think Brady was technically taken on day 2 when the draft was only on the weekend. But let's just say late rounds. And, we're saying successful is being a long time starter. You're probably right. If you want to go like 4th and 5th round and later. You have Dak, Kirk, Fitzmagic who all went 4th or later.
 
Neophyte said:
Name a Day 3 QB who has been successful since Brady.

Go ahead. I'll wait.
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Brock Purdy, even if he hasn’t played as well the last few games. He still came off the bench and played very much like Brady early in his career leading his team deep into the playoffs before getting hurt.
 
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