Howling for Howell

[Chris]

Not right now, obviously, but this thread can live on through the off-season and into camp and beyond.

Sam Howell is the only qb currently on the roster that has both the arm and the athleticism to potentially succeed at this level, even if he only eats chicken. I personally look forward to him getting a serious opportunity to show his skils.

 

[DieselPwr44]

Good thread but I disagree with you .

The time for Howell is now. And before anyone loses their mind on that statement,in the words of Boone: why not? what do we have to lose?

This same staff signed Heinicke off his sister's couch and put him immediately into a playoff game!

Riverboat Ron wants to live up to his name,put Howell in.

 

[Chris]

Whether Rivera should can be argued. Whether he will cannot. That just ain’t gonna happen.

 

[Boone]

I agree on both fronts. It’s time to see what we have in him. And there’s zero chance Rivera has the balls to make a bold move.

 

[Neophyte]

This team is 5-1-1 with Taylor under Center.

 

[MikefromOH]

Taylor has lost one freaking game and this site is screaming for a rookie who's never played a single snap in the NFL.

But, then again, it is also talking about how letting good players go doesn't matter. Such is the fanbase.

 

[Chris]

Screaming?

 

[MikefromOH]

Where's Rock?

Same thing...

 

[Boone]

This team is 5-1-1 with Taylor under Center.

I think all that demonstrates is that we'd be 5-1-1 had we had just about any QB under center. Completing 61.8% of his passes, 9 TDs and 5 INTs. He's been sacked 14 times. 6.8 yds per pass. 9 TDs is just unacceptable for any starting QB. We can try to explain it away by blaming the playcalling, point to the fact we are a rush first team, etc.. but you can't throw a TD a game and sustain winning. You know whose stats look a lot like Heinicke's in 2022?

Russell Wilson. And he's been sacked 37 times.

I love who Heinicke is - but who he is as a starting QB isn't enough. He consistently misses on just enough plays to put the outcome in serious doubt. Yes we are 5-1-1. But he's contributed only very marginally to the effort. Likeable and plucky and tough are nice attributes. I prefer talent and ability though.

Short of injury, they won't replace him. But he's a below average starter and that's why I wouldn't be afraid to make a change. We won't, because one of Rivera's flaws is that he actually cares what fans think of him and he knows it would be an unpopular move. I don't think we make the playoffs if they stick with Heinicke.

 

[Bulldog]

You don't throw a rookie into a playoff race heading into Game 14 of the NFL season. Not unless the starter is performing the way Matt Ryan did last night against Dallas (4 interceptions and a horrible performance) or gets injured and the other backup is Colt McCoy.

It seems clear the coaches have shortened the leash for Taylor to use his mobility and be a dual threat for the team the way he was when he first came up and surprised the Bucs in the playoffs.

So, they have made him into a boring game manager which limits turnovers but doesn't really play to his strengths.

Anyone remember the Cowboys at first trying to make Tony Romo into a pocket quarterback?

Running and throwing on the run was a significant part of his game and what ultimately made him a viable productive starting qb in the league.

I don't think Taylor will be the starting quarterback in 2023. But he is the guy for now, just as Todd Collins was in 2007 or Alex Smith was in 2020.

We don't get to the playoffs in 2007 or 2020 without these quarterbacks. During those particular seasons the clubs responded to their presence and played harder for them and that is exactly what we see in 2022 with Heinicke.

Howell will come back and have a chance to compete in 2023 but the only way a rookie #5 pick gets the nod is if the veterans are all hurt (See SF here) or if the team is 3-8 and clearly out of contention for anything but a top 5 pick.

Yesterday Heinicke threw for 270 yards and 2 tds with no picks.

In looking at the comparison stats under center, he outplayed Daniel Jones.

But Daniel Jones' coaches were smart enough to use his legs to boost the running game and his 12 carries for 71 yards helped keep the Giants in this game.

If Turner had done the same thing, especially with Robinson Jr. having a productive afternoon, I think Washington may have been able to score more points and win this game.

Also, if Joey Slye had made all of his kicks we would have won in regulation.

 

[Neophyte]

I think all that demonstrates is that we'd be 5-1-1 had we had just about any QB under center. Completing 61.8% of his passes, 9 TDs and 5 INTs. He's been sacked 14 times. 6.8 yds per pass. 9 TDs is just unacceptable for any starting QB. We can try to explain it away by blaming the playcalling, point to the fact we are a rush first team, etc.. but you can't throw a TD a game and sustain winning. You know whose stats look a lot like Heinicke's in 2022?

Russell Wilson. And he's been sacked 37 times.

I love who Heinicke is - but who he is as a starting QB isn't enough. He consistently misses on just enough plays to put the outcome in serious doubt. Yes we are 5-1-1. But he's contributed only very marginally to the effort. Likeable and plucky and tough are nice attributes. I prefer talent and ability though.

Short of injury, they won't replace him. But he's a below average starter and that's why I wouldn't be afraid to make a change. We won't, because one of Rivera's flaws is that he actually cares what fans think of him and he knows it would be an unpopular move. I don't think we make the playoffs if they stick with Heinicke.

I understand the frustration but I'm with Bulldog here.

Is Heinicke all that and a bag of chips? No, he isn't. But he does give us the best chance to win right now.

I didn't see the game yesterday because...well...FOX - however, I'm aware he missed some open guys and those plays likely would have won the game.

News flash, every single guy who started at QB in the league yesterday (and some who didn't) missed open guys yesterday. My guess is that nearly every team left points on the field too.

Rather than see Howell play, I would kind of like to see Turner use Taylor to do those things that electrified the fanbase to start with. Let him be a bit more like himself.

 

[Boone]

It's not 1980 Bulldog. Teams not putting rookies in the game? Almost every 1st round QB in the last decade has played in their rookie seasons - many starting from day one. I 100% agree that it will not happen. Heinicke was slightly better yesterday than he has been. But still made a number of 'what was that?' throws and missed on many makeable plays that a more talented QB completes. He did not outplay Daniel Jones (who completed 80% of his throws yesterday) by any stretch.

 

[Boone]

Is Heinicke all that and a bag of chips? No, he isn't. But he does give us the best chance to win right now.

That's an opinion. Completely possible it is wrong and that we'd see an immediate difference with Howell in there.

 

[Om]

The only way I can see Ron playing Howell this year is if/when we're out of playoff contention (or TH4 gets hurt of course). Given every indication we've had, he'd totally lose the locker room benching Taylor ... unless Taylor suddenly falls apart completely. Might be different if we'd been hearing whispers the last couple weeks about Howell lighting it up in practice. But anything I've heard has been the opposite--that he's "not ready." If anyone's heard different I'd love to know.

I suspect the rest of the way we'll see what we've seen from TH4 since day one ... he'll lead the offense up and down the field between the 20's, then we'll struggle in the red zone when teams stack the run and force passes into tight windows, the offense will score 17-20 points per game, and we'll rely on the D to close teams out on the last possession.

 

[Chris]

At this point Rivera would be crazy to start Howell but he needs a serious opportunity to showcase his abilities with the first unit during OTAs, training camp, and the preseason.

Heinicke is not a long-term answer and the Wentz experiment was an expensive mistake. Maybe Howell isn’t the answer either but that is not known yet. If Howell had stayed at UNC for his senior season he would likely be a top 3 prospect in the upcoming draft, not a 5th rounder.

I just don’t think this team is ever going to win because of Heinicke or Wentz, a better QB is necessary going forward. At this point you dance with who brung you but you don’t have to marry them.

 

[Boone]

I have to wonder if, like the 'Heinicke makes everyone else play better' stuff, if the 'lose the lockerroom' idea isn't overstating it a bit. I think the players love Heinicke's personality - who doesn't? And we all love an underdog overachiever. But they also want to win. WRs know when they are open, and their QB can't deliver the ball. I don't know how they feel about Howell, his talent level, or if they've even had enough reps with him to have formed an opinion on his ability and ceiling. Rivera's gonna say Rivera things and as previously mentioned, there is zero chance Howell sees the field. If Heinicke goes down, Rivera will go back to Wentz.

My primary argument in this thread is that it is QUITE possible that Howell is the best QB on this roster and when he finally gets a chance as starter, it will be immediately apparent.

 

[Boone]

And brace yourself - it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Wentz returns as starter coming out of the bye.

 

[Chris]

And brace yourself - it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Wentz returns as starter coming out of the bye.

That wouldn’t surprise me even a little bit. He has to be chomping at the bit to prove that his acquisition wasn’t a mistake.

 

[Neophyte]

And brace yourself - it's not beyond the realm of possibility that Wentz returns as starter coming out of the bye.

I'm of two minds about this.

First - as long as we maintain the run orientation of this offense I think it might be okay for a bit.

Second - I don't expect Turner to maintain the run orientation of this offense when he has a QB with an arm again.

 

[Boone]

I'll go further. I think if Turner were able to go back to Wentz and not revert back to a pass happy playset - we could see the best version of Wentz we've seen yet. But as you said, that's a huge 'if' especially because we have no way of knowing whether we've become run heavy because it leverages our best talent or if Turner has shifted the offense in that direction because of Taylor's limited abilities as a passer.

Can I take what's behind curtain #3?

At some level, I feel like we're screwed because neither QB offers much chance of overcoming their base faults. And that's why it's unlikely we're doing anything dramatic in 2022.