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Kirk Cousins Development Tracker
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TomE
The Pro Bowler
Not as dramatic and no where near the stage but I did think a little bit of Doug's crazy comeback after being down 10-0 to Elway.
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Nothing will ever top a 5 touchdown 2nd quarter in a Super Bowl. Not ever.
fansince62
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it ranks right up there at the top....but I'll tell ya...that stop of Walt Garrison by Kenny Houston was simply a play in a game that will remain with me for the ages...given the context of where Redskin football had been so long and who we were playing that game. the Diesel's run is obviously another competing pinnacle moment.
I know...not a comeback. just some perspective on greatness.
Oh. Well. If we are going to go down this happy tangent I feel obligated to bring up Brunell to Moss.
Twice.
In the last four minutes.
In Dallas.
During their Homecoming Game.
On Monday Night.
Greatness,IMO, is grinding out your arch rival in a game for the right to go to the Super Bowl.
Not only are you going to the Super Bowl but at the same time, exorcising so many demons in one fell swoop.
It's also greatness to look across the line at your opponent and tell them what you are going to do and know there's not a damn thing they can do about it.
Not only are you going to the Super Bowl but at the same time, exorcising so many demons in one fell swoop.
It's also greatness to look across the line at your opponent and tell them what you are going to do and know there's not a damn thing they can do about it.
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This^^^^ Pure Awesomeness!!!!!!!!
I was at that Superbowl... had my pocket picked, had no money to get to the airport via bus but some happy Redskin fans helped me out.. but all was good.. WE WON and then there's RIGGO....
I think this was the first time I really suffered from the lows/highs of being a football fan.
In the UK our access to games back then was really bad. No internet or gamepass access in those days.
An example of how bad it was here...
Channel 4 had the rights to the seasons games, but they only showed 1 or 2 games a week, so every week you'd tune in and PRAY that it was your team. Each team would get featured once or twice but if you weren't the main feature game then you knew that you only had the 30 second recap during the scoring run down at the end of the program. That was your Redskin fix for the week.
Other than that the only way to keep up with the news for your team was to buy a specialist newspaper out here called 'First-Down'. I've attached a couple of screenies (only ones I can find!), but can you guys imagine how sporadic our Redskins news was! LOL
So the only time you were GUARANTEED your team got on TV was the Superbowl.
Superbowl XXII was the first Redskins Superbowl I watched with some knowledge. I had got into the sport off the back of watching Superbowl XVIII but at that point I had no real clue what I was watching and didn't have an investment in the team yet. 4 years later I did.
I was 15 and that first quarter killed me inside. Watching Denver take a 10 pt lead was gutting, and I really thought we were done.
Then the Redskins had that 2nd Qtr and boom! I was bouncing in my seat with an excitement I still get to this day when the Skins have a good game. I was like that on Sunday night. It's the best feeling.
Smoot Point
The 1st Round Pick
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In terms of recent games, I'll take Robert's 1st half against the Dallas Cowboys on Thanksgiving day (3 TDs, pressure of national broadcast, in Dallas against the 6-4 Cowboys)... In that game, Robert threw deep balls like nothing Kirk Cousins has been able to throw in his career. It's true that his pass to Garcon was behind him & Garcon made an amazing play, but the 68-yd TD to Aldrick Robinson was a thing of beauty... His TD to Moss just before halftime was the type of accuracy that we all wish Kirk Cousins had displayed against the Jets.
Nobody will ever convince me that following up a very crappy half against a crappy team should be lauded. Cousins can basically be given credit for winning 5 games in his career, none of those teams had a winning record when we played them (or even as of today). Kirk Cousins basically played a game similar to Mark Brunnel's 22 consecutive short completions game against Jacksonville. Let's not paint this as some "epic" performance... I mean, Robert had a span of 5 games at the end of 2012 where he had a quarterback rating over 100... This is the type of fan reaction you get when your team has been feeding you crap and you finally get a costco sample of hummus and it tastes like the best thing ever...
Nobody will ever convince me that following up a very crappy half against a crappy team should be lauded. Cousins can basically be given credit for winning 5 games in his career, none of those teams had a winning record when we played them (or even as of today). Kirk Cousins basically played a game similar to Mark Brunnel's 22 consecutive short completions game against Jacksonville. Let's not paint this as some "epic" performance... I mean, Robert had a span of 5 games at the end of 2012 where he had a quarterback rating over 100... This is the type of fan reaction you get when your team has been feeding you crap and you finally get a costco sample of hummus and it tastes like the best thing ever...
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I could just as easily argue that you're cherry picking facts in your assessment. Half the OL starters and #1 WR out, playing against the #3 passing defense in the league, zero running game - down by 24 in a must win game. Some of us are viewing it as an epic comeback because it was an epic comeback. Cousins had to be damn near perfect to pull it off (as did our D) and that's exactly what we got.
Why do fans have to denigrate Griffin or Cousins? Why can't we acknowledge both have had great performances and horrible ones? And why is it a problem to celebrate an improbable come from behind win?
I agree that there is no comparison between Griffin's downfield throwing ability and Cousins. And there's also no comparison between Cousins efficiency in running this offense and Griffins to date.
Bottom line - this is the Kirk Cousins Development Tracker thread. I'd say Sunday's game was one small step in and sign of a QB's development. It's the 2nd time this year Cousins has lead a game winning drive - and he almost did it a third time.
If folks want to minimize those things and focus only on the negatives (yeah, there are some as there are with every QB) that's a choice but don't tell me it's the whole 'truth'. It's not.
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Why do fans have to denigrate Griffin or Cousins? Why can't we acknowledge both have had great performances and horrible ones? And why is it a problem to celebrate an improbable come from behind win?
I agree that there is no comparison between Griffin's downfield throwing ability and Cousins. And there's also no comparison between Cousins efficiency in running this offense and Griffins to date.
Bottom line - this is the Kirk Cousins Development Tracker thread. I'd say Sunday's game was one small step in and sign of a QB's development. It's the 2nd time this year Cousins has lead a game winning drive - and he almost did it a third time.
If folks want to minimize those things and focus only on the negatives (yeah, there are some as there are with every QB) that's a choice but don't tell me it's the whole 'truth'. It's not.
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Ahhhhh that Dallas game was a happy memory. RGIII was great that day. That whole span of consecutive wins in 2012 was one of the most exciting times I can remember as a fan. Loved it.
As for this last game... I think you can only play the hand you're given and the opponent that's infront of you.
Now if we were a Superbowl contender, or even a playoff calibre team I'd agree with you Smoot. What we did should not be lauded. Indeed this comeback would be a actually have been a very lucky escape from a really bad first half game.
But we're not that at all. Not even close.
To use an analogy, me and the wife have just started going to the gym in an effort to lose weight and get fit. I'm just getting into running again after years away from it. As such I'm not comparing myself to Usain Bolt. I'm comparing myself to my peers. People at my level both in weight and fitness and if I beat them then I laud that small victory because I achieved something. As I get better I'll use a more appropriate measure.
That's where this team is. On paper the Buccs and the Skins are in very very similar positions. Both are a mess, both were sporting 2-4 records coming in. Both had QB's sporting some issues behind centre. As peers go this was a pretty even matchup. Even the Vegas bookies said so. What were we 3.5pt faves or something? And we were at home!
Yes the Buccs aren't going to the Superbowl anytime soon. Neither are we.
And yes they played an atrocious second half. We played an atrocious first one.
But honestly I don't think any of us are under the illusion that the Skins are great this year. Far from it, we're all very much aware of the issues that this team faces.
And as such the criteria for this game and it's ultimate result, in my opinion, is very different. The Buccs were very much a peer team. (The same cannot be said for example of the Patriots in a couple of weeks time. We're not even close to their level. If they beat us then no shame. If we keep it at least respectable I think we can be really happy. If we beat them I'll rightly laud them for that game too!)
It's a fact that we have huge swathes of injuries across the team. Honestly if there was such a thing as the Injury/Inactive/Bench Bowl, we could field a team that would stand a good chance of winning.
Also a fact that this was a 'backs against the wall' gam, with all the pressure that came with it. In that respect I think the Skins were alot worse off than the Buccs. The Buccs are breaking in a rookie QB etc and as such the expectation I think is low. This was year 2 for Gruden, in a season where we'd looked competent all year, coming off the back of a couple of hard losses, injuries galore, in a division that looks kinda winnable and we needed to avenge last years embarrassment. Plus it was at home infront of the Redskins alumni... This was a loaded game for us. As Gruden said, if they'd have lost this week he may have been fired during the bye. And certainly if Cousins stunk it up there was a good chance he was heading to the bench.
(I'm wondering actually if the team just came out really tight in the first half due to the above. I wonder if desperation int he second half actually made them play kinda looser...)
Anyhooooo.... put into that context I think what they pulled off on Sunday was nothing short of miraculous in some respects and it deserves to be a game that is remembered.
That first half felt devastating. I haven't felt as gutted as that since the Seattle game where we lost RGIII. When Kerrigan went out and Goldson went out I thought we were done. Not just for the game but for the season. Just done. I mean I never thought we were going to the playoffs, but just as a competitive team in the second half of the season I thought we were done. I was bracing at that point to be on the other end of a 10 game losing streak to end 2015/16.
But to turn it around in the second half with the players we had on the field. I mean some of those guys were signed off the street. Or were hand me downs from the rejected pile of other teams. Or off the practice squad. Some of those guys may never play a pro game again after this season or when all our starters return. They had no real business pulling off the biggest comeback in Redskin history. And with the fans booing and the pressure of losing badly at home and all the shitstorm that was going to come their way if they lost.
I'm a realist. As much as I know we're still a middling team at best and we have years before we're (hopefully) a regular playoff attendee, I'm happy with Sunday's result and I'll happily have a drink to those guys. They never gave up and embodied the very spirit of HTTR.
RGIII was great that day. That whole span of consecutive wins in 2012 was one of the most exciting times I can remember as a fan. Loved it.As for this last game... I think you can only play the hand you're given and the opponent that's infront of you.
Now if we were a Superbowl contender, or even a playoff calibre team I'd agree with you Smoot. What we did should not be lauded. Indeed this comeback would be a actually have been a very lucky escape from a really bad first half game.
But we're not that at all. Not even close.
To use an analogy, me and the wife have just started going to the gym in an effort to lose weight and get fit. I'm just getting into running again after years away from it. As such I'm not comparing myself to Usain Bolt. I'm comparing myself to my peers. People at my level both in weight and fitness and if I beat them then I laud that small victory because I achieved something. As I get better I'll use a more appropriate measure.
That's where this team is. On paper the Buccs and the Skins are in very very similar positions. Both are a mess, both were sporting 2-4 records coming in. Both had QB's sporting some issues behind centre. As peers go this was a pretty even matchup. Even the Vegas bookies said so. What were we 3.5pt faves or something? And we were at home!
Yes the Buccs aren't going to the Superbowl anytime soon. Neither are we.
And yes they played an atrocious second half. We played an atrocious first one.
But honestly I don't think any of us are under the illusion that the Skins are great this year. Far from it, we're all very much aware of the issues that this team faces.
And as such the criteria for this game and it's ultimate result, in my opinion, is very different. The Buccs were very much a peer team. (The same cannot be said for example of the Patriots in a couple of weeks time. We're not even close to their level. If they beat us then no shame. If we keep it at least respectable I think we can be really happy. If we beat them I'll rightly laud them for that game too!)
It's a fact that we have huge swathes of injuries across the team. Honestly if there was such a thing as the Injury/Inactive/Bench Bowl, we could field a team that would stand a good chance of winning.
Also a fact that this was a 'backs against the wall' gam, with all the pressure that came with it. In that respect I think the Skins were alot worse off than the Buccs. The Buccs are breaking in a rookie QB etc and as such the expectation I think is low. This was year 2 for Gruden, in a season where we'd looked competent all year, coming off the back of a couple of hard losses, injuries galore, in a division that looks kinda winnable and we needed to avenge last years embarrassment. Plus it was at home infront of the Redskins alumni... This was a loaded game for us. As Gruden said, if they'd have lost this week he may have been fired during the bye. And certainly if Cousins stunk it up there was a good chance he was heading to the bench.
(I'm wondering actually if the team just came out really tight in the first half due to the above. I wonder if desperation int he second half actually made them play kinda looser...)
Anyhooooo.... put into that context I think what they pulled off on Sunday was nothing short of miraculous in some respects and it deserves to be a game that is remembered.
That first half felt devastating. I haven't felt as gutted as that since the Seattle game where we lost RGIII. When Kerrigan went out and Goldson went out I thought we were done. Not just for the game but for the season. Just done. I mean I never thought we were going to the playoffs, but just as a competitive team in the second half of the season I thought we were done. I was bracing at that point to be on the other end of a 10 game losing streak to end 2015/16.
But to turn it around in the second half with the players we had on the field. I mean some of those guys were signed off the street. Or were hand me downs from the rejected pile of other teams. Or off the practice squad. Some of those guys may never play a pro game again after this season or when all our starters return. They had no real business pulling off the biggest comeback in Redskin history. And with the fans booing and the pressure of losing badly at home and all the shitstorm that was going to come their way if they lost.
I'm a realist. As much as I know we're still a middling team at best and we have years before we're (hopefully) a regular playoff attendee, I'm happy with Sunday's result and I'll happily have a drink to those guys. They never gave up and embodied the very spirit of HTTR.
MikeSr619
The Cheerleader
its a select few that keep doing the "Griffin to Cousins" comparisons all the time. No matter what we try to move on from or past it always circles back around.
Its one of the main reasons people like me thought he should be taken off the team. No matter what happens high or low, if hes on the roster he is going to be brought up. The mediots cant even help themselves but show him every single game multiple times just to try and stir up drama.
Its old. Everyone should know that Griffin isn't a bad guy. He had an amazing year for us which we should not discount or forget. It was magical and that dude did things you will never see happen behind center again for us. But he also is never going to start again for this team. We are halfway through the season and its obvious that Gruden is sticking with Cousins like it or not. We haven't even gone to McCoy and Griffin isn't even active.
its time to stop using these 2 as bullets against each other and as ways to just piss everyone off.
Its one of the main reasons people like me thought he should be taken off the team. No matter what happens high or low, if hes on the roster he is going to be brought up. The mediots cant even help themselves but show him every single game multiple times just to try and stir up drama.
Its old. Everyone should know that Griffin isn't a bad guy. He had an amazing year for us which we should not discount or forget. It was magical and that dude did things you will never see happen behind center again for us. But he also is never going to start again for this team. We are halfway through the season and its obvious that Gruden is sticking with Cousins like it or not. We haven't even gone to McCoy and Griffin isn't even active.
its time to stop using these 2 as bullets against each other and as ways to just piss everyone off.
Smoot Point
The 1st Round Pick
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The whole truth is that he has played a significant part in 5 wins against losing teams... He hasn't defeated anyone good. If he defeats Brady, it's a miracle and I've got nothing negative to say no matter how he plays. Maybe if he defeats the Saints in a shootout, that would be something. Panthers in Carolina? That would be impressive... How about the Giants? A team he has never beaten? A division foe? That would be a step in the right direction. Cowboys on national TV with Romo & Dez back? That's something only the other 2 QBs on the roster have done. I guess what I'm saying is... the next 5 games are really going to decide it for me concerning Kirk Cousins... Right now, I'm thinking we go 0-5 (maybe 1-4, beating the Saints). So it would be impressive to me if he's able to do better than my expectations in those next 5 games. He already exceeded my expectations by winning 3 of the first 7 games, but the whole team exceeded my expectations as much as anything Kirk Cousins did in those games.
I could see the point in celebrating Kirk Cousins' performance had he come onto the field in the 2nd half after one of the other quarterbacks was pulled... This wasn't him coming into a game against a poor team that another QB had spotted 24 points. He was very much a part of us spotting those 24 points. It would be like saying the defense played perfectly because they held the Bucs to 6 points in the 2nd half. Really, the only one who was perfect in the game was probably Dustin Hopkins. We don't win the game if our kicker is Kai Forbath (missed an extra point this week).
Anyway, barely beating the Bucs doesn't blow me away. Mentioning Doug Williams and talking about past great QB performances in the same thread is crazy talk. Anyway, I know folks weren't really doing that, but just seeing it mentioned above kind of set me off.
I could see the point in celebrating Kirk Cousins' performance had he come onto the field in the 2nd half after one of the other quarterbacks was pulled... This wasn't him coming into a game against a poor team that another QB had spotted 24 points. He was very much a part of us spotting those 24 points. It would be like saying the defense played perfectly because they held the Bucs to 6 points in the 2nd half. Really, the only one who was perfect in the game was probably Dustin Hopkins. We don't win the game if our kicker is Kai Forbath (missed an extra point this week).
Anyway, barely beating the Bucs doesn't blow me away. Mentioning Doug Williams and talking about past great QB performances in the same thread is crazy talk. Anyway, I know folks weren't really doing that, but just seeing it mentioned above kind of set me off.
Smoot Point
The 1st Round Pick
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The reason it matters is because at the end of this season we're going to have to pay one of them at least $16M next year or commit to a long term deal... or let both of them go.
MikeSr619
The Cheerleader
You quoted a piece of what I said to state that we aren't going to play Griffin again because of the salary?
Why do we have to keep either one of them or pay them to a long term deal? Kraperneck just got a VERY nicely structured deal and could be released this season with minimal hit. It happens.
Or am I missing what you are saying here?
Griffin is gone...there is no way he comes back or signs with us even if we do offer him a deal. There is no reason to beat on a horse that is not only dead but has moved on to the glue factory.
TomE
The Pro Bowler
Boswell
We won this one game, that's it. Kirk was responsible just as much, if not more, as any other attributable factor.
If this particular game leads to something better down the road, great. It may also just be a continuation of miserable teams groveling amongst themselves to compete.
As far as bringing in Doug's name and the emotional roller coaster of that first half of the Super Bowl.
No one, especially me, was making any comparison other than that same emotional roller coaster experienced within the moment and circumstances of this game.
In that SuperBowl, it was made perfectly clear that no team had overcome a 10 point deficit and gone on to win the game. Boom that changed in a hurry.
In this past game no Redskins team had ever overcome a 24 point deficit and won the game, a stretch Boom.
I think others caught on to what I was saying and followed with other moments in Skins history.
Comparisons to greatness was not even in the mix, we're not stupid.
This is who we are, bottom feeders amongst the league.
We won this one game, that's it. Kirk was responsible just as much, if not more, as any other attributable factor.
If this particular game leads to something better down the road, great. It may also just be a continuation of miserable teams groveling amongst themselves to compete.
As far as bringing in Doug's name and the emotional roller coaster of that first half of the Super Bowl.
No one, especially me, was making any comparison other than that same emotional roller coaster experienced within the moment and circumstances of this game.
In that SuperBowl, it was made perfectly clear that no team had overcome a 10 point deficit and gone on to win the game. Boom that changed in a hurry.
In this past game no Redskins team had ever overcome a 24 point deficit and won the game, a stretch Boom.
I think others caught on to what I was saying and followed with other moments in Skins history.
Comparisons to greatness was not even in the mix, we're not stupid.
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I'm not sure Cousins is on the hook at all for 2016. Isn't he an unrestricted FA?
I think we took RGIII's option so he's a UFA in 2017, but I think we skipped Kirks so he's a UFA next year.
That means I think (and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong!) that he'll go to the open market and will see how much he's worth. If a team want's to pay for him they can. If not we can snap him up at a much lower cost than $16. Depends how much we want to spend and how high we go.
I don't think there's any team that would pay him $16M. I think we could get him back at a fraction of that unless another team bids us up and we're stupid and sign him at a high cost.
I think we took RGIII's option so he's a UFA in 2017, but I think we skipped Kirks so he's a UFA next year.
That means I think (and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong!) that he'll go to the open market and will see how much he's worth. If a team want's to pay for him they can. If not we can snap him up at a much lower cost than $16. Depends how much we want to spend and how high we go.
I don't think there's any team that would pay him $16M. I think we could get him back at a fraction of that unless another team bids us up and we're stupid and sign him at a high cost.
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