Beck vs. Grossman

[McD5]

Homer McFanboy (Brian Murphy) said that we should get the QB who will be our starter for the next 15 to 18 years. In other words, give up four first round picks to move up and take Andrew Luck.

Some may think that is crazy, but I would support such a move if we are too far removed from the first pick.

ESPN speculated this morning that it would take two things:

1. A team that is willing to trade him.

2. Three first rounders, and two second rounders.

I obviously have no say in the matter, but that seems pretty expensive. Maybe we can just stay where we are at, and still get the second or third best qb in the draft.

 

[Elephant]

I can only recall one...maybe two...deep balls Rex has thrown. he has thrown almost entirely short to mid-range stuff. neither guy has created any kind of deep threat that opposing defenses have to worry about.

to be honest...and I know this will go over like a lead balloon....I favor any strategy that increases the odds of our landing a quality QB in the off-season. john beck and rex grossman are both second rate QBs.

I didn't say he was completing them, but he was throwing some deep balls plenty early on. Sometimes I was scratching my head wondering what they were thinking by making the call in the 1st place. I have yet to see Beck throw the ball over 15 yards.

 

[SkinsOrlando]

We have too many holes to trade the farm for Luck, that would set us back 5 years. We'll be in a good position to draft a qb in the first round picking in the top 5.

 

[servumtuum]

I didn't say he was completing them, but he was throwing some deep balls plenty early on. Sometimes I was scratching my head wondering what they were thinking by making the call in the 1st place. I have yet to see Beck throw the ball over 15 yards.

El, according to ESPN player stats this season Beck has attempted 5 passes of over 20 yards, completed two and had one intercepted with a longest total pass play yardage of 32 yards.

Link:http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/10484/john-beck

 

[Fear The Spear]

Beck vs. Grossman? Hey, I'm all for it. Let them go 15 rounds and whoever wins will be the starter. Or go with the loser.

My choice?

Activate Crompton and let him get a shot.

I wouldn't yell if we switched back. Hell, I'd take Compton... Cromptom... Campton... whatever his friggin name is

And so goes the cycle over and over again, proving we've learned nothing from the Grossman/Beck debacle, and others. The belief that whatever QB on the roster or even the PS is better than anyone we've had, no matter how bad his resume is. Unlike Beck, Crompton was not even a good QB in college, so I don't know what makes people think he would make a good pro. And he was 4th best on a Tampa team of average QB's. I'd much rather bring back Clemens.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

if we traded 3 first rounders for any player short of Tom Brady or AP (and even them Id be pissed) I would have to find another team to cheer for or stop watching football. thats a move that a deep team with everything BUT a qb does, not a team as talent deficient as us.

 

[Yusuf06]

I can only recall one...maybe two...deep balls Rex has thrown. he has thrown almost entirely short to mid-range stuff. neither guy has created any kind of deep threat that opposing defenses have to worry about.

to be honest...and I know this will go over like a lead balloon....I favor any strategy that increases the odds of our landing a quality QB in the off-season. john beck and rex grossman are both second rate QBs.

+1

In the grand scheme of things Sexy Rexy is good for perhaps two additional wins in the remaining games. All that will do is put us further away from our rookie QB of the future. Yeah it sucks but that's the hand we were dealt so we've got no choice but to play it.

 

[Elephant]

El, according to ESPN player stats this season Beck has attempted 5 passes of over 20 yards, completed two and had one intercepted with a longest total pass play yardage of 32 yards.

Link:http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/10484/john-beck

Were they completions over 20 yards after the catch? I did not watch last week's game so I cannot say, but I have yet to see Beck actually throw it over 20 yards in the air that I can recall, today there was not one that went over 15 yards in the air.

 

[Miles Monroe]

What actually scares me the most is if Beck was so high on Mike and Kyle's draft boards back when he came out, their judgment on drafting a franchise QB could be questionable.

 

[fansince62]

I didn't say he was completing them, but he was throwing some deep balls plenty early on. Sometimes I was scratching my head wondering what they were thinking by making the call in the 1st place. I have yet to see Beck throw the ball over 15 yards.

hey El! I know what you mean...and I simply can't recall...completed or not....any more passes than I can count with the fingers on one hand. and those he did attempt had the same result as Beck (who has thrown some deep passes): overthrows by a wide margin. I'm less inclined to blame either guy since this is more the product of poor pass blocking (someone analyzed the data from the Buffalo game and found that Beck enjoyed..on average...2.7 secs of pass protection - simply unacceptable for almost any passing scehme, but definitely for any deep game). second...and less in my element.....the receivers are either not getting open deep (though I believe Sonny states he has seen Armstrong open deep more than once), dropping passes or breaking off routes (i.e., out of synch with the QBs).

My take:

- Beck simply doesn't process information well enough and apparently doesn't see the field well. Not a talent with a strong upside.

- Rex Grossman has physical limitations he cannot/has not overcome that shine through in every game, is prone to errors, is completely immobile (not a good thing with weak pass blockng). after 6 years....not a talent a team should build around.

Again...an nupopular theme.....but I'd just assume we develop the young players and...errrr....adopt the Indy approach to landing either Griffin or Jones or the USC QB. We have gone on long enough w/o a franchise QB. These guys don't come free. We're gonna have to suck it up, make the investment and develop more creative strategies for rebuilding other weak points/overall talent level.

 

[Henry]

Homer McFanboy (Brian Murphy) said that we should get the QB who will be our starter for the next 15 to 18 years. In other words, give up four first round picks to move up and take Andrew Luck.

Some may think that is crazy, but I would support such a move if we are too far removed from the first pick.

Yeah. He posted that on ES and I told him that was nuts. A pure panic move.

We should know by now one player won't fix all our ills. We should also know that we can 'fake' our way through multiple drafts with trades and FAs.

Four firsts for anyone is absolutely insane. Period.

And that's if we KNEW Luck would pan out.

 

[riggins44]

After Eagles game when Moss and others say Rex deserves to keep his job...was this him being a good trooper or sending a message the locker room feels he gives them the best chance to win?

I say put Rex back in or play Compton or find someone on the street. The lack of production from QB is hurting this team. You can try to blame offensive injuries all you want. Thing is there comes a time to man up and play. Other teams have similar problems, yet their QB's are producing.

Even Teebow led this team to a victory!

 

[Henry]

Re: Beck vs. Grossman ...

Grossman's problem is that he's wildly inconsistent. He can look like a franchise QB one day and throw four picks the next. When he's on, the Redskins can move the ball and score once in awhile. When he's off we lose. We will never win a damn thing with him starting for a full season.

Beck's problem is that he is consistent. He's consistently terrible. He has bad pocket presence, has trouble going through his progressions, tends to stare down his receivers and has a weak arm. He's more mobile than Grossman, but he doesn't know when to buy time with his legs, when to throw the ball away, and when to tuck the ball and run with it. We not only won't win anything with him under center, I doubt we'll win a game.

Having watched each for a few games, given the choice of the two I'd take Grossman. However, in the Grand Scheme of things I don't think it matters. The team isn't winning anything this year either way.

If I were the coach, I'd play Grossman now because with him there will at least be stretches where our young receivers will get some quality reps. Right now I doubt they are learning much watching Beck dump the ball off to Helu 14 times a game.

 

[GSF]

Re: Beck vs. Grossman ...

Grossman's problem is that he's wildly inconsistent. He can look like a franchise QB one day and throw four picks the next. When he's on, the Redskins can move the ball and score once in awhile. When he's off we lose. We will never win a damn thing with him starting for a full season.

Beck's problem is that he is consistent. He's consistently terrible. He has bad pocket presence, has trouble going through his progressions, tends to stare down his receivers and has a weak arm. He's more mobile than Grossman, but he doesn't know when to buy time with his legs, when to throw the ball away, and when to tuck the ball and run with it. We not only won't win anything with him under center, I doubt we'll win a game.

Having watched each for a few games, given the choice of the two I'd take Grossman. However, in the Grand Scheme of things I don't think it matters. The team isn't winning anything this year either way.

If I were the coach, I'd play Grossman now because with him there will at least be stretches where our young receivers will get some quality reps. Right now I doubt they are learning much watching Beck dump the ball off to Helu 14 times a game.

Bingo! Rex has some terrible games, but he also has some good ones. Beck won't throw it further than 15 yards. The offense has completely compressed with Beck at QB. Just painful to watch for everyone, especially the rest of the players on the team. Put Rex back in please!

 

[Cycleans]

I share your views as well Henry. I keep hoping that Beck will emerge to at the very least a competent player. Its pretty hard to evaluate how some of the young guys are developing when the qb can't even manage a game.
It sounds as though Shanny will stick with Beck for the time being... I'm ok with that. We know Grossman isn't the answer...evidently Beck is as bad or worse. The only real downside to switching qbs again is the disruption with no apparent reason other than making a change.
Beck has how many starts total? less than 1/2 of a season is my guess. He could improve to the point where he sucks less than Grossman. regardless I believe we will be drafting a new qb next season.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Re: Beck vs. Grossman ...

Grossman's problem is that he's wildly inconsistent. He can look like a franchise QB one day and throw four picks the next. When he's on, the Redskins can move the ball and score once in awhile. When he's off we lose. We will never win a damn thing with him starting for a full season.

Beck's problem is that he is consistent. He's consistently terrible. He has bad pocket presence, has trouble going through his progressions, tends to stare down his receivers and has a weak arm. He's more mobile than Grossman, but he doesn't know when to buy time with his legs, when to throw the ball away, and when to tuck the ball and run with it. We not only won't win anything with him under center, I doubt we'll win a game.

Having watched each for a few games, given the choice of the two I'd take Grossman. However, in the Grand Scheme of things I don't think it matters. The team isn't winning anything this year either way.

If I were the coach, I'd play Grossman now because with him there will at least be stretches where our young receivers will get some quality reps. Right now I doubt they are learning much watching Beck dump the ball off to Helu 14 times a game.

This about sums it up, not much else to say.

 

[Neophyte]

While I can't argue that Beck is better than Rex, I need to point out that Rex had 5 starters that Beck hasn't had (Hightower, Moss, Cooley, Williams and Lichtenstieger). The line has been in a constant state of flux since he came in and frankly, I can't see how Rex could have been better but he easily could have been worse.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I mean, does it matter who he is playing with, when he only sees a quarter of the field? He could have had Jerry Rice & Art Monk starting at WR yesterday, and still thrown into triple-coverage all day. He just doesn't see the field, or understand the offense apparently.

 

[fansince62]

Bingo! Rex has some terrible games, but he also has some good ones. Beck won't throw it further than 15 yards. The offense has completely compressed with Beck at QB. Just painful to watch for everyone, especially the rest of the players on the team. Put Rex back in please!

me thinks you exaggerate! the reality is that...like Beck...Rex's only good games were during pre-season. he managed a somewhat credible effort against a wounded Gints team. otherwise.....the offense's performace was just as anemic under Rex as with Beck. At this point...i don't much care which of these incredible mediocrities are under center. I do think some are giving rex more credit than he is due. the offense didn't do squat under his leadsership either. the only difference then...was the litanany of "it's o-line/receivers" fault excuses we had to endure whilke Butterball had his belly under center.

 

[fansince62]

I mean, does it matter who he is playing with, when he only sees a quarter of the field? He could have had Jerry Rice & Art Monk starting at WR yesterday, and still thrown into triple-coverage all day. He just doesn't see the field, or understand the offense apparently.

and that's the point! neither does Butterball! refernce all the interceptions. I won't belabor you with his physical limitations argument. you get basically the same thing with Butterball. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. the differences lie in the sources of the performance problems. Rex will do no better with an anemic running game and 2.7 secs average to get a pass off.