Beck vs. Grossman

Well, I was exaggerating, but not that much when you look at those numbers posted by Serv. beck has only completed 2 passes longer than 20 yards lol. It's the shrinky dink offense with Beck in there. I'll take the chubby gunslinger...


GSF...bubba.....Rex hasn't been any more effective in the deep passing game. that was my point. there is no threat from either guy.

I don't care if Butterball starts. in fact...it'll give me more ammunition to rage about!!!! :)

I'm already looking forward to the off-season - the traditional mid-season mindset for Skins fans!
 
You're just wrong Al. Grossman has thrown awful turnovers. But he's also scored points and kept the ball moving with the passing game - in fact, quite effectively at times.

Ultimately - we don't have an NFL quarterback. But Beck is an absolute zero. 'Deep passing game' is relative. Compared to Beck, Grossman is ****ing Johnny Unitas. I want Beck to play - because I hope we lose every game the rest of the way. He'll ensure that.
 
I want Beck to play - because I hope we lose every game the rest of the way. He'll ensure that.


IMO, that's why he's starting. 3-4 wins or 5-6wins, what's the difference? Grossman MIGHT get us to 6 wins and the 10-13 draft pick

3-13 and top 3 pick is the way to go. and who knows, there is still a small 5% chance that Beck actually starts getting better and could be our backup or start the first few games until the rookie is more prepared to play.
 
You're just wrong Al. Grossman has thrown awful turnovers. But he's also scored points and kept the ball moving with the passing game - in fact, quite effectively at times.

Ultimately - we don't have an NFL quarterback. But Beck is an absolute zero. 'Deep passing game' is relative. Compared to Beck, Grossman is ****ing Johnny Unitas. I want Beck to play - because I hope we lose every game the rest of the way. He'll ensure that.


Pre-Script: not at war with you on this Boone! in the end, we both hold almost identical views on what needs to be done. I simply see no difference in outcomes between the two. We happen to differ on more granular attributes - you believe Rex makes more precise passes with greater regularity than Beck. I can see where you are coming from. I see Rex's physical limitations, mistakes, etc., and those assume a greater weight for me.

I'm not wrong. Our early victories were due mostly to defense...not Rex Grossman.


1) I'll be charitable and give him the Gints game.

2) Cards game: Butterball was picked in the first quarter on a potential scoring drive. second quarter scoring drive (1 yard pass to Davis) was based mostly on running and the same short passing limitations we are seeing from Beck. 3rd QTR Wells runs all over us and the offense under Rex does nothing. Butterball led a scoring drive in the 4th qtr, failed two point conversion, Gano kicks a field goal. Major accomplishment against the 2-6 Cardinals. sickly offense.

3) Cowboys: need I review that embarrassment? Lot of dynamic scoring drives there by ole Butterball. no TDs.

4) Rams: 1 touchdown drive. yup...another dynamic, powerhouse performance led by Butterball. the putrid Rams were in position to possibly win that game in the 4th qtr after Butterball was picked. Torain was the difference maker...not Butterball.

5) Eagles: shall we review his 4 picks?

In my book....Butterball has logged one good game - the first one. you are hanging your hat on phantom beliefs. Beck has been a non-entity. I didn't think it possible...but the offense has been worse under him. my point is that the offense was basically horrendous under Butterball as well. so what if he completed more passes? THEY WEREN'T SCORING ANY MORE. we had no deep passing game. he was and is a turnover machine. for every "on the money" pass you see...I see a pass behind the receiver and way off the mark the few times we have gone deep. Butterball sucks. Beck is like driving a car with two wheels....Butterball with three wheels. neither should be in the NFL.

here's my major departure from you: I see us losing the same games regardless of whether Beck or Butterball are under center. no one seems to be phased by the fact that a 6 year vet tosses 4 picks in one game! one can expect Beck to be bad having only started 7 games in his whole career. But Butterball? HE SUCKS!!!!!

so....choosing between Beck or Rex is simply making a decision on which foot to shoot. All I know is that this team better go all in on landing a franchise QB during the off-season. it would be nice if we could also land a capable FA QB to groom the new kid. get rid of rex and beck.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
FS, Rex is bad, Beck is worse. Period. Go back to what you typed. Rex at least scored multiple times in a game occassionally. Beck? Two TDs in three games. Blech.

Personally I am fascinated to see how this will play out. Does the coaching staff go for the win? If so, Rex is the clear starter. Are they going for higher draft position? Then go with Beck. Are they trying to get a QB back there who can help the development of the WR kids? Probably Rex then. Who they play over the next month will tell us a lot about their intentions.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device
 
FS, Rex is bad, Beck is worse. Period. Go back to what you typed. Rex at least scored multiple times in a game occassionally. Beck? Two TDs in three games. Blech.

Personally I am fascinated to see how this will play out. Does the coaching staff go for the win? If so, Rex is the clear starter. Are they going for higher draft position? Then go with Beck. Are they trying to get a QB back there who can help the development of the WR kids? Probably Rex then. Who they play over the next month will tell us a lot about their intentions.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device


Goal...I did think about it and overall the difference isn't great enough to warrant much excitement. the team wasn't scoring under Rex any more than it is now with Beck. Rex was spiraling downward from what was..after all...a pretty mediocre baseline. Neither QB established a downfield game. Neither QB managed to drive the team to much in the way of scoring. My conclusion is that the outcomes are gonna pretty much be the same no matter who is under center. Rex's weaknesses are pretty easy for a capable DC to exploit. Beck looks lost out there.

In the event.......2012 Draft...Here We Come!
 
Here is the thing...Rex has enough time under center for us to know who and what he is now and will always be. I don't think there is much question about that.

Beck has 8 NFL starts. EIGHT people.

Do I think Beck will turn it around, get better and become a serviceable NFL QB? I doubt it but I'm not sure. Do I think Rex will turn it around and stop throwing picks? Not a chance.

Play Beck the rest of the way and let the chips fall where they may.
 
Here is the thing...Rex has enough time under center for us to know who and what he is now and will always be. I don't think there is much question about that.

Beck has 8 NFL starts. EIGHT people.

Do I think Beck will turn it around, get better and become a serviceable NFL QB? I doubt it but I'm not sure. Do I think Rex will turn it around and stop throwing picks? Not a chance.

Play Beck the rest of the way and let the chips fall where they may.

they both suck, the question is are we going to do everything we can to stay mediocre at a 5 win season or do we say screw it, bite the bullet for short term pain for hopefully long term gain? I say bite the bullet, draft a young qb, but dont throw him to the woplves, build a damn oline before we david carr him lol
 
they both suck,

Today, yes.

I said this in the chatroom on Sunday and Boone told me it was a stretch but you realize that we are saying about Beck today was being said about Fitzpatrick in Buffalo two years go, right? Shoot, even as late as the middle of last season he wasn't all that and a bag of chips and the Bills were reported to be interested in Cam Newton if Carolina hadn't taken him.

No, this isn't evidence that Beck will pull through. It is just one example of a guy who bounced from team to team, finally getting "it" to click for him and while I think it a long shot, color me less than surprised if he starts pulling it together over the rest of the year. He looked better this week then he did last where he was finding the open outlet guy instead of taking the sack.
 
Fitzpatrick showed signs of life in his first season in St. Louis (he played against us, in a game both Portis & Cartright racked up 100 yards). He was also a UDFA, not taken in the 2nd round like Beck.
 
Be that as it may, Lanky, this is the first year of Fitz's career he has gotten over 59.4 in completion percentage (Beck currently has a 60.6%), the first year he has had more TDs than Sacks and only on the second year he has had more TDs than INTs.

Draft position means little now and you can't fault the player for some scout's opinion. Besides, on some level, I can see it. Fitz went to Harvard and played Ivy League ball while Beck went to BYU and played Div 1A ball. Hard to compare that.

Simply put, before this year, I would not have given you anymore for Fitz than I would have for Beck.

So, what's the difference? Number of snaps maybe? Just flat playing experience? Maybe so, maybe no but no one will know for sure unless Beck gets more games.
 
You make interesting points, Neo. My problem is hearing the announcers, and seeing it for myself, note the open receivers downfield that he either isn't seeing or doesn't trust himself to make that throw. Not a good thing either way, really.
 
So, what's the difference? Number of snaps maybe? Just flat playing experience? Maybe so, maybe no but no one will know for sure unless Beck gets more games.

You make interesting points, Neo. My problem is hearing the announcers, and seeing it for myself, note the open receivers downfield that he either isn't seeing or doesn't trust himself to make that throw. Not a good thing either way, really.

Its funny you mention this, because I just read an article about predicting a QB's success in the NFL, and the #1 most important stat is the number of starts they make in college. Its not always accurate (exceptions to every rule, of course) but it usually is. I will try and dig up the article.

Maybe the number of NFL starts is important? Look at Alex Smith - he's been junk most of his career until this season, and now he's playing rather well. Was it the coach, or has he just finally "gotten it" after all the experience? Maybe the right thing to do IS to stick with Beck for the next several years...I sure hope not, but maybe it is.
 
Here is the thing...Rex has enough time under center for us to know who and what he is now and will always be. I don't think there is much question about that.

Beck has 8 NFL starts. EIGHT people.

Do I think Beck will turn it around, get better and become a serviceable NFL QB? I doubt it but I'm not sure. Do I think Rex will turn it around and stop throwing picks? Not a chance.

Play Beck the rest of the way and let the chips fall where they may.

pretty much my attitude Neo. were there a bigger delta between Beck and Rex I might lean to reinstating Rex. but I just don't see that big a gap.
 
Be that as it may, Lanky, this is the first year of Fitz's career he has gotten over 59.4 in completion percentage (Beck currently has a 60.6%), the first year he has had more TDs than Sacks and only on the second year he has had more TDs than INTs.

Draft position means little now and you can't fault the player for some scout's opinion. Besides, on some level, I can see it. Fitz went to Harvard and played Ivy League ball while Beck went to BYU and played Div 1A ball. Hard to compare that.

Simply put, before this year, I would not have given you anymore for Fitz than I would have for Beck.

So, what's the difference? Number of snaps maybe? Just flat playing experience? Maybe so, maybe no but no one will know for sure unless Beck gets more games.


what was Fitz's record last season? :) just sayin.
 
Its funny you mention this, because I just read an article about predicting a QB's success in the NFL, and the #1 most important stat is the number of starts they make in college. Its not always accurate (exceptions to every rule, of course) but it usually is. I will try and dig up the article.

Maybe the number of NFL starts is important? Look at Alex Smith - he's been junk most of his career until this season, and now he's playing rather well. Was it the coach, or has he just finally "gotten it" after all the experience? Maybe the right thing to do IS to stick with Beck for the next several years...I sure hope not, but maybe it is.


Lanky...since you study this stuff more than I do...I was under the impression that a major problem/liability for today's college QBs was the growing number who played out of a spread offense...never under center. true...Newton has done well. anywho......doesn't that skew the significance of the number of games started stat?
 
what was Fitz's record last season? :) just sayin.

He started 13 games and was 4-9 in those 13 but he did start out 0-6 before beating Detroit and Cincy in weeks 11 and 12. Then he lost to Pitt and Minn before winning against Cleveland and Miami.

So it isn't like he was beating top teams last year and it took it a while of week to week work for things to click. Of course, to be fair, he had flashes of brilliance during that 0-6 run where his defense really let him down so he likely should have had a win sooner.

And he had 24 starts with St Louis, Cincy and Buffalo before the beginning of last year.
 
Last edited:
Let's take a different approach

First, how many full games has Beck had? 2.
Even Rex had the final 3 games last season as a review; so Beck gets one more chance in my book.

Watching the 49rs game was pure frustration. Not due to the pathetic offensive play of the Redskins, but becasue Fox was spending more time showing Jim Harbaugh walking or standing on the sideline more than they were the friggin game!!! Have you ever seen worse network of the NFL?

What I also saw was an offense that did not look like it knew what it was doing. I watched the 49rs offense, they were focused in the huddle, the QB read out the plays clearly and with good command, the players all clapped their hands in unison and everyone knew what they were doing. The Redskins by comparison looked ragged, somewhat focused, some were breakign the huddle before Beck even got the whole play called, there was no cadence, no rythum, no pace. The 49rs were crisp, focused, and in unison.

I put that squarely on Beck. Rex had good huddle control; the players focused, listened, knew the plays and their assignments. Beck does not know the offense. They are pure vanilla because he either can't grasp the system or can't execute it. I saw the same plays over and over and over and over again. The Bills were calling out what was going to happen towards the end of the game. Young Shanahan has once again had to dumb up the offense for Beck the way he did for McNabb. We all know where that went. It was only when Rex was in that Shanahan was able to open up the system. Now he can't, and that is why the offense has gone nowhere.

However, it is not all gloom and doom. I saw improvement in Beck from game 1 to game 2 (seriously, how could he do any worse?). However, I also saw more of the playbook. Therefore, for me, the game against Miami will be the proof in the pudding.

If I see a more diverse offensive game plan, and Beck exectuing better, then I believe he should stay in the rest of the season. Rex will not get any better than he has. We know what his full potential is and it is not enough. Shanahan thinks Beck's upside is just beginning to come out. If it does not come out against Miami, the team that used him like toilet paper; if he can't motivate himself to totally mutilate them, then I say bench his butt and let Rex develop the young receivers while the young linemen get playing time and experience.
 
First is John Beck this season:

p71VaKRd19M_6QzwF5vQ6JhZQsHf85fC5FX-1FmF1ucjo86n4_QwmXDS4pdVimSm7BFk5xEmxX4Aux4m1TYFT5Kcc2chZpGTJW3vFKoPfEuEOhNdLss


Next is Rex Grossman this season:

Nl4iTxBPckEWEnkVrQs_Lbmyj83a96o_wG1wITiLuxakmaorBXvgxtHDva4WlCuy4EWWCxc8EgIcmoSJj_omCEidTKmblPQ5f-e_VcaXPv1T7mr67K8


Link to all ESPN player passing splits for John Beck this season:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/10484/john-beck

Link to all ESPN player passing splits for Rex Grossman this season:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/4480/rex-grossman

GSF...bubba.....Rex hasn't been any more effective in the deep passing game. that was my point. there is no threat from either guy.

I don't care if Butterball starts. in fact...it'll give me more ammunition to rage about!!!! :)

I'm already looking forward to the off-season - the traditional mid-season mindset for Skins fans!

i realize this is kind of a pointless arguement, but you're wrong and the numbers show it. Rex completed 5 throws of 30+ with a long of 45 and 6 tds. Beck's longest pass is 32 yards with only 1 td. Rex also made plays at the end of last season. Rex will has thown a ton of picks true, but he has made some big plays through the air. Beck has had his share of ugly turnovers as well, but hasn't really made any plays.

I think your disdain for Rex' girthy midsection has clouded you vision of what's actually happening on the field.
 
i realize this is kind of a pointless arguement, but you're wrong and the numbers show it. Rex completed 5 throws of 30+ with a long of 45 and 6 tds. Beck's longest pass is 32 yards with only 1 td. Rex also made plays at the end of last season. Rex will has thown a ton of picks true, but he has made some big plays through the air. Beck has had his share of ugly turnovers as well, but hasn't really made any plays.

I think your disdain for Rex' girthy midsection has clouded you vision of what's actually happening on the field.

Actually, Rex only has 2 30+ yard throws & 5 20+ yard throws, and only completed 5 out of 17 (.294) throws of 21 yards or longer.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Help Users

You haven't joined any rooms.

    You haven't joined any rooms.
    Top