The All Things Offensive Line Thread

[Koala]

We have had "post Hogs syndrome" for 30 years IMO

Thats not a bad thing tho, its part of our identity as a fan base, and AP/DQ need to understand that.

Maybe Tomlin would be a better coach for understanding things like fan base identity. O line is as important to us as LB's are to the steelers. Its who we are, we want to able to run the ball, and not through some gadget crap either.

AP was a little slow in understanding/picking up this fact, but he seems to have figured it out, thats part of why he let KK go was he wanted a more traditional run offense. He's probably still taken aback by our obssession with the line, thats why he had that somewhat odd tweet/statement telling the fans to calm the F down. And I agree we are being a little bit chicken little, but at same time this is part of who we are.

 

[RedWolf]

Thats not a bad thing tho, its part of our identity as a fan base, and AP/DQ need to understand that.

Maybe Tomlin would be a better coach for understanding things like fan base identity. O line is as important to us as LB's are to the steelers. Its who we are, we want to able to run the ball, and not through some gadget crap either.

AP was a little slow in understanding/picking up this fact, but he seems to have figured it out, thats part of why he let KK go was he wanted a more traditional run offense. He's probably still taken aback by our obssession with the line, thats why he had that somewhat odd tweet/statement telling the fans to calm the F down. And I agree we are being a little bit chicken little, but at same time this is part of who we are.

IDK?

 

[NickyJ]

But again, I ask what could AP have really done about that? Its just unfortunate. And Chris Paul solidied his role as the best LG for this team last year, he was very solid in that role and Coleman actually couldnt beat him out there. Coleman was the depth guy, not Paul. And now we are using the depth guy.
Again the Tunsil was catastrophic, and would put most teams offensive lines in to the scrap heap. Hopefully we can cobble together a mediocre offensive line until Tunil comes back, and JD's talents can make up the difference like they did in 2024. We have a better defense hopefully, but yes it appear like JD and McLaurin are gonna have to carry the offense. Again, I cant fault AP for it cause he did the right moves to turn this into a good offenslive line unit, preseason peoplle that that the oline was the strength of the team.

But its best player got injured. You have to acknowledge that major fact!

Paul apparently did not solidify his role as the best LG. The team let him walk in free agency as soon as the season was over. They took him back after the entire league, including Washington, decided he wasn't worth enough to actively pursue.

Coleman lost his LG job to Paul and failed to unseat him for the rest of the season. They decided Coleman still didn't progress enough as an LG to prevent shifting him back to OT when Tunsill went down.

The team had 2 centers: One who started the entire season, and one who they believe can start. They cut their starting center, and the one they believe in sat out nearly all of training camp and all of the preseason. We have seen what a center like Nick Martin can do to an offense in 2022, and unfortunately Gulbin and Good-Jones have not looked any better. If Allegretti gets injured again, which looks likely considering how long he has been out so far this season, those backups are going to play, and it will be ugly without a massive step up by them.

Tunsill getting injured is unfortunate but has been adequately dealt with. The backup LG who the team couldn't care less about struggling all through preseason was foreseeable considering they couldn't care less about whether another team took him in free agency. The extreme risk of center being a debilitating weakness was a foreseeable weakness that AP created by cutting his own starting center and not adequately replacing him.

 

[method man]

Thats not the kind of intelligence thats required. Its more athletic/bodily intelligence. Hiking the ball smoothly, especially in a shotgun-heavy offense, is a skill. Now, calling out the protections is important too, and its the centers job cause he's the one that hikes the ball. That takes some intelligence I suppose but nothing that cant be taught. Thats not the issue for Chis Paul.

The bigger issue with slidng Chris Paul from LG to C, is the gaping hole you now have at LG. Which is by all means, a more important position than C. C is the least important position on the offensive line. Dont worry, we will be able to sign one of the scrap heap in the next coming days, hopefully.

If Paul can play center, if Allegretti were to go down, I’d rather have him in there than Gulbin. You can stick Wylie in at LG in that situation.

 

[method man]

Seth McLaughlin was waived by the Lions. He is a former Rimington trophy winner who also played for Saban and was a UDFA because he tore his Achilles as a senior.

Was on the Bengals PS last year and was in camp with the Lions.

Don’t fuck this up AP, you grinning buffoon

 

[KDawg]

Communication is great. Being a bunch of great guys is... great. When it comes to the play of the OL - show us. I hope they do.

This is what we want them thinking and doing. Love the mentality.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

This is what we want them thinking and doing. Love the mentality.

Sam has consistently said good things, he has been a guy who cares about the team in my mind. He has also advocated for YEARS for more rushing, going back to Rivera; he said they can rush more and be a better team for it essentially. In many cases public quotes. Finally he gets his wish if reports are accurate.

 

[Commander Wraith]

Paul apparently did not solidify his role as the best LG.

He did because he took over from Coleman/Allegretti and held on to it. Of course that’s different than him being good or the team liking him as a longer term starter.

The team let him walk in free agency as soon as the season was over.

Yeah, but that’s how FA works. Either extensions are worked out before the season ends, guys are allowed to walk because they aren’t a fit or the team has other options, or the player wants to test the market.

They took him back after the entire league, including Washington, decided he wasn't worth enough to actively pursue.

Analysts thought he’d be due a pretty good contract, but they were wrong. Doesn’t mean no one pursued him though, including us. I mean, I wouldn’t say the entire league, including Washington, decided Diggs wasn’t worth enough to actively pursue…
You could be right though.

Coleman lost his LG job to Paul and failed to unseat him for the rest of the season. They decided Coleman still didn't progress enough as an LG to prevent shifting him back to OT when Tunsill went down.

The far more likely explanation is that Coleman was their best option at LT. With that said, your speculation could be correct (I’m presuming you meant this as speculation vs stating it as fact).

The team had 2 centers: One who started the entire season, and one who they believe can start. They cut their starting center, and the one they believe in sat out nearly all of training camp and all of the preseason. We have seen what a center like Nick Martin can do to an offense in 2022, and unfortunately Gulbin and Good-Jones have not looked any better. If Allegretti gets injured again, which looks likely considering how long he has been out so far this season, those backups are going to play, and it will be ugly without a massive step up by them.

Allegretti started the last 2 games actually. Obviously that’s too small a sample size (IMO) for them to assume he’d be a fine center for us, I’m just clarifying.

Tunsill getting injured is unfortunate but has been adequately dealt with. The backup LG who the team couldn't care less about struggling all through preseason was foreseeable considering they couldn't care less about whether another team took him in free agency. The extreme risk of center being a debilitating weakness was a foreseeable weakness that AP created by cutting his own starting center and not adequately replacing him.

“Couldn’t care less about” is an odd statement considering we re-signed him…

To be clear, I do agree with your overall perspective that circumstances strongly point to Paul not being a quality guard, and that rolling with Allegretti (along with Gulbin as the backup) is a risk at center. Certainly feels to me like the oline is likely to sink (or at least severely weaken) our season.

Personally, I’ve come around a bit on Biadasz getting cut (mainly due to scheme fit and the line call situation), but I totally agree that AP should have added a better player to compete with Allegretti. I’m not optimistic about Allegretti as our starter, but there are at least some things in his favor - he’s been very durable to this point in his career, he was apparently assisting Biadasz with line calls, he got a little trial run at the end of last year (and they got to see him practice earlier in the offseason), and while center is absolutely important, it’s the easiest of the oline positions to insulate.

Overall, I’m hopeful we sign (or trade for) a decent player or 2 to bolster the line - Decker, Glasgow, a camp cut, etc. If not, my next hope is that Allegretti is serviceable and Togiai winds up earning the LG spot ahead of Paul at some point. The latter is a huge ask of an UDFA, but I do love his profile - strong, big, and highly athletic.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Why hasn’t Paul been talked about as someone who could move to center? He is highly intelligent and would have a career in tech if he weren’t playing football

Let him play the one position he can play and not try to ask him to do more. He's a good backup and servicable center.

I really do wonder if Tunsil hadn't gotten hurt, if the backup center plan was actually Coleman. He was taking some snaps there. He's athletic enough to do it, had played a little center previously.

I wonder if the plan was Tunsil, Coleman, Allegretti, Cosmi and Conerly. If Allegretti goes down, you slide Coleman to center and plug in Paul.

But that went poof when Tunsil got hurt, now Coleman is your starting LT, and Paul is already in at LG.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

This is what we want them thinking and doing. Love the mentality.

I particularly liked the "us vs. us." and not "us vs. everybody"

Cosmi is a smart guy and a good quote. And a good leader, by all accounts.

 

[Always Commander Never Captain]

and Togiai winds up earning the LG spot ahead of Paul at some point. The latter is a huge ask of an UDFA, but I do love his profile - strong, big, and highly athletic.

You know. There has been zero talk about the surprise UDFA who made the team. Basically just 2 posts by you on it.

Anyone seen an film analysis or anything else of him? I read an article with quotes from our front office saying he's been good the entire summer.

Is there any buzz Togiai could beat out Paul? Like is the LG still somewhat up for grabs if Paul struggles or is everybody assuming he's got it for another year.

 

[Boone]

I particularly liked the "us vs. us." and not "us vs. everybody"

Cosmi is a smart guy and a good quote. And a good leader, by all accounts.

Why? They don’t play themselves. They play opponents. Theres an underlying problem with the ‘we just need to worry about our own performance’ stuff - and that is that your best may not be anywhere good enough. That just sounds like rah rah stuff to me.

I get ‘what do you expect him to say?’. Nothing Cosmi or anyone else says will allay concerns. Only excellent play will. We’ll see.

I am glad there are a few less negative here - I promise you I am glad for that.

 

[Commander Wraith]

You know. There has been zero talk about the surprise UDFA who made the team. Basically just 2 posts by you on it.

Anyone seen an film analysis or anything else of him? I read an article with quotes from our front office saying he's been good the entire summer.

Is there any buzz Togiai could beat out Paul? Like is the LG still somewhat up for grabs if Paul struggles or is everybody assuming he's got it for another year.

Maybe, and probably rightly, everyone just sees him as a developmental guy that barely made the roster and only because of the questionable quality of our oline.

But yeah, I’ve found it really strange he’s not getting talked about. I haven’t seen any suggestions he could beat out Paul or even is competing with him. I felt kind of foolish bringing him up after really liking his film vs Miami (playing left and right guard) and thinking maybe he could make the team, and now I feel the same thinking perhaps he could beat out Paul (even if I recognize its a long shot).

For reference:

• Size: Stands 6-foot-6 and weighs around 320 to 321 pounds. [1, 2]
• Bench Press: Put up 29 reps on the bench press during his pro day workouts. [1]
• Relative Athletic Score (RAS): Posted an elite 9.54 out of 10 score, reflecting exceptional size, speed, and explosive power for an offensive guard. [1, 2]
• On-Field Power: Described by analysts and teammates as a "mauler" who excels at stonewalling pass rushers and moving defenders in space

Edit: Anyone that cares to can watch the video - (something like) Matt Gulbin’s 45 snaps vs Miami - to key in on Togiai. I’d be curious to hear what others think. I thought he looked pretty good vs Detroit too.

 

[The Rook]

Maybe, and probably rightly, everyone just sees him as a developmental guy that barely made the roster and only because of the questionable quality of our oline.

But yeah, I’ve found it really strange he’s not getting talked about. I haven’t seen any suggestions he could beat out Paul or even is competing with him. I felt kind of foolish bringing him up after really liking his film vs Miami (playing left and right guard) and thinking maybe he could make the team, and now I feel the same thinking perhaps he could beat out Paul (even if I recognize its a long shot).

For reference:

• Size: Stands 6-foot-6 and weighs around 320 to 321 pounds. [1, 2]
• Bench Press: Put up 29 reps on the bench press during his pro day workouts. [1]
• Relative Athletic Score (RAS): Posted an elite 9.54 out of 10 score, reflecting exceptional size, speed, and explosive power for an offensive guard. [1, 2]
• On-Field Power: Described by analysts and teammates as a "mauler" who excels at stonewalling pass rushers and moving defenders in space

Edit: Anyone that cares to can watch the video - (something like) Matt Gulbin’s 45 snaps vs Miami - to key in on Togiai. I’d be curious to hear what others think. I thought he looked pretty good vs Detroit too.

Hey now, don't go making us optimistic.

Seriously, after reviewing that film, I could see some real potential in Tanoa Togiai and I see why they kept him.

Now Sam Hartman - not a clue.


The Rook

 

[Always Commander Never Captain]

Maybe, and probably rightly, everyone just sees him as a developmental guy that barely made the roster and only because of the questionable quality of our oline.

But yeah, I’ve found it really strange he’s not getting talked about. I haven’t seen any suggestions he could beat out Paul or even is competing with him. I felt kind of foolish bringing him up after really liking his film vs Miami (playing left and right guard) and thinking maybe he could make the team, and now I feel the same thinking perhaps he could beat out Paul (even if I recognize its a long shot).

For reference:

• Size: Stands 6-foot-6 and weighs around 320 to 321 pounds. [1, 2]
• Bench Press: Put up 29 reps on the bench press during his pro day workouts. [1]
• Relative Athletic Score (RAS): Posted an elite 9.54 out of 10 score, reflecting exceptional size, speed, and explosive power for an offensive guard. [1, 2]
• On-Field Power: Described by analysts and teammates as a "mauler" who excels at stonewalling pass rushers and moving defenders in space

Edit: Anyone that cares to can watch the video - (something like) Matt Gulbin’s 45 snaps vs Miami - to key in on Togiai. I’d be curious to hear what others think. I thought he looked pretty good vs Detroit too.

Can't find any Ravens footage. I did start watching the Miami footage (haven't finished) and it is better than the Lions footage so far. I watched 2 different cutups of Athan Kaliakmanis and Kaytron Allen vs Lions to try and focus on Togiai (unfortunately not All-22). He seemed ok. You did see power at times in the run game, I saw some second level whiffs, but when he as able to latch on (DL, LB, whoever) it was a good run block. He was getting juked on occasion in the second level, but part of that could be the running back wasn't as far along as Togiai thought and he was too far in front.

It was also difficult to assess (without All-22) what the issue was with Togiai on some combo blocks with the Center. But there were some where it felt like Togiai wasn't as locked onto the guy passed off to him as he could be. He looked better than Gulbin did at Guard, that's for sure. Julian Good-Jones did not make the team, so probably safe to say he did not do a good job passing the DT off to Togiai.

One issue for Togiai is his age, he just turned 25. Which is old for a rookie and explains why he went undrafted. Regardless, he looks like someone who could become better. A bit quicker out of the stance, a bit better handling defenders in space, and he could be an improvement over Chris Paul. The power difference is there, I don't think Paul can do what Togiai does with moving DT's out of a run lane.

 

[NickyJ]

He did because he took over from Coleman/Allegretti and held on to it. Of course that’s different than him being good or the team liking him as a longer term starter.

Yeah, but that’s how FA works. Either extensions are worked out before the season ends, guys are allowed to walk because they aren’t a fit or the team has other options, or the player wants to test the market.

Analysts thought he’d be due a pretty good contract, but they were wrong. Doesn’t mean no one pursued him though, including us. I mean, I wouldn’t say the entire league, including Washington, decided Diggs wasn’t worth enough to actively pursue…
You could be right though.

If the team had been interested in more than one season of Paul at LG, I'd believe in him solidifying his position. Being willing to ditch him so soon speaks to the opposite. Nobody in the NFL valued his contributions to the point of paying him a starter's money after nearly a full season of starting.

Diggs situation was a bit different. Paul was available at the start of free agency, where teams could had all their cap space open and could budget around it appropriately. Diggs had legal problems that made teams unwilling to risk investing in him when he and his problems could have blown up. When those legal problems were mostly resolved, the rest of the NFL had already spent within their budgets. Teams with lots of cap space like Washington were the most able to afford his contract demands. It can be said that that smaller handful of teams did pass over him, and that other teams didn't rush to free up cap space to make room for him, but I'd still consider it a major difference. That and he was undeniably good last season, but with some age concerns.

“Couldn’t care less about” is an odd statement considering we re-signed him…

To be clear, I do agree with your overall perspective that circumstances strongly point to Paul not being a quality guard, and that rolling with Allegretti (along with Gulbin as the backup) is a risk at center. Certainly feels to me like the oline is likely to sink (or at least severely weaken) our season.

Personally, I’ve come around a bit on Biadasz getting cut (mainly due to scheme fit and the line call situation), but I totally agree that AP should have added a better player to compete with Allegretti. I’m not optimistic about Allegretti as our starter, but there are at least some things in his favor - he’s been very durable to this point in his career, he was apparently assisting Biadasz with line calls, he got a little trial run at the end of last year (and they got to see him practice earlier in the offseason), and while center is absolutely important, it’s the easiest of the oline positions to insulate.

Overall, I’m hopeful we sign (or trade for) a decent player or 2 to bolster the line - Decker, Glasgow, a camp cut, etc. If not, my next hope is that Allegretti is serviceable and Togiai winds up earning the LG spot ahead of Paul at some point. The latter is a huge ask of an UDFA, but I do love his profile - strong, big, and highly athletic.

The longer this goes on, the less hopeful I am that they'll address it. It's less time for whoever they choose to be familiar with the offense if he gets pressed into service early. And more time for someone else to pick their candidate if they really have one. It's why I was so impatient to get Diggs. There's not many good options, and it feels like playing with fire to give other teams this much time to make their deals.

 

[RedWolf]

Who is Commanders' undrafted rookie OL Tanoa Togiai?

Keep an eye on this athletic, undrafted rookie offensive lineman.

commanderswire.usatoday.com

Washington Commanders final UDFA spotlight shines on Utah OL Tanoa Togiai

Will offensive line coach Darnell Stapleton find a way to unlock the undrafted free agent guard’s potential?

www.hogshaven.com

TT info, I had to look him up

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Why? They don’t play themselves. They play opponents. Theres an underlying problem with the ‘we just need to worry about our own performance’ stuff - and that is that your best may not be anywhere good enough. That just sounds like rah rah stuff to me.

I get ‘what do you expect him to say?’. Nothing Cosmi or anyone else says will allay concerns. Only excellent play will. We’ll see.

I am glad there are a few less negative here - I promise you I am glad for that.

My comment was just the way he phrased it. I like the idea of them thinking that they have everything they need to be successful in the room. The way I read it, they need to prove it to themselves, not to everybody else.

I just saw the clip here, but I did listen to the whole interview, and he talked about the confidence he has in the group, his teammates, and the fact he thinks they have everything they need, they just have to go do it.

I dunno, I kindof like that better than "we'll show them!" It really doesn't matter, it's all words. If they play well, it will be fine.

I just liked the phrasing.

 

[Conn]

Why? They don’t play themselves. They play opponents. Theres an underlying problem with the ‘we just need to worry about our own performance’ stuff - and that is that your best may not be anywhere good enough. That just sounds like rah rah stuff to me.

I get ‘what do you expect him to say?’. Nothing Cosmi or anyone else says will allay concerns. Only excellent play will. We’ll see.

I am glad there are a few less negative here - I promise you I am glad for that.

Completely agree with this. Thought I was being a real Scrooge in not liking that thought process. Yeah, every locker room has their own vibe, you’re always building the culture, yada yada…but at the end of the day you have to earn the right to consider your building The Standard by which to judge against. Until you surpass the standards set by the rest of the league, your building isn’t good enough when you’re rebuilding. Until it is. But acting like you’re only competing against yourselves…I don’t know, that feels a little soft to me. I know that’s not how they mean it, and in our everyday lives, “control what you can control” is healthy. But I want my professional gladiators to have more of a “I will control YOU” mindset in their building.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Now Sam Hartman - not a clue.

I think I've finally landed on they want 4 QBs on the roster for practice purposes and it's easier to just keep the guy who's here than break in a new one.

I hope (for however much I care) that they don't re-sign him to another futures contract after the season and they can find a new QB4.

MAYBE they think he could be the QB3 if they don't re-sign Mariota. Which, I hope they don't have to re-sign Mariota because they believe in AK. If that does come to fruition, they just saved ~$9m on the cap and in cash. For a 6th round pick, that's tremendous value right there, if he can be the backup. (Mariota signs 1 year deals worth ~$9-10m. Which means that's all cash and all cap for that year.)