Random Commanders Thoughts

[SkinsNumberOne]

He had a really long and varied career. Quality control type stuff for multiple colleges for 5-6 years, then a college Defensive Coordinator, then a college Offensive Coordinator, then NFL defensive backs assistant, then NFL DC, then Jets HC for 1 year, then back to NFL DC, then Pats HC, then back to college for his USC HC stint for almost a decade, THEN his Seahawks HC run, and finally his washed up Oakland retirement lap

Whew. Pretty crazy career actually.

And write a book titled “Win Forever” in the midst or peak of successful Seahawk years.

Gibbs did amazing things as a head coach. I just can’t see him writing a book called “Win Forever” though.

 

[Boone]

If he did it would be about Jesus lol...

 

[skinzplay]

If he did it would be about Jesus lol...

"Winning Your Guts Out"

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Conn moved here to not derail:

Myers is a special advisor to Harris, barely even a real role and definitely an organizational top-down role that has nothing at all to do with coaching or personnel.

No Myers has nothing to do with personnel but the friendship chain (Harris - Myers - Peters) may be what brought Peters here and may make it hard to get rid of Peters if he has issues. That chain is not just acquaintance from what I understand. I think Myers is legitimately tight with both parties.

Myers, by the way, I think is now President of Harris Entertainment or something. He was given a formal title some months back.

 

[Conn]

Conn moved here to not derail:

No Myers has nothing to do with personnel but the friendship chain (Harris - Myers - Peters) may be what brought Peters here and may make it hard to get rid of Peters if he has issues. That chain is not just acquaintance from what I understand. I think Myers is legitimately tight with both parties.

Myers, by the way, I think is now President of Harris Entertainment or something. He was given a formal title some months back.

Definitely possible, but Peters was a highly sought after candidate who had turned down multiple other opportunities, so I don’t feel too bad about it. If he flunks out here, I’ll look forward to the next “Peters”, but he’s pedigreed and he was super coveted around the league, so I won’t feel like the process that landed on him was bad. We’ll see, he’s still got time. I’m one of the more cynical people here in regards to his tenure but I still WANT to like him even beyond just wanting us to be good…he hypothetically has all the qualities and qualifications I want a stud GM to have, I’d really love him to build a legend here. I’m not seeing it yet but it’s not for lack of trying or lack of hope on my end

If we end up shopping for an entirely new regime I’ll definitely have a closer eye on the initial hiring process the second time around.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Definitely possible, but Peters was a highly sought after candidate who had turned down multiple other opportunities, so I don’t feel too bad about it. If he flunks out here, I’ll look forward to the next “Peters”, but he’s pedigreed and he was super coveted around the league, so I won’t feel like the process that landed on him was bad. We’ll see, he’s still got time. I’m one of the more cynical people here in regards to his tenure but I still WANT to like him even beyond just wanting us to be good…he hypothetically has all the qualities and qualifications I want a stud GM to have, I’d really love him to build a legend here. I’m not seeing it yet but it’s not for lack of trying or lack of hope on my end

If we end up shopping for an entirely new regime I’ll definitely have a closer eye on the initial hiring process the second time around.

I agree with everything you said. I only think we would need to just see if AP maybe gets more leash than someone else would due to those relationships. I saw this in the start but due to the reasons you stated, hoped it wouldn’t matter.

Newton, Sainristil+Sinnott v Dejean, few others… right now, there are some rough looks.

Frankly though, at the core of all of this (to me), is Macdonald v Quinn. In my belief if we had gotten Macdonald we would be on a better path because I think AP picks his players in a highly collaborative process.

If AP made that offer to Macdonald with more term or money available? Or, perhaps, there were ways to make this gig look better, to sell Mac on it? I think when the candidate pool went down to Mac and DQ, and when Seattle realized how much they liked Mac, they swung for the fences.

Hard to know where all the blame lies there, but that pivot may have turned two franchises in two different directions ultimately.

I think DQ the person seems like he has leadership qualities but I think Mac seems to have organizational habits, better hiring evaluation, a lot of other aspects covered better. So it’s not like DQ makes us suck but there is a much bigger struggle here with that piece in place. It feels like our margin for error is smaller.

Before anyone says “but 2024” - that is naive. 2024 we had a lot of success on offense that covered huge issues on D. We had some timely D play though (chance) like St Juste tackling Brown on third down at the end of a game. We also had Jayden scrambling for firsts on third down in critical spots.

2025 our HC decided that neither coordinator earned another year for a variety of reasons. I tend to agree but it puts 2024 in a different light and squarely draws our organizational vector.

This vector, while I probably put that on DQ- DQ instead of Mac is the snowball that starts the move.

Some have said it is impressive they dropped the Coordinators, that it was a brave move. Agreed but the above still probably should be admitted as well.

I like what skinsinparadise says on these topics; that we need to look at how AP is learning. I agree and it may be improving on personnel decisions. I hope so but I worry that he is still highly collaborative and we will struggle as our coaches shift, but I also think this year may be tough with the early injuries. If I had to guess right now, the O will rely more on D which should probably concern us. We will see.

 

[DWinzit]

I wanted MacDonald over Johnson or DQ. In fairness, it is hard to blame Mac going to Seattle regardless of the money based on the inherited roster. Rivera left ours in old, slow and in shambles

 

[burgold]

The value of Quinn was supposed to be that he was so well liked that he could assemble a first class crew that no new rookie head coach could compete with. That narrative fell on its head once he had to replace both coordinators in year three without either of them leaving for a promotion (HC gig.)

I'm still of the mind that 2025 was about injuries more than anything else, but Whitt was not good in either year. Klff and our ability to convert fourth downs at will made 2024 magical. Daniels played out of his head as a runner and passer. A lot of journeyman receivers outplayed their historical averages. 2025 was just a year where everything went wrong. Every fumble bounced straight into the other guy's hands, someone took a drink out of a water fountain and sprained his eye. It was just crazy. Regardless, 2026 is a telling year. Is Quinn's team really 2024's overachievers and tight family or last year's bad luck bums.

Same evaluation for AP. Entering 2027, the excuse of Rivera's roster is gone. He's had enough time and he churned off almost all the Rivera players. This team has his stamp. Three drafts and three free agency periods is enough to forge a team. Peters did go back to the drawing board, restocking almost the entire defense and wide receiving corp this offseason. Let's hope we've done enough that consistency is the best path forward.

 

[burgold]

I wanted MacDonald over Johnson or DQ. In fairness, it is hard to blame Mac going to Seattle regardless of the money based on the inherited roster. Rivera left ours in old, slow and in shambles

The one thing I didn't want was a retread coach and because of that Quinn was last on my list. In 2024, he did show that a retread can still have the hunger to prove themselves. This year is the telling year. In some ways, I think Quinn is swinging for the fences by not only switching out both coordinators but choosing two radically different schemes.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

He had a really long and varied career. Quality control type stuff for multiple colleges for 5-6 years, then a college Defensive Coordinator, then a college Offensive Coordinator, then NFL defensive backs assistant, then NFL DC, then Jets HC for 1 year, then back to NFL DC, then Pats HC, then back to college for his USC HC stint for almost a decade, THEN his Seahawks HC run, and finally his washed up Oakland retirement lap

Whew. Pretty crazy career actually.

I always thought of him as an NFL Coach first. I guess because I knew he went from NFL DC to Pats HC. I think he was with Parcells with the Jets, if I'm not mistaken, then replaced Parcells in NE? Maybe? That timing might be off. I didn't know about his college stuff prior to getting the Pats job. I honestly didn't remember he was the Jets HC each.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

If he did it would be about Jesus lol...

He did write a book and it was about Jesus.

Game Plan for Life. I heard him talk about it on a radio hit when he was promoting it, and he said something like, "if we were all football players, God would be the coach." Or something like that.

Amazon.com

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Definitely possible, but Peters was a highly sought after candidate who had turned down multiple other opportunities, so I don’t feel too bad about it. If he flunks out here, I’ll look forward to the next “Peters”, but he’s pedigreed and he was super coveted around the league, so I won’t feel like the process that landed on him was bad. We’ll see, he’s still got time. I’m one of the more cynical people here in regards to his tenure but I still WANT to like him even beyond just wanting us to be good…he hypothetically has all the qualities and qualifications I want a stud GM to have, I’d really love him to build a legend here. I’m not seeing it yet but it’s not for lack of trying or lack of hope on my end

If we end up shopping for an entirely new regime I’ll definitely have a closer eye on the initial hiring process the second time around.

Wait wait wait. Here I am defending your honor against being called cynical and you own up to it?

Good God.

 

[Conn]

Wait wait wait. Here I am defending your honor against being called cynical and you own up to it?

Good God.

Hey now, I never disagreed

I’ve disagreed with the idea that I’m negative

My main thing over the years has always been that well-wielded cynicism is really just an attempt (not always successful) at rationality. But people who prefer the peace that defaulting to hopefulness gives them, inherently see that as “negativity”. Which I push back against!

 

[burgold]

I’ve disagreed with the idea that I’m negative

Too easy.

 

[NoCalSkins]

I was okay with Quinn depending on who the O-coordinator was. Wasn't too hot on the Kingsbury hire but it's not like I can lie and claim I was displeased with the 2024 season but I also figured the building of the team was still a work in progress and assembling a championship isn't always a linear process. A lot of times early in the build you have place holders up and down the organization especially at coaching positions and roster spots. Individuals who contribute in the first couple of seasons often expend their worth to the big picture and are sent packing.

 

[burgold]

The problem was never really with the '24 offense. It was probably the perfect offense to ease Daniels into the NFL. The problem was that offense failed to evolve in '25. Jayden was clearly ready to take the next step. More, defenses were ready for the '24 attack. They had an offseason to plan against it. So, the failure was that the game plan stayed the same. It needed to expand and grow to challenge both Daniels and the defenses who opposed him.

 

[DWinzit]

The problem was never really with the '24 offense. It was probably the perfect offense to ease Daniels into the NFL. The problem was that offense failed to evolve in '25. Jayden was clearly ready to take the next step. More, defenses were ready for the '24 attack. They had an offseason to plan against it. So, the failure was that the game plan stayed the same. It needed to expand and grow to challenge both Daniels and the defenses who opposed him.

It didn't evolve. There were numerous issues that caused that, not just general game planning and play calling. They didn't attack FA well leaving much to be desired and obvious holes on both sides of the ball. Then there were all the injuries on both sides of the ball. And then there was the lost DC and DQ letting him continue for so long. Okay, that's a few more issues than just the one problem.

 

[DWinzit]

I don't think Quan makes the 53...another shit high draft pick, amazing

 

[burgold]

It didn't evolve. There were numerous issues that caused that, not just general game planning and play calling. They didn't attack FA well leaving much to be desired and obvious holes on both sides of the ball. Then there were all the injuries on both sides of the ball. And then there was the lost DC and DQ letting him continue for so long. Okay, that's a few more issues than just the one problem.

As Al used to say in the most hound dog melancholy way on Happy Days... "Yep. yep. yep. yep."

(

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

The one thing I didn't want was a retread coach and because of that Quinn was last on my list. In 2024, he did show that a retread can still have the hunger to prove themselves. This year is the telling year. In some ways, I think Quinn is swinging for the fences by not only switching out both coordinators but choosing two radically different schemes.

I think the retread coach thing is over-played. It's also pejorative. It means experienced. Experience isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The thing is, most coaches in the NFL fail. Retread or "next hot thing." Doesn't matter. You know who were all experience hires?

- Bill Parcells: At the Cowboys, Jets and Pats. And he had success at all of them.
- Bill Belichick: Browns coach who then got the job at the Pats.
- Mike Holmgren: Seattle hired him after he won a SB in Green Bay, and he was very successful there.
- Andy Reid: He now owns the wins by a HC record for both the Eagles and Chiefs
- Mike Shanahan: He was HC of the Raiders before Al Davis fired him and he was hired by the Broncos and won 2 SBs and is one of the offensive geniuses of the modern NFL. ** He was also not a great retread coach here, I'm specifically calling out when the Broncos hired him.

Those are the ones which I just pulled immediately from the top of my head. There are plenty of examples of other HCs who failed once and succeeded in a second tenure.

Quinn wasn't my top choice. I never actually had a top choice. I wasn't anywhere near as high on Ben Johnson as others were. I remember a conversation, I think on ES where Conn said "I'm watching our next HC call plays and he's awesome" while watching a Lions game, and I commented something like "Groan, another run first offense" and I got BLASTED for it. (Maybe rightfully so, who knows. We'll see how that plays out with the Bears. Conn might end up being right about that one...)

And there are plenty of "shiny new toy" coordinators who have failed. Here's a list of first time HC's who also flamed out after being the "next hot thing." This list goes back to 2015, roughly 10 years. (Claude, aka Jean Claude, put this list together, so there's a chance it's not 100% right, but it looked correct to me.) They all were gone before 5 years. Some of the names on here are "why did they get the job to begin with" and some are "damn, he was the hot name!"

My overall point is you can find a good coach in a lot of ways, either the "next new thing" or "retread/experienced hire" and both can fail and both can succeed.

Coach	Team	Hired	Fired	Tenure	Prior Job (before 1st HC job)
Jim Tomsula	49ers	1/1/2015​	1/1/2016​	1 yr	49ers defensive line coach
Todd Bowles	Jets	1/1/2015​	12/1/2018​	~4 yrs	Cardinals defensive coordinator
Adam Gase	Dolphins	1/1/2016​	12/1/2018​	~3 yrs	Broncos offensive coordinator
Ben McAdoo	Giants	1/1/2016​	12/1/2017​	~2 yrs	Giants offensive coordinator
Dirk Koetter	Buccaneers	1/1/2016​	12/1/2018​	~3 yrs	Buccaneers offensive coordinator
Vance Joseph	Broncos	1/1/2017​	12/1/2018​	~2 yrs	Dolphins defensive coordinator
Anthony Lynn	Chargers	1/1/2017​	1/1/2021​	4 yrs	Bills offensive coordinator (briefly Bills interim HC, 1 game)
Steve Wilks	Cardinals	1/1/2018​	1/1/2019​	1 yr	Panthers defensive coordinator
Matt Nagy	Bears	1/1/2018​	1/1/2022​	4 yrs	Chiefs offensive coordinator
Matt Patricia	Lions	2/1/2018​	11/1/2020​	~2.75 yrs	Patriots defensive coordinator
Pat Shurmur	Giants	1/1/2018​	12/1/2019​	~2 yrs	Vikings offensive coordinator
Freddie Kitchens	Browns	1/1/2019​	12/1/2019​	1 yr	Browns offensive coordinator (interim, promoted from RB coach mid-2018)
Kliff Kingsbury	Cardinals	1/1/2019​	1/1/2023​	4 yrs	USC offensive analyst (previously Texas Tech HC, fired Nov 2018)
Vic Fangio	Broncos	1/1/2019​	1/1/2021​	2 yrs	Bears defensive coordinator
Brian Flores	Dolphins	2/1/2019​	1/1/2022​	~3 yrs	Patriots defensive assistant/de facto DC (safeties/linebackers coach)
Joe Judge	Giants	1/1/2020​	1/1/2022​	2 yrs	Patriots special teams coordinator/WR coach
Matt Rhule	Panthers	1/1/2020​	10/1/2022​	~2.75 yrs	Baylor head coach (college)
Urban Meyer	Jaguars	1/1/2021​	12/1/2021​	<1 yr	Fox Sports college football analyst (previously Ohio State HC)
David Culley	Texans	1/1/2021​	1/1/2022​	1 yr	Ravens assistant HC/passing game coordinator/WR coach
Arthur Smith	Falcons	1/1/2021​	1/1/2024​	3 yrs	Titans offensive coordinator
Robert Saleh	Jets	1/1/2021​	10/1/2024​	~3.75 yrs	49ers defensive coordinator
Nathaniel Hackett	Broncos	1/1/2022​	1/1/2023​	1 yr	Packers offensive coordinator
Brian Daboll	Giants	1/1/2022​	11/1/2025​	~3.9 yrs	Bills offensive coordinator
Mike McDaniel	Dolphins	2/1/2022​	1/1/2026​	4 yrs	49ers run game coordinator/offensive playcaller
Jonathan Gannon	Cardinals	2/1/2023​	1/1/2026​	~3 yrs	Eagles defensive coordinator
Jerod Mayo	Patriots	1/1/2024​	1/1/2025​	1 yr	Patriots linebackers coach
Antonio Pierce	Raiders	1/1/2024​	1/1/2025​	1 yr	Raiders linebackers coach (then interim HC, Oct 2023)
Brian Callahan	Titans	1/1/2024​	10/1/2025​	~1.75 yrs	Bengals offensive coordinator