The HC Dan Quinn Discussion Thread

[skinsinparadise]

Kliff is a workaholic, Daniels loves that. I’m not as concerned about that dynamic because whoever they bring in, if they don’t rise to the occasion and meet their franchise QB where he’s at and step up, then it was the wrong hire regardless. Kliff is a try hard, he’s essentially a bachelor married to the game. It doesn’t mean he’s working efficiently, we all know folk who performatively work 70 hours a week doing work that others do in 40-45 hours, just for the head pat. I’m exaggerating for humor on Kliff but come on. Lots of coaches around the league are essentially workaholics, and others have work flow each week that leads to success even if they don’t crow about a 3:00am wake up time. The right hire will make it work with Daniels, and the ways in which he develops and protects him (and offers him new tools to grow) would, hypothetically, make him an even better QB. Again, assuming the right hire. The grass is not always greener, but it’s not the fans job to make the hires, and the fans who aren’t Kliff fans, they aren’t influencing this move. So the FO and Quinn agree on some level, Kliff agrees on poor fit on some level (and agreed, he has a grievance with the lack of talent he was supplied outside the OL—but it’s not like he leaned hard on the run game to compensate and help himself or his QB, so?)

It’s not “who cares what Daniels thinks” so much as…no matter how well-intentioned and smart he is for a 24 year old QB, he doesn’t know what’s best for an organization. Sometimes you HAVE to take a guy’s binky away for him to grow correctly; sometimes the habits being formed are actually holding him back long term. We’ll see if that is the case in this situation.

Kliff's work ethic is highlighed so much because its unusual, that extent. Joe Gibbs got similar attention back in the day not because no one else was working like crazy but his version of crazy was crazier. Are the hours he's putting in not that efficient, I don't know. But reading a zillion articles about coordinators over the years, I've never read anything like the Kliff-Jayden getting into the office together before 5 am, running through the game plan before the rest of the team arrives, and doing walk throughs in the wee hours of the morning for even camp practices.

It's the combination. For all the Gibbs stories, there was nothing about Rypien and him working through the plan together. The two seem to have a great bond and regimen (Kliff and Daniels).

I admit part of my angst about this is I genuinely think no team has done worse for the 2024 drafted QB than this team has done for Jayden. Some might have forgotten but that narrative did exist in the 2024 off season. The Bears loaded up Caleb. But Jayden has it tough with this roster in comparison. But then the Bears coaching sucked, their O line was so so, and Washington was celebrated and that narrative died and some of that was about Kliff being much better at grooming Jayden then the Bears staff was.

But the Bears kept at it in 2025. Washington IMO put even more burden on Jayden to carry the team.

I am willing to give Peters and Quinn an out for 2025. But I feel about them the same I did about Rivera going into the last off season where I wanted to see what he did. And once I digested it, I hated it, and was out on him. i feel the same about these 2. They deserve a break IMO for 2025. But they've lost some trust from me. If they blow this off season IMO, I am out on them. Not saying dumping Kliff is a mistake. But I don't reflexively trust them anymore. I took my opinion out of the equation mostly last off season. But not anymore.

 

[Conn]

If our coordinators going into next season are Raheem Morris and Brian Johnson or something, then Quinn’s tenure will already be over but for the crying. There will be moments of hope with a healthy Jayden Daniels + more talent (assuming AP doesn’t also crash and burn in this hugely important year 3 offseason), but it will be a slow motion crash until AP (again, if he does his job well enough) is hiring his second HC. We’ll all spend the next 1-2 years watching OC —> HC candidates like a hawk. Because we’ll know we’re just waiting for this staff to bleed out.

And this is a problem with not having the offensive guru HC + vet DC (failed HC preferred) combo. It just is.

Sorry to say but to keep his job long term Quinn needs to nail these coordinator hires. It’s not a great situation to be in, but they did it to themselves.

 

[Boone]

No one has mentioned this other than you (repeatedly). Quinn has repeatedly praised Kingsbury, even with these "two year, undisguised red flags" you keep bring up, repeatedly. When I hear "undisguised red flags" from Keim, Galdi, or someone reputable, I listen.

Galdi said on this morning’s podcast that he thought when Quinn was asked in the presser about KK’s performance that he was expecting glowing remarks but that Quinn did not give them and that he thought it was very telling.

 

[Chris 44]

Was wondering what happened to Chick Hernandez after getting let go while covering the team in Spain.

 

[Riggo44]

If they blow this off season IMO, I am out on them.

Based on what they said in the press conference, we should be out on them if they blow this offseason. Harris too, if they don't have the resources to get what they need.

 

[UK Skins]

I'm an owl not a lark so it's probably not surprising the thought of waking up at 3am to start work at 5am freaks me out. But how much sleep is he getting?! Even at his age he'd have to go to sleep at what, 8pm?! That's can't be healthy.

 

[DWinzit]

Based on what they said in the press conference, we should be out on them if they blow this offseason. Harris too, if they don't have the resources to get what they need.

Or at least AP as well since it sounded like he is giving DQ maybe too much say

 

[Conn]

There are things I don't necessarily like about what Kliff does---the Minnesota game being the primary example--I think everyone agrees he called a shit game. My assumption on that is he got all his toys back and got pass-happy, playing right into Minnesota's hands. However, I look at how bad Jalen Hurts has gotten every year, and that scares the crap out of me. So there are improvements that need to be made--which, again, everyone agrees on--but tossing Kliff out without a plan is "Jay Gruden hiring Joe Barry instead of Wade Phillips" level short-sighted.

Not dismissing moving on from KK outright, I just don't see the benefit.

I get it, as I’ve said to others I think it’s a reasonable position to take on the topic.

I do think the Hurts regressing thing is mostly because he’s had some coordinators who don’t hide him as well. I do not think he’s elite, but he can get hot and thrive when used well. That’s SB MVP-level Hurts that we see at times when everything’s clicking. But watching him every week, that’s not who he is all the time. He’s streaky and he’s not an elite passer. It’s not been handled well by some of his coordinators.

I do not think Daniels needs to be hidden whatsoever, even just as a pure passer he has it in him to be elite and operate any offense in this league at a high level. He does need to be protected as a runner because he’s used to abusing that special ability he has, but that’s different imo.

 

[Riggo44]

Galdi said on this morning’s podcast that he thought when Quinn was asked in the presser about KK’s performance that he was expecting glowing remarks but that Quinn did not give them and that he thought it was very telling.

I heard that. Bullock said as much too: "That’s a lot of words to essentially say nothing, but if we’re reading between the lines, there were no real positives or endorsements of Kingsbury by Quinn in that answer. Obviously, that doesn’t necessarily mean anything, but given the opportunity to praise or back his offensive coordinator, Quinn didn’t say anything positive at all. It could just be an honest answer that they’re in evaluation mode, but I’d be surprised if Quinn doesn’t have a pretty strong view on Kingsbury. Quinn has typically been very quick to praise people that work for him and have their backs, so the fact he didn’t take that opportunity to do so is notable."

But all we're really left with is a non-answer that didn't give us a lot of leeway--except to read into it what we want to read into it--myself included. So we'll see, I don't think he'll be let go--but I know as much as you do. I try to rely more on Keim, Galdi, Standig, and proven, reliable reporters (Russini is not included in that). We shall see. I think I'll leave it at that.

 

[Riggo44]

Or at least AP as well since it sounded like he is giving DQ maybe too much say

AP, DQ, and Harris. All of them. But I think we'll be pleased at their approach. We'll see.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

No one has mentioned this other than you (repeatedly). Quinn has repeatedly praised Kingsbury, even with these "two year, undisguised red flags" you keep bring up, repeatedly. When I hear "undisguised red flags" from Keim, Galdi, or someone reputable, I listen.


Wait...you think the offense is going to get WORSE next year?

It is ok, you don’t have to believe me. I listen very closely to what people say and make judgements but keep in what is true and what is conjecture so I can adapt as needed.

If you want the simplest one that exists in one easy to digest presser (although it is tiring and if you just won’t listen, say so, because it kind of sounds that way), Kliff said in one presser last year that he has to be reminded to run. It was one presser last year. You can maybe find it if you don’t remember it.

As for your second quote, I said multiple times we may get worse next year on offense. Kliff has good stats. With more ball control, you may get worse stats. Heck you may just have bad chemistry, a bad choice at OC… odds are probably higher you will have worse stats. However, you will have different players, different DC, lots of moving parts, so lots of things can happen. I would think with a lot of change in one year, gambling on regression makes the most sense, but Josh Harris and AP are both on record as saying (AP parroting Harris) they don’t care about one year success. So if they see dysfunction but success, they should cut the problem out. Dysfunction is not tied to long term success.

Who knows how everything has played out exactly, but I take people at their word until the actions don’t match well. I think Josh is pretty consistent in his ownership (I follow NHL and NBA at least somewhat). Willing to do things that sacrifice short term for big picture. This fits the mold (from their perspective potentially, whether any fan agrees or not).

 

[skinsinparadise]

If our coordinators going into next season are Raheem Morris and Brian Johnson or something, then Quinn’s tenure will already be over but for the crying. There will be moments of hope with a healthy Jayden Daniels + more talent (assuming AP doesn’t also crash and burn in this hugely important year 3 offseason), but it will be a slow motion crash until AP (again, if he does his job well enough) is hiring his second HC. We’ll all spend the next 1-2 years watching OC —> HC candidates like a hawk. Because we’ll know we’re just waiting for this staff to bleed out.

And this is a problem with not having the offensive guru HC + vet DC (failed HC preferred) combo. It just is.

Sorry to say but to keep his job long term Quinn needs to nail these coordinator hires. It’s not a great situation to be in, but they did it to themselves.

Absolutely. While I've rejected some of the Quinn-Rivera comps some have made -- I do think if Quinn goes for comfort over quality in his next coordinators and it blows up on him i am out.

By and large, my gut is Quinn and Peters bounce back from last years poor performance from both. And yeah I do think injuries were the main theme for last years debacle. But I didn't love Quinn-Peters IMO mix of arrogance and head in the sand effort on some fronts.

The template is right in front of them. We can see it. I am sure they can see it too but can they overcome their own weaknesses to act on it. I suspect they can. But if they don't am out.

 

[skinsinparadise]

AP, DQ, and Harris. All of them. But I think we'll be pleased at their approach. We'll see.

I think so too.

DQ worries me the most of the three. Even though I put last off season more on Peters than Quinn -- I got the vibe that Peters is more ruthless (in a good way) than Quinn.

 

[Riggo44]

I do not think Daniels needs to be hidden whatsoever, even just as a pure passer he has it in him to be elite and operate any offense in this league at a high level. He does need to be protected as a runner because he’s used to abusing that special ability he has, but that’s different imo.

A lot of this is on Daniels too, he wants to run and scramble, which is great, but that's a different kind of discussion all together. There has to be safeguards put in.

 

[DWinzit]

I think so too.

DQ worries me the most of the three. Even though I put last off season more on Peters than Quinn -- I got the vibe that Peters is more ruthless (in a good way) than Quinn.

Agreed and why I almost feel disappointed in AP. I understand them working as a team but AP, especially with the reasons he was such a high profile hire, need to see him express his strength not show DQs as much

 

[Riggo44]

I do think if Quinn goes for comfort over quality in his next coordinators and it blows up on him i am out.

This is another I would be shocked at--this is what doomed him in Atlanta--and he made it a point to talk about during the process last year. He has to know he needs to nail this DC hire. Likewise, unless KK is hired elsewhere, I find it unlikely that they downgrade at OC because...

 

[Conn]

Kliff's work ethic is highlighed so much because its unusual, that extent. Joe Gibbs got similar attention back in the day not because no one else was working like crazy but his version of crazy was crazier. Are the hours he's putting in not that efficient, I don't know. But reading a zillion articles about coordinators over the years, I've never read anything like the Kliff-Jayden getting into the office together before 5 am, running through the game plan before the rest of the team arrives, and doing walk throughs in the wee hours of the morning for even camp practices.

It's the combination. For all the Gibbs stories, there was nothing about Rypien and him working through the plan together. The two seem to have a great bond and regimen (Kliff and Daniels).

I admit part of my angst about this is I genuinely think no team has done worse for the 2024 drafted QB than this team has done for Jayden. Some might have forgotten but that narrative did exist in the 2024 off season. The Bears loaded up Caleb. But Jayden has it tough with this roster in comparison. But then the Bears coaching sucked, their O line was so so, and Washington was celebrated and that narrative died and some of that was about Kliff being much better at grooming Jayden then the Bears staff was.

But the Bears kept at it in 2025. Washington IMO put even more burden on Jayden to carry the team.

I am willing to give Peters and Quinn an out for 2025. But I feel about them the same I did about Rivera going into the last off season where I wanted to see what he did. And once I digested it, I hated it, and was out on him. i feel the same about these 2. They deserve a break IMO for 2025. But they've lost some trust from me. If they blow this off season IMO, I am out on them. Not saying dumping Kliff is a mistake. But I don't reflexively trust them anymore. I took my opinion out of the equation mostly last off season. But not anymore.

You know I agree with you about how AP set up this offense to fail. With you there. My issues with Kliff are more systemic and long term, I didn’t expect the situation to actually come to a head for at least another year. I’ve been of the mind that he’d be Daniels’ first OC, and that we’d look back on it mostly fondly but that it wasn’t meant to be long term as Quinn is eventually replaced by the sort of young OC we all assumed was in the cards originally.

So it happening now makes it feel like there’s something terrible happening in these meeting rooms and with the playcalling, and that’s never been my argument. I’ve always taken the long view on why I don’t support this scheme and philosophy as a SB-winning endeavor as Daniels grows. To rip that bandaid off now while he’s still on his rookie contract and hasn’t actually grown that much yet, I didn’t expect things to go so badly that it would be realistic this soon. So even as an outspoken anti-Kliff guy, I didn’t expect this timeline on things.

I 100% get what you’re saying about the legendary Kliff work ethic and the relationship with Daniels. But you have to understand that if I’m not happy with the output of that epic work ethic and relationship, then I’m not going to value those aspects as highly as you, because clearly the work product it’s producing isn’t what I want, big picture. If we hire the right person, they’ll do what they have to do with Daniels to be successful. If they don’t, this staff is sunk anyways.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Agreed and why I almost feel disappointed in AP. I understand them working as a team but AP, especially with the reasons he was such a high profile hire, need to see him express his strength not show DQs as much

Keim mentioned GMs are usually hands of the coaching hires. But in general I liked AP's presser yesterday, it was no excuses, and he at times looked intense. And he slipped in some answers I liked. To protect Jayden give him weapons and a better defense, admitted it was a lesson to him what happened at WR, highlighting edge.

It has stuck with me Bram saying he's been around a lot of football guys but never anyone as competitive as Peters. lol, Peters had that eye of the tiger IMO yesterday.

Quinn comes off very humbled by everything, also no excuses. All of that is great. But part of me wonders is him being this super nice personality, father figure type, who is just way too nice. So the type who would love a Raheem Morris because of his personality as an example. Working with dudes that give the vibe of a Tony Robbins seminar. And to me there are limits to that. I probably value motivation more than most but there is a real chess game component to this game, too.

 

[Conn]

A lot of this is on Daniels too, he wants to run and scramble, which is great, but that's a different kind of discussion all together. There has to be safeguards put in.

I think as a rookie, when he scrambled it was mainly how I envision him working if he’s going to play at an elite level for a long time. Frustrate the defense when there isn’t anything there by running for the first down, be more aggressive with it in the red zone and on 4th down, but protect yourself and don’t take unnecessary punishment. He had a frustrating habit of taking a hit going out of bounds behind the LOS instead of just throwing the ball away, but other than that he was pretty smart with it when he called his own number outside of an RPO. This year, he got more reckless and desperate and tried to play hero ball when nothing was working. Coaches didn’t help him with their calls.

Going forward, mostly remove designed runs, and get Daniels to understand his role as the franchise QB depends on being healthy so that he can play and win a lot of games (he sounds well on his way after that last presser of the season). His legs are a garnish on top of an elite passer if he is to have the career he wants, not the main course.

 

[Riggo44]

But you have to understand that if I’m not happy with the output of that epic work ethic and relationship, then I’m not going to value those aspects as highly as you, because clearly the work product itself producing isn’t what I want, but picture. If we hire the right person, they’ll do what they have to do with Daniels to be successful. If they don’t, this staff is sunk anyways.

I will disagree, partially at least here. KK was able to cobble together a competent offense in a cave with a box of scraps. So while Daniels regressed for a variety of reasons, partially due to play calls, the work ethic did produce results overall.