Official Game Thread - Week 15 - Commanders @ Giants

To be fair one of the times Hamilton answered the call today, he had been toasted by Slayton and then Dart underthrew the potential TD enough that Hamilton was able to catch up and knock it out. In the end he did his job but a better (not even perfect, just better) throw and he gives up the TD there like we have all season
 
Commander Wraith said:
I did like his stem though, even if it looked a little odd. Speaking of TEs, I hope Yankoff’s alright. He’s another I’d like to see get some action in these last games.

As of now, I would not mind him being our #4 next year.

I hope his… knee(?) is ok, because I’m right there with you. The fumbling is problematic though. He could use the Tiki Barber treatment, lol.
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But…but…he is 32. Need to let him go and get younger and replace him with a rookie 6th round pick.
 
method man said:
But…but…he is 32. Need to let him go and get younger and replace him with a rookie 6th round pick.
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Based off your previous comment(s), I assume this is sarcasm :)

I do think they’ve done a pretty good job of adding youth throughout the roster, even though I outlined in an earlier post how the setup in some positions is maybe a little odd. The main problem going forward is finding quality - to take over from Ertz and Wagner, to add to the corner spot, and of course at DE/WR (where they could use 2 of each).
 
I went in hoping for a loss. Btu when the game started I just could not root for the New York GIants. But being OK either way I really enjoyed that last fumble and seeing the Giants lateral like there was no time left on the clock. But it was good to see our team play well again.

JCM supported my position that we do not need to address the RB room, there are far bigger needs.

Hamilton is built like a safety but he played very well, even though as noted a TD was underthrown and he was able to break up the play.

Vilma was horrible. My favorite part of the game was when he said the Giants should be challenging Sairistill and Hamilton. Then they did just that and Mikey got a pick on a really good play. Where has that been all year? Hell for 2 seasons?
 
Commander Wraith said:
Based off your previous comment(s), I assume this is sarcasm :)

I do think they’ve done a pretty good job of adding youth throughout the roster, even though I outlined in an earlier post how the setup in some positions is maybe a little odd. The main problem going forward is finding quality - to take over from Ertz and Wagner, to add to the corner spot, and of course at DE/WR (where they could use 2 of each).
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"to add to the corner spot"- I feel like we are saying that even more than annually now.

We had a complete revamp to DBs from the beginning of last year. BSJ + Forbes -> Jones + Lattimore. Noah I was made inactive for much of the season (for quite a few games, maybe 10?).

To me, it's pretty clear based on all of that, our coaching on the DB side is beyond bad. I know, DL/rush affects it, but we've seen it with our eyes. The miscommunications, the struggles, the <insert issue here> - it's been horrendous. So I am not sure what the corner evaluation looks like with these coaches. I would almost say let's get new DB coaches in place and strength the other spots where we have a much better feeling for what we have.
 
Darrell Green Fan said:
I went in hoping for a loss. Btu when the game started I just could not root for the New York GIants. But being OK either way I really enjoyed that last fumble and seeing the Giants lateral like there was no time left on the clock. But it was good to see our team play well again.

JCM supported my position that we do not need to address the RB room, there are far bigger needs.

Hamilton is built like a safety but he played very well, even though as noted a TD was underthrown and he was able to break up the play.

Vilma was horrible. My favorite part of the game was when he said the Giants should be challenging Sairistill and Hamilton. Then they did just that and Mikey got a pick on a really good play. Where has that been all year? Hell for 2 seasons?
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At least with this scheme Mike is an outside corner and not a nickel. He's been better since he was moved back outside. Being of the Darrell Green generation, I'm okay with smaller corners as long as they are excellent. So far, the same is true of Coleman also. Coleman has been a much better tackle than guard.

These two moves do make wonder about the evaluation process. I wonder if this is a shortcoming of "analytics." If the coaches are too wed to measurables and not performance and what their eyes tell them. Now, it's still possible that Coleman and Sainristil will ultimately become better at guard and nickel respectively, but as it stands, the coaches should have benched Latimore half a season ago and put Mike back outside. The harder question is how Coleman would have transitioned to right tackle and would he be Connerly's equal or better? If so, we could have snagged one of those highly rated pass rushers.

I think the only reason that Mike was moved was because of size. Quinn even said something to the effect saying that you could get away with one smaller player at corner but that you needed length there. Almost makes me think they're too focused on what a player should look like versus how they play. In other words, they want players that look like Tarzan even if they play like Jane.
 
burgold said:
At least with this scheme Mike is an outside corner and not a nickel. He's been better since he was moved back outside. Being of the Darrell Green generation, I'm okay with smaller corners as long as they are excellent. So far, the same is true of Coleman also. Coleman has been a much better tackle than guard.

These two moves do make wonder about the evaluation process. I wonder if this is a shortcoming of "analytics." If the coaches are too wed to measurables and not performance and what their eyes tell them. Now, it's still possible that Coleman and Sainristil will ultimately become better at guard and nickel respectively, but as it stands, the coaches should have benched Latimore half a season ago and put Mike back outside. The harder question is how Coleman would have transitioned to right tackle and would he be Connerly's equal or better? If so, we could have snagged one of those highly rated pass rushers.

I think the only reason that Mike was moved was because of size. Quinn even said something to the effect saying that you could get away with one smaller player at corner but that you needed length there. Almost makes me think they're too focused on what a player should look like versus how they play. In other words, they want players that look like Tarzan even if they play like Jane.
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They dumped BSJ although I think his size was good.

Removing all biases, I think BSJ would have been better than what we have gotten from Jones this year, and it's not really close. The unit that has been arguably the most destructive to this year was DB and that is saying something, considering the losses to WR. I know, most people will pick WR, but I am just saying no one should underrate -
1) the amount of investment we put into DB (how much change occurred, probably a lot of thought into improvements there)
2) the amount we regressed, unit-wide, in terms of what we saw out of them
3) the amount of issues we had picking the "right" players - this isn't just about BSJ or Forbes, it's also about Mikey in the slot, trusting others to be better, making Noah I inactive. It's almost every wrong decision - all of them have been changed out due to injury or poor play after MANY games, and all of them seem improved since then. Of course, coaching changed - but that may have fed into these changes so it may be more related than unrelated.

Very alarming stuff.
 
SkinsNumberOne said:
They dumped BSJ although I think his size was good.

Removing all biases, I think BSJ would have been better than what we have gotten from Jones this year, and it's not really close. The unit that has been arguably the most destructive to this year was DB and that is saying something, considering the losses to WR. I know, most people will pick WR, but I am just saying no one should underrate -
1) the amount of investment we put into DB (how much change occurred, probably a lot of thought into improvements there)
2) the amount we regressed, unit-wide, in terms of what we saw out of them
3) the amount of issues we had picking the "right" players - this isn't just about BSJ or Forbes, it's also about Mikey in the slot, trusting others to be better, making Noah I inactive. It's almost every wrong decision - all of them have been changed out due to injury or poor play after MANY games, and all of them seem improved since then. Of course, coaching changed - but that may have fed into these changes so it may be more related than unrelated.

Very alarming stuff.
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I’ll point out that St Juste wasn’t exactly dumped, we didn’t re-sign him.

I also think there’s been this vector of -
A poor secondary practicing against a poor pass catching group in the offseason, and the potential that messed with evaluation.
Complaints from players about Whitt’s defense
Problems stopping the run forcing us to bring a safety up, which means less help for corners and stresses those corners, especially when playing man coverage.
Whitt feeling like he had to “simplify” the defense both years.
Whitt trying all sorts of different coverages once his plan A - predominantly man coverage - failed this year.
Igbinoghene being on the trade block (and did that affect him being active?).

I’m sure I could come up with more.

And so many of those things then feed off each other, making evaluation of individuals (and position coaches) that much harder. I don’t disagree with your points, I just see so many things playing into the soup that I have trouble feeling like I know exactly what the problem is. Hopefully DQ and Peters have a much better sense of things.
 
I missed the game this week, the first time I haven’t watched the team live in many years, but I had a very good reason besides the team being horrible. I did watch the recording though.

I’m glad we got a win, and it was good to see strong performances from some of the young guys like Jaylin Lane, JCM, Ben Sinnott, Mikey Sainristil, and Brandon Coleman.

I also enjoyed seeing Von Miller adding to his Hall of Fame resume, and I have hope Jake Moody will be the answer for us at kicker.

However, if we’re being honest, we only won because we were playing the worst team in the league. A better team would have made us pay for those fumbles in the fourth quarter.

This season is such a letdown after last year. I’ve sworn to myself I won’t get my hopes up again until I see real sustained success, but I am glad we finally broke the losing streak.
 
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It’s a case of built for sustained success vs trying to quickly catch lightning in a bottle.

I think most of us that remember the Gibbs years hope for the former.

When you see the team go the other way you can appreciate the wins but realize the clock is ticking on the team and its ability to compete.

We are now I believe going to do the right thing - get younger and faster and build better depth.

It took a 4-10 year where nothing has gone right for Peters and Quinn to realize how shallow the draft was on this boat.
 
The Mariota choke job at the end of games doesn't bother me as to the future. That's what he is. It's not what Jayden is. So none of it, whether its the pick at the end of the Dolphins game, getting the ball batted down at the end of the Denver game (granted that one wasn't too bad), the turnovers when he came into games in relief, and the fumble last Sunday among others -- I am not crazy about it but unless Mariota is our new hope for the future and the new franchise QB, it doesn't matter.

Giants were 15th in offense coming into the game. They were the favorites. They are an odd team -- Dart is playing well, they got good pass rushers, etc. They blew 5 games this season at the end of the game. This wasn't beating a big team, of course. But it didn't feel like a nothing win either. They were in command of the whole game. Mariota trying to choke it away means nothing to me as to the future.
 
Quinn owns the Giants. I don't think he's ever lost to them as a head coach.
 
skinsinparadise said:
The Mariota choke job at the end of games doesn't bother me as to the future. That's what he is. It's not what Jayden is. So none of it, whether its the pick at the end of the Dolphins game, getting the ball batted down at the end of the Denver game (granted that one wasn't too bad), the turnovers when he came into games in relief, and the fumble last Sunday among others -- I am not crazy about it but unless Mariota is our new hope for the future and the new franchise QB, it doesn't matter.

Giants were 15th in offense coming into the game. They were the favorites. They are an odd team -- Dart is playing well, they got good pass rushers, etc. They blew 5 games this season at the end of the game. This wasn't beating a big team, of course. But it didn't feel like a nothing win either. They were in command of the whole game. Mariota trying to choke it away means nothing to me as to the future.
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I also think though the two point conversion play was a mistake. Mariota near the goal line should have been in position to fake run to one side and counter boot to the edge on other side and have a fighting chance to take the ball in.

Kliff in that situation needs to run a play for who is on the field not a play he would have called for Daniels.
 
Faithful Fan said:
Maybe not, but our season turned on this fumble in the Chicago game:

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One play, if it was here we go again with Jayden choking at the end it would bother me. That's not what he majors in. It is what Mariota majors in.

I don't care about one offs with any player otherwise I'd be down on everyone.
 
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