2025 Washington Commanders- All Things Defense

[method man]

Maybe so, though Jean Baptiste was like 240lbs coming out vs I want to say like 270 for Wise… not that weight is everything.

Interesting factoid. He had bad food poisoning before the combine and was light 10-15 pounds relative to his normal weight

 

[method man]

With Joe Whitt I do think we had some scheme issues, but personnel was probably the bigger issue. With Quinn, I don't feel like scheme is a big issue, we just lack the personnel

I feel like Javontae Jean Baptiste was teh back up in teh Deatrich Wise mold (edge setter who is a pocket collapser in pass rush) and he was lost two games after Wise was lost for the season. So you lost the starter for the season week 2 and the backup in week 4. Of the initial 5 DE's, Dorrence Armstrong was the balanced one who could set an edge and get to the passer, he was lost in week 7. The only two that remain are guys I saw as pass rush specialists in Jacob Martin and Von Miller. Martin has actually been a tad better than I expected, but my expectations for him were pretty low.

Guys who were supposed to be solid edge setters like Holmes and Preston Smith have been completely useless too. I want to see Drake Jackson this season. He is a bigger EDGE with some pass rush juice

Separately, I find it odd they never brought Ferrell back. He’s been available through different parts of the season. He’s not very good but he’s at least a more useful player than Smith and Holmes

 

[Commander Wraith]

Interesting factoid. He had bad food poisoning before the combine and was light 10-15 pounds relative to his normal weight

Interesting indeed, thanks for setting me straight.
I don’t think we can say that injuries explain everything that’s wrong with this team, but losing multiple guys at multiple positions certainly makes things more difficult. Probably even more so when we’re still so early into building the draft pipeline (a pipeline that was arguably broken under Rivera).

To add to that last point, and I’m going to very uncharacteristically bold this because it’s not something I’ve seen mentioned and I think it’s a key point (not to pat myself on the back or anything, lol):

It’s not just about 2 years of drafting, it’s those depth guys that teams re-sign to cheap deals. The 25-28 year-olds (ie, guys in their prime) that provide quality depth because they’re now vets, you’ve seen them in your system, and they know their roles. Off the top of my head, the only guy I can come up with that fits that description for us is Reaves.

Guys who were supposed to be solid edge setters like Holmes and Preston Smith have been completely useless too. I want to see Drake Jackson this season. He is a bigger EDGE with some pass rush juice

Separately, I find it odd they never brought Ferrell back. He’s been available through different parts of the season. He’s not very good but he’s at least a more useful player than Smith and Holmes

Last year I thought Ferrell was a nice addition because of his run D abilities (including his associated PFF grade). Don’t know what happened, but it seems like the staff apparently thought his play dipped or they wanted more of a pass rush than he offered?
Don’t wanna put too much into it, but yeah, I’m looking forward to seeing Jackson as well.

 

[Riggo44]

Guys who were supposed to be solid edge setters like Holmes and Preston Smith have been completely useless too. I want to see Drake Jackson this season. He is a bigger EDGE with some pass rush juice

Separately, I find it odd they never brought Ferrell back. He’s been available through different parts of the season. He’s not very good but he’s at least a more useful player than Smith and Holmes

Ultimately, there's a reason why Smith and Ferrell were available when they were...

Before the injuries took out our top 3 DEs, I thought the DL looked pretty good. Maybe that's just me--DA was a solid pass rusher, Kinlaw and Payne weren't facing the brunt of the attention, and Wise did will against the run. JJB was a good rotational piece. How many times has Kinlaw been double and triple teamed? Do they even need to block Holmes and Smith?/

If they add a dynamic pass rusher on the other side of Armstrong this year and an athletic LB to replace Wagner; Quan Walker and Devin Lloyd both wear the green dot for their respective teams and I think our front 7 is actually good.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

There are players, especially young guys, who really take to their coaching - *good* and *bad.*

So when you see serious regression in performance, sometimes it's coaching.

I think overall Sainristil hasn't looked so bad on the outside this year, so he's less of a concern to me. When I look at the DBs as a whole, I am highly concerned - and again, this would point more to the DB coaching. Sainristil has looked bad in the slot - but on the outside, he was able to do more at least.

I do agree with you that I have question marks on him though. I always have, frankly - I didn't like that trade down. They actually did the opposite of what I would have done in consecutive years:
- Say yes to trade down in 2024 (Would have said no, taken Dejean - they either didn't like something about DeJean, some here have said an injury history - or they really liked the idea of Sainristil + Sinnott v. Dejean - or a combination of the two; I don't get it, based on how Sinnott has/hasn't been used)
- Say no to trade down in 2025. I like Connerly but I don't understand why he would be considered a "must" get at that spot when he hadn't slipped in general; if you were targeting Connerly, for me, you roll the dice on him still being available and if he's not, you go to your next guys; it's not clear to me why they put him on a pedestal). I really like Connerly.

I mean, at the end of the day, you have to go with your convictions as a GM, so I have 0 problems with any of it. I can see the logic. My question now is based on usage of Sinnott, and based on Connerly being a "must get" - my question would be how much is AP making the decisions and how much is he collaborating?

I think AP comes from the John Lynch / Kyle S training, and that is a highly collaborative process where Kyle S has a lot of input and guidance into the draft in my understanding. That isn't for every coach. Right now, if I had to guess, I would say AP is taking way, way too much input from coaches who don't have a great handle on making these types of decisions. We talk about "BPA" early and often; that is not what we have seen here in these first two drafts - and I think any reasonable approach involving analytics would make that clear. So my conclusion here, right now, is AP is taking a lot of input from his coaches - which can be good, but when you review yourself and do some self-critique.. I hope he will adapt that strategy if so.

I don't think Howie takes much input, or put it another way, I think he makes it clear where the buck stops. I think he trusts his own personal process above all, and I think that is in general the better way to go (not many HCs have a good enough handle on the complexities of the draft, and that should be totally fine; give them the players and let them work their magic on the shaping).

I have thought this many times this year: how different would this year have been if we had picked Jihaad Campbell in the 1st round instead of Connerly? Hard to know. A young, fast, talented LB was a bit of a need for us though, and he was easily arguable as BPA above Connerly at our pick, and that is not revisionist history. It was fairly common consensus at the time.

I agree the coaching is a real issue with player development. But I'm concerned about Sainristill because he can't play the slot and can't play man coverage on the outside. So that really limits the DC.

 

[Riggo44]

Well, Wink Martindale is now available!

 

[Riggo44]

 

[Riggo44]

 

[Conn]

Don’t love that we’re at the end of year two with Newton, halfway through his rookie contract, and we’re still trying to figure out what he’s good at. Way too much pedigree to be this unsure about him. I guess with everything else this was always going to be a nightmare season, so if he’s a late bloomer he’ll just join the rest of the roster in waking up next year. But he needs to bloom.

 

[DWinzit]

Don’t love that we’re at the end of year two with Newton, halfway through his rookie contract, and we’re still trying to figure out what he’s good at. Way too much pedigree to be this unsure about him. I guess with everything else this was always going to be a nightmare season, so if he’s a late bloomer he’ll just join the rest of the roster in waking up next year. But he needs to bloom.

Yes. It is another knock on Whitt and the defensive staffs poor or delayed developing process. At least he is maybe working in a positive direction.

I hope the staff has been fully evaluated to date and upgrades will be made by early January.

 

[Conn]

Yes. It is another knock on Whitt and the defensive staffs poor or delayed developing process. At least he is maybe working in a positive direction.

I hope the staff has been fully evaluated to date and upgrades will be made by early January.

It also is going to have me keeping a close eye on the “this player is a steal and they wanted him earlier!” type draft chatter. I didn’t look too deeply into it with Newton and just bought that we got a 1st round talent in the 2nd round. Obviously every pick is a risk, it doesn’t necessarily speak to bad process on the valuation. But I’ll be a little more skeptical going forward, this staff has lost a bit of my benefit of the doubt. Makes me wonder if some defensive positional coaches that shouldn’t be here going forward pounded the table for him in their scheme, and got the projection wrong, or if he was a true blue chip evaluation for our scouting department + AP and shit just happens.

 

[method man]

It also is going to have me keeping a close eye on the “this player is a steal and they wanted him earlier!” type draft chatter. I didn’t look too deeply into it with Newton and just bought that we got a 1st round talent in the 2nd round. Obviously every pick is a risk, it doesn’t necessarily speak to bad process on the valuation. But I’ll be a little more skeptical going forward, this staff has lost a bit of my benefit of the doubt. Makes me wonder if some defensive positional coaches that shouldn’t be here going forward pounded the table for him in their scheme, and got the projection wrong, or if he was a true blue chip evaluation for our scouting department + AP and shit just happens.

To be fair, he was a 1st on consensus boards. Sinnott, Luke and Lane were big reaches and all three are meh

 

[Boone]

With some of the 'apparent' recent draft misses (and as Primus Porcus will remind us, it may be early to definitively say that), you also have to look at our scouting department. Yes - all teams miss in the draft, but there are also many teams who don't overthink it, or try to find 'steals', and who just make low risk no-brainer selections. I consider the Josh Conerly Jr. selection last year that type of pick vs. going after a Ben Sinnott or Mccaffery or Newton type 'see how smart we are' pick. Based on what we think we know, this front office is big on sticking to it's big board. There's nothing wrong with that kind of discipline if you believe in BPA. But that means your draft is much less about front office 'decisions' than it is about how good a job your scouting guys have done in assessing overall available talent. We focus on the decision-makers, but sometimes it's the infrastructure that is holding you back.

 

[Riggo44]

To be fair, he was a 1st on consensus boards. Sinnott, Luke and Lane were big reaches and all three are meh

I'll give you Sinnott, he's been a disappointment and I loved that pick at the time, but Layne and LMC are very useful players. Most third and fourth rounders don't amount to anything. They're rotational receivers and excellent returners, right now. Those are valuable picks.

I mean they're no Dax Milne. 🤣

But back on the defensive topic. With the expected defensive turnover, I would not be opposed to keeping Norton, and maybe Tapp. Magee is coming along and developing it seems, and wonder if Medrano is the same kind of development arc.

 

[method man]

I'll give you Sinnott, he's been a disappointment and I loved that pick at the time, but Layne and LMC are very useful players. Most third and fourth rounders don't amount to anything. They're rotational receivers and excellent returners, right now. Those are valuable picks.

I mean they're no Dax Milne. 🤣

But back on the defensive topic. With the expected defensive turnover, I would not be opposed to keeping Norton, and maybe Tapp. Magee is coming along and developing it seems, and wonder if Medrano is the same kind of development arc.

I think Tapp and Norton have done good jobs. For Tapp, it must really help having Von Miller around to help teach everyone else

 

[DWinzit]

Sinnott lined up a lot in the backfield and looked good on a lot of lead blocks. I did see he and Luke as reaches but Lane went around where he should have gone.

 

[DogofWar1]

This stuff actually annoys me a fair bit, because 1 of 2 things is happening. Either A) Magee sucks, or B) the coaches do not believe in playing young players and giving them reps.

Either way, it's a major problem. Guys can't improve without reps. Magee should be out there a lot. On offense Sinnott should be out there a lot. Newton should be out there. Putting a 36 year old vet out there (who is pretty clearly done after this year) in a game where we've been eliminated from the playoffs over the 2nd year guy who should be the future, I have a problem with that. Something isn't adding up with all these young guys getting so few reps.

 

[DWinzit]

This stuff actually annoys me a fair bit, because 1 of 2 things is happening. Either A) Magee sucks, or B) the coaches do not believe in playing young players and giving them reps.

Either way, it's a major problem. Guys can't improve without reps. Magee should be out there a lot. On offense Sinnott should be out there a lot. Newton should be out there. Putting a 36 year old vet out there (who is pretty clearly done after this year) in a game where we've been eliminated from the playoffs over the 2nd year guy who should be the future, I have a problem with that. Something isn't adding up with all these young guys getting so few reps.

Annoying is a nice way to put it. It is a real shame they are squandering the opportunity to get these players game time. At this point in the season, they need to be focusing on leveling them for the future.

DQ talked some of these guys up earlier in the week, missed opportunities.

 

[Conn]

This stuff actually annoys me a fair bit, because 1 of 2 things is happening. Either A) Magee sucks, or B) the coaches do not believe in playing young players and giving them reps.

Either way, it's a major problem. Guys can't improve without reps. Magee should be out there a lot. On offense Sinnott should be out there a lot. Newton should be out there. Putting a 36 year old vet out there (who is pretty clearly done after this year) in a game where we've been eliminated from the playoffs over the 2nd year guy who should be the future, I have a problem with that. Something isn't adding up with all these young guys getting so few reps.

It’s just malpractice. SIP posted about how Keim thinks the team sees Magee as a potential green dot guy next year.

Well how the fuck will they know before this offseason, before FA and the draft, if he doesn’t get more snaps? Never mind the other young guys.

This staff is pissing me off

 

[Riggo44]

Welp, turns out Forbes actually just sucks.