Official Game Thread - Week 11 - International Game - Dolphins vs Commanders

[Darrell Green Fan]

I was glad they put on a decent show in front of the fans there. Despite the low score that was a pretty entertaining game with no punts and fewer than usual penalties. When they hit Layne and he was drilled I thought to myself this is pretty good football they are seeing. Shame it had to end on a bad pick.

I haven't gone so far as to openly root against them. No I was cheering the good plays. But in the end yes this was the best outcome, they need a top pick.

Not sure what to make of the defense. Again their opponent had no problem moving the ball up and down the field.

Now let's discuss Mike Sainristill. He was more of a goat than Gay IMO. A pick was right there for him and he couldn't catch it. Not sure why he was the return man with 2 minutes to do but he looked so shaky even before he fumbled. They were all set for a game winning drive and he totally changed the game.

Can we stop with the nonsense about needing a RB? This is the best running back room we've had in years. Bill is not a problem, we've seen when he has any space at all that he can make yards, CRod is better than BRob and McNichols has made a ton of big plays.

 

[method man]

I have meant to look for the nepotism connections at some point; I figured there were some with Ed Donatell given his career. Interesting information.

I have to admit, it looks like Ed has a fairly disconnected direct connection with his son. So, it could be that the interview is sort of like, "Hey I know this guy's father, I am really comfortable with this guy" and so it's not like "I am hiring him no matter what" but there can easily be a bias based on that ease of communication and comfort level, rather than a clean eval of Xs and Os.

This is part of what I was getting at in that other thread where I was discussing how you'd hire coordinators. You have to be really careful to even protect yourself from yourself. We are all human. I am sure some real nepotism exists and occurs, but I also think that some guys may think they are being somewhat impartial and picking the best guys... while they are emphatically not. Some of it is human nature.

At the end of the day, guys consistently give the sone of the guy who gave them a shot a shot. There are human nature reasons for why and one is feeling a debt. A good example is the last staff.

After Ron got fired by the Bears as DC in the aughts. Norv threw him a lifeline in SD. From there, he eventually became a HC with the Panthers and brought both Norv and Scott. Despite Scott showing nothing as interim OC after Norv was fired in 2018, Ron gave him the job here anyway

 

[method man]

I was glad they put on a decent show in front of the fans there. Despite the low score that was a pretty entertaining game with no punts and fewer than usual penalties. When they hit Layne and he was drilled I thought to myself this is pretty good football they are seeing. Shame it had to end on a bad pick.

I haven't gone so far as to openly root against them. No I was cheering the good plays. But in the end yes this was the best outcome, they need a top pick.

Not sure what to make of the defense. Again their opponent had no problem moving the ball up and down the field.

Now let's discuss Mike Sainristill. He was more of a goat than Gay IMO. A pick was right there for him and he couldn't catch it. Not sure why he was the return man with 2 minutes to do but he looked so shaky even before he fumbled. They were all set for a game winning drive and he totally changed the game.

Can we stop with the nonsense about needing a RB? This is the best running back room we've had in years. Bill is not a problem, we've seen when he has any space at all that he can make yards, CRod is better than BRob and McNichols has made a ton of big plays.

How is getting a tooled up starting back nonsense? After years of Alfred Morris/Rob Kelley/Gibson/BRob type of talents starting for us, you have Ashburn Syndrome.

We haven’t a great highly skilled back since Portis. This is an easy position to add that type of talent at a relatively cheap price

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

How is getting a tooled up starting back nonsense? After years of Alfred Morris/Rob Kelley/Gibson/BRob type of talents starting for us, you have Ashburn Syndrome.

We haven’t a great highly skilled back since Portis. This is an easy position to add that type of talent at a relatively cheap price

A month ago everyone loved JCM, he has the explosion we have lacked and showed surprising power to move the pile. Teams started stacking the box, the OL is simply not providing any room to run, and now he is a back in need of an upgrade. I'm just not buying it, JCM is a fine RB IMO.

 

[Chris]

TBD. Earlier in the season he popped and provided recency bias. Is it the oline, the fumbles, the needed improvement in pass pro? For me the jury is out but I’m nowhere near cutting bait.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I really don't understand why we are discussing RB. That is near the bottom of needs when we discuss position groups. Other than starting QB I can argue every single position group is more in need of upgrades.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I really don't understand why we are discussing RB. That is near the bottom of needs when we discuss position groups. Other than starting QB I can argue every single position group is more in need of upgrades.

I tend to agree with you on multiple points here.
- they were high on JCM and it is unclear why he has struggled recently but he definitely has, after flashing early
- - however, that happens, and sometimes yes the RB is not as good as people thought for a variety of reasons
- - and sometimes, it is different factors like coaching, scheme, playcalling. This is where it takes a critical eye.
I tend to agree with your take - our RBs are fine. I think it would *in general* be jumping the gun to be focusing on RB right now - but I would add another critical concern here; with this staff, and how they use RBs... that is a part of the equation as well. The GM needs to factor all of it in.

Now as to your question though - one of the big "values" in drafts and FA tends to be RB, at least recently. The reason Roseman jumped on Saquon that isn't as clearly stated all of the time, but it is in a precious few of his quotes, is simple; the VALUE was enormous. The amount you would pay for Saquon, and what you would get back, was off the charts. Roseman has hinted at it in a few comments.

It "could" be a similar argument here, but to see that kind of value, when we have so many other needs? It's a tough one. However, I did see method man mention, specifically, value at the RB position. It's true, the league currently devalues RBs probably to a level where you can improve in a larger jump there respective to other spots, but again, that is very scheme dependent. I would argue from what I have seen, it won't work with this team.

 

[method man]

A month ago everyone loved JCM, he has the explosion we have lacked and showed surprising power to move the pile. Teams started stacking the box, the OL is simply not providing any room to run, and now he is a back in need of an upgrade. I'm just not buying it, JCM is a fine RB IMO.

Juxtapose the reasoning you are using here with a real feature back like Breece Hall and the season he is having. Breece’s QB can’t throw the ball so he is probably facing a ton of 8 man and 9 man boxes too

 

[UK Skins]

JBell and Suh were discussing Bill during the game (Sky Sports), they both said he just hit the rookie wall. Didn't he only play one game last year? It's hardly surprising.

 

[SkinsLife]

JCM... had like 2 good games and 3 bad ones. Not sure how we can say "we are good at RB"

Eckler is old and gone after this year.. we definitely need an upgrade. We need an upgrade at pretty much every skill position outside of QB though.. so the need list is looooong.

 

[method man]

I tend to agree with you on multiple points here.
- they were high on JCM and it is unclear why he has struggled recently but he definitely has, after flashing early
- - however, that happens, and sometimes yes the RB is not as good as people thought for a variety of reasons
- - and sometimes, it is different factors like coaching, scheme, playcalling. This is where it takes a critical eye.
I tend to agree with your take - our RBs are fine. I think it would *in general* be jumping the gun to be focusing on RB right now - but I would add another critical concern here; with this staff, and how they use RBs... that is a part of the equation as well. The GM needs to factor all of it in.

Now as to your question though - one of the big "values" in drafts and FA tends to be RB, at least recently. The reason Roseman jumped on Saquon that isn't as clearly stated all of the time, but it is in a precious few of his quotes, is simple; the VALUE was enormous. The amount you would pay for Saquon, and what you would get back, was off the charts. Roseman has hinted at it in a few comments.

It "could" be a similar argument here, but to see that kind of value, when we have so many other needs? It's a tough one. However, I did see method man mention, specifically, value at the RB position. It's true, the league currently devalues RBs probably to a level where you can improve in a larger jump there respective to other spots, but again, that is very scheme dependent. I would argue from what I have seen, it won't work with this team.

Yep. The RBs who can produce as plus receivers like Hall are undervalued. Think about our recent backs. McKissic was awesome and arguably our 2nd best receiving weapon in those early Ron years. We paid him $2m a year in 2020 and 2021. That’s insane value for what he actually did

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Yep. The RBs who can produce as plus receivers like Hall are undervalued. Think about our recent backs. McKissic was awesome and arguably our 2nd best receiving weapon in those early Ron years. We paid him $2m a year in 2020 and 2021. That’s insane value for what he actually did

If you are talking about RBs who can produce as plus receivers, then I am definitely on board even with this offensive scheme, absolutely.

 

[NickyJ]

Wouldn't having an offense where passing was actually a threat help the RBs? Aside from Derrick Henry and Adrian Peterson in their primes, can any RB really keep an offense moving when the entire defense is locked in on short yardage plays? It strikes me as putting a Maserati engine in a Fiat with threadbare tires.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I tend to agree with you on multiple points here.
- they were high on JCM and it is unclear why he has struggled recently but he definitely has, after flashing early
- - however, that happens, and sometimes yes the RB is not as good as people thought for a variety of reasons
- - and sometimes, it is different factors like coaching, scheme, playcalling. This is where it takes a critical eye.
I tend to agree with your take - our RBs are fine. I think it would *in general* be jumping the gun to be focusing on RB right now - but I would add another critical concern here; with this staff, and how they use RBs... that is a part of the equation as well. The GM needs to factor all of it in.

Now as to your question though - one of the big "values" in drafts and FA tends to be RB, at least recently. The reason Roseman jumped on Saquon that isn't as clearly stated all of the time, but it is in a precious few of his quotes, is simple; the VALUE was enormous. The amount you would pay for Saquon, and what you would get back, was off the charts. Roseman has hinted at it in a few comments.

It "could" be a similar argument here, but to see that kind of value, when we have so many other needs? It's a tough one. However, I did see method man mention, specifically, value at the RB position. It's true, the league currently devalues RBs probably to a level where you can improve in a larger jump there respective to other spots, but again, that is very scheme dependent. I would argue from what I have seen, it won't work with this team.

Sure it would be great to have a back like Barkley or Gibbs. But those were already really good teams and those were luxury acquisitions. This team can't afford to pass on improving other position groups and every other position group needs an upgrade.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yep. The RBs who can produce as plus receivers like Hall are undervalued. Think about our recent backs. McKissic was awesome and arguably our 2nd best receiving weapon in those early Ron years. We paid him $2m a year in 2020 and 2021. That’s insane value for what he actually did

McNichols has been every bit as productive as McKissic was. How many times has he turned upfield and gotten a first down when that didn't seem possible when he caught the ball? Hell he did it again on Sunday on 3rd and long with a dump off.

 

[McD5]

We took away his defensive coordinator, now we need to take away personnel decisions.

Gay or DQ. One of them had better not be at the next practice.

This loser has two strikes against him already--getting Jayden hurt unnecessarily, and keeping Gay on the roster for some unknown reason. 3 strikes and he's out.

Should have been done long ago, but at least a sign of hope.

 

[method man]

McNichols has been every bit as productive as McKissic was. How many times has he turned upfield and gotten a first down when that didn't seem possible when he caught the ball? Hell he did it again on Sunday on 3rd and long with a dump off.

McNichols was a better runner and perhaps better in pass pro but McKissic was way better as a receiver, well, because he was a WR in college.

He had 80 catches for 589 yards and 32 first downs in 2020 for reference

 

[Conn]

Sure it would be great to have a back like Barkley or Gibbs. But those were already really good teams and those were luxury acquisitions. This team can't afford to pass on improving other position groups and every other position group needs an upgrade.

Lions were 9-8 the year they drafted Gibbs (and, to be fair, multiple other talented players). He’s a big part of the new look Lions and helped put them over the top with the way he can flip games on a single play. In fact the Lions were killed that year for taking multiple “luxury, low value” positions with their first three picks. Those picks—stud RB, stud MLB, stud TE—all support the backbone of their current team.

I think most people think if healthy this is around a .500 team, realistically. No reason a similarly impactful addition (along with other high impact offseason acquisitions) couldn’t help us lift off as well. Nobody is afraid of anybody but Daniels on this roster, and this year showed that without adequate weapons, nobody needs to be afraid of Daniels either.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Lions were 9-8 the year they drafted Gibbs (and, to be fair, multiple other talented players). He’s a big part of the new look Lions and helped put them over the top with the way he can flip games on a single play. In fact the Lions were killed that year for taking multiple “luxury, low value” positions with their first three picks. Those picks—stud RB, stud MLB, stud TE—all support the backbone of their current team.

I think most people think if healthy this is around a .500 team, realistically. No reason a similarly impactful addition (along with other high impact offseason acquisitions) couldn’t help us lift off as well. Nobody is afraid of anybody but Daniels on this roster, and this year showed that without adequate weapons, nobody needs to be afraid of Daniels either.

BPA in early rounds, it's real.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Lions were 9-8 the year they drafted Gibbs (and, to be fair, multiple other talented players). He’s a big part of the new look Lions and helped put them over the top with the way he can flip games on a single play. In fact the Lions were killed that year for taking multiple “luxury, low value” positions with their first three picks. Those picks—stud RB, stud MLB, stud TE—all support the backbone of their current team.

I think most people think if healthy this is around a .500 team, realistically. No reason a similarly impactful addition (along with other high impact offseason acquisitions) couldn’t help us lift off as well. Nobody is afraid of anybody but Daniels on this roster, and this year showed that without adequate weapons, nobody needs to be afraid of Daniels either.

Good response. I may have over stated where the Lions were. But they had gone from 3 bad seasons to 9-5. The rebuild was clearly in it's later stages, they had a good team at that point and at the time I thought they could afford to take a player like that when other, worse, teams could not.

As for this team I stand on the position that every position group on this team is in bigger need of a top pick then running back. I like this RB group, they are fine IMO.