Official Game Thread - Week 1 - Giants @ Commanders

[Chris]

If my Aunt had balls she’d be my Uncle. Or something like that. Play well and win a game against a good opponent and then I’ll be more accepting of the love the Giants are receiving from the ‘experts’. If they continue down the same path that they’ve earned, Dabol may not finish the season.

 

[heisenberg]

If my Aunt had balls she’d be my Uncle. Or something like that. Play well and win a game against a good opponent and then I’ll be more accepting of the love the Giants are receiving from the ‘experts’. If they continue down the same path that they’ve earned, Dabol may not finish the season.

This is exactly how i feel.

Sure there are things to like about the giants, they do have an outstanding defensive line, if your a giants fan its certainly better that they looked sharp in the pre season than disorganized but it doesn't mean jack squat until the real bullets fly.

They had plenty Of things to be potentially excited about last year for example they had an outstanding defensive line, most of the pieces they have now were there last year and they won 3 games.

Dabol is supposed to be an offensive guru and yet the last two years the offense has looked disorganized most of the time and the defense hasn't been much better.

Coaching is as important in this league as talent and so far dabol hasn't shown me shit and until he does I'll go on thinking they're a below average team.

Hell this over the top blow out all our opponents trying to win win win in the preseason reeks as much of desperation as it comes off as a coach trying to get his team prepared.

We'll find out sunday though.

 

[skinsinparadise]

And by the end of year 3 Ron had 4 more wins than dabol does.

As Logan Paulsen used to politely point out. Dabol and his coaching staff would give Ron fits in the matchups, and would outscheme him. The Giants are not perfect as far as drafting but that regime is a lot better at drafting than Ron. Granted any FO is better than Ron at drafting.

But Dexter Lawrence >>>>>>>>>> Jonathan Allen, Daron Payne. It would be comical to compare maybe the best Dt in the NFL (not saying you are) to Allen or Payne. And Burns is one of the better more consistent pass rushers in the NFL. Easily better than Sweat and Chase. If people want to argue don't believe the hype abut Abdul Carter and he busts like Chase. It's possible. Will see.

Thibodeaux is a talented pass rusher -- if some want to comp him to Sweat, that's fine. But in short, their D line is 100% better than what our over hyped D line was back then considering they actually have proven great players on that unit. We had none. And the LBs playing behind them are good -- not the garbage Ron had at LB.

And while the generational talent crap about Jaxson Dart is way premature. Heck my mother in law (a Giants fan) was telling me today the NY media thinks they got the next Jayden Daniels. All of that is overdone. But, they have a better shot that Dart is a franchse QB than we did with Howell. Dart has real QB measurables versus Howell. First round pick versus 4th round pick. And Dart probably had the best preseason for a rookie since Dac. Does that mean he succeeds? Nope. But I think he has more of a punchers chance than Howell did.

Yeah I would say with confidence. This Giants team is more talented by a least a full peg than any unit that Ron had. And yeah they have better coaches than Ron, too.

So do I think they crossed the low bar of Ron Rivera? Easily, yes. But that's not enough for Daboll to save his job, will see.

I think they go 7-10, 8-9. They technically have the hardest schedule in the NFL. I think to have a shot at a decent season they need to sweep the first two games -- against Washington-Dallas. To their credit, they were all in as to using the preseason to prepare and are conscious of needing a hot start. And although the swagger around that team is off putting, in their defense they likely might need it to pull off the upsets.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I am guessing some here think:

A. The Jaxson Dart hype is nonsense. They are still in QB purgatory. Nothing different from last year.

B. Russell Wilson isn't much of an upgrade over Daniel Jones

C. Drafting Abdul Carter won't move the needle much as to their D line.

I sort of get it from the pre-Daniels era here. We just assume the next young QB, even first rounders, are at best lottery tickets who are more likely to fail. Adding Abdul Carter to a formidable D line isn't going to be much different than adding Chase Young to our D line back then. And all journeyman QBs are basically the same -- Fitz, Keenum, Alex, on and on and on.

So I get that. The idea that Daboll is stuck in 2024 -- nothing moved the needle in 2025. Now, their fans, some in the local media, some in the national media believe its changed this year.

For me personally, I don't know. I suspect that A, B, C, all end up being pluses for NY where that team is indeed better than before but not sure how dramatically. My main hope is Dart crashes and his hype isn't justified. As to the comps of Abdul Carter to Parsons. I don't know.

But I don't discount every "dream" D line just because ours didn't work. Some said ours didn't work because the sum of its parts didn't equal the individual. But I think that point is overstated considering these guys as individuals are just decent to good players. We had no superstars on that unit. The superstar vibe was just based on the hype of them being drafted high. There are teams with legit strong D lines.

As far as Russell Wilson versus Jones. Wilson isn't taking them to the playoffs IMO. But he's a clear upgrade especially as to avoiding turnovers and throwing a good deep ball.

As I mentioned what I suspect happens for NY is they get off to a decent start but then fade. I do think they need to beat either Washington or Dallas otherwise their season fades fast unless they throw Dart out there and he ends up as good as some think he is.

 

[Conn]

I just need to see Daboll be a good HC before I’ll believe it. He tried to build an all-star staff year 1 who had never worked together, and then there was tons of drama because he couldn’t get along with some of his staff and kept yanking play-calling duties around. Very amateurish. Things got more normal over time, but normal for a mediocre-to-bad franchise. I still have no evidence he’s a good HC, although he can definitely scheme up some plays on offense at times, even with the stone around his neck that was Daniel Jones (who had a mediocre season at just the wrong time for their franchise and got paid—mostly for beating up on us).

So they’ve certainly got some talent. I’ve seen modern day Russ implode as often as be impactful, he’s hit or miss. Dart has potential but if they get him on the field too soon, they could squander it. Their defense can be elite and still not stop our offense, that wouldn’t be a surprising outcome.

I think it’ll be a tough game because we just haven’t shown the ability to wallop a worse divisional foe yet, and week 1 is weird. I’m definitely not overconfident. I’ve got the jitters and fear the worst on reflex.

But the Daboll-coached Giants have not yet been a good team, and without Barkley have not shown the ability to score points. They’ve got some of that old Giants arrogance towards us, earned by their SB-winning teams and passed down through the locker room for decades now at this point, even though we’re actually almost .500 with them in recent years, now. So they’ll have the unearned confidence and the chip on their shoulders.

But the reality is that Daboll is on the hot seat, playoffs or Dart obviously developing are the only things that can realistically save him. They put up a confident, stiff and steely front but that can be shattered by a real team who also now expects to win each week. Our locker room doesn’t know any differently since Daniels arrived. I guarantee our guys, right or wrong, feel they are coming out of preseason cold, they think they know what they are and are capable of.

I have no idea what happens, and also lean pessimistic just due to habit. But the Daboll Giants have done nothing yet over the years and riding that offseason/preseason hype into the regular season with your back straight and leading with your chin held high can get you knocked the fuck out by a team that has actually experienced some winning more recently, and actually has a seemingly good coaching staff, and actually has a franchise QB and belief in his growing legend.

Edit: didn’t expect this to get so long when I started, I’m gonna move it into the appropriate Giants game thread

 

[skinsinparadise]

I just need to see Daboll be a good HC before I’ll believe it. He tried to build an all-star staff year 1 who had never worked together, and then there was tons of drama because he couldn’t get along with some of his staff and kept yanking play-calling duties around. Very amateurish. Things got more normal over time, but normal for a mediocre-to-bad franchise. I still have no evidence he’s a good HC, although he can definitely scheme up some plays on offense at times, even with the stone around his neck that was Daniel Jones (who had a mediocre season at just the wrong time for their franchise and got paid—mostly for beating up on us).

So they’ve certainly got some talent. I’ve seen modern day Russ implode as often as be impactful, he’s hit or miss. Dart has potential but if they get him on the field too soon, they could squander it. Their defense can be elite and still not stop our offense, that wouldn’t be a surprising outcome.

I think it’ll be a tough game because we just haven’t shown the ability to wallop a worse divisional foe yet, and week 1 is weird. I’m definitely not overconfident. I’ve got the jitters and fear the worst on reflex.

But the Daboll-coached Giants have not yet been a good team, and without Barkley have not shown the ability to score points. They’ve got some of that old Giants arrogance towards us, earned by their SB-winning teams and passed down through the locker room for decades now at this point, even though we’re actually almost .500 with them in recent years, now. So they’ll have the unearned confidence and the chip on their shoulders.

But the reality is that Daboll is on the hot seat, playoffs or Dart obviously developing are the only things that can realistically save him. They put up a confident, stiff and steely front but that can be shattered by a real team who also now expects to win each week. Our locker room doesn’t know any differently since Daniels arrived. I guarantee our guys, right or wrong, feel they are coming out of preseason cold, they think they know what they are and are capable of.

I have no idea what happens, and also lean pessimistic just due to habit. But the Daboll Giants have done nothing yet over the years and riding that offseason/preseason hype into the regular season with your back straight and leading with your chin held high can get you knocked the fuck out by a team that has actually experienced some winning more recently, and actually has a seemingly good coaching staff, and actually has a franchise QB and belief in his growing legend.

I think what the Giants have going for them is they got two superstars. Nabers and Dexter Lawrence. As far as hope for the future, what if Abdul Carter loves up to his billing? if so they have three superstars.

Brian Burns isn't quite a superstar but he's what some of us hoped Sweat would be, one of the best pass rushers even if not elite.

Not too many teams have two superstars on their D line so if Carter emerges like that, the odds that their D line is great versus the paper tiger that Ron D lines were is almost a lock considering they got other good players, too.

From Dabol's point of view, I think basically the off season comes down to two things: Is Carter the superstar that some think is? And is Dart even a good QB -- ala a Bo Nix who some have compared him, too. If both things happen, Dabol is out of the woods in all likelihood.

While there seems to be more optimism than not that the Giants will hit on both first rounders -- Carter and Dart. Personally I don't know. But I am not the opposite extreme either where I dismiss it as a long shot. Based purely on the preseason, I get their optimism that both things happen. I know as Commanders fans we are cynics about first rounders changing the franchse (pre-Jayden). I just don't know. But if I were a Giants fan, I'd be hyped with some hope.

As far as Dabol as a coach, reading about him, he has a good reputation as for being an offensive mind. But as a head coach, I've read he's impatient and hot headed.

 

[Always Commander Never Captain]

Daboll doesn't understand why the Tush Push works for the Eagles, why it didn't work for him, and doesn't think practicing it is useful at all.

That should tell you he's not a good coach.

Agree that current Giants DL is extremely talented, more than the Eagles DL. But who is the Giants other defensive tackle? Might not matter on passing downs with all the premier edge rushers they can move around.

They've got Nabers who has real potential to be the best WR in football. But after that? The talent kind of drops off. Some good players, but guys you can find on every NFL team. Secondary is an issue, TE room is a questionmark and also hurt, other WRs not named Nabers are an issue. RB room could be solid, but that's par with us. They have only one good LB (I think?).

The roster isn't bad, but it's not good either. It's dinged by poor coaching and QB play. I know Dart could be good down the road. But he's not playing Week 1. The washed up Russell Wilson is.

 

[Conn]

I think what the Giants have going for them is they got two superstars. Nabers and Dexter Lawrence. As far as hope for the future, what if Abdul Carter loves up to his billing? if so they have three superstars.

Brian Burns isn't quite a superstar but he's what some of us hoped Sweat would be, one of the best pass rushers even if not elite.

Not too many teams have two superstars on their D line so if Carter emerges like that, the odds that their D line is great versus the paper tiger that Ron D lines were is almost a lock considering they got other good players, too.

From Dabol's point of view, I think basically the off season comes down to two things: Is Carter the superstar that some think is? And is Dart even a good QB -- ala a Bo Nix who some have compared him, too. If both things happen, Dabol is out of the woods in all likelihood.

While there seems to be more optimism than not that the Giants will hit on both first rounders -- Carter and Dart. Personally I don't know. But I am not the opposite extreme either where I dismiss it as a long shot. Based purely on the preseason, I get their optimism that both things happen. I know as Commanders fans we are cynics about first rounders changing the franchse (pre-Jayden). I just don't know. But if I were a Giants fan, I'd be hyped with some hope.

As far as Dabol as a coach, reading about him, he has a good reputation as for being an offensive mind. But as a head coach, I've read he's impatient and hot headed.

I think they could hit on Carter and Dart and still end up with a regime change if it happens too slowly or they don’t win games. In fact, if they continue to lose a lot but Dart starts to look like the real deal later in the season, I could see that giving even more urgency to the idea of finding the right coach for him to grow with, if the rest of the outcomes across the season scream classic Daboll and he starts losing the locker room. They probably do have an elite DL, much better than anything Rivera ever built. I’m just skeptical it will win them games until I see it. They’ve rebuilt their confidence (and always have confidence re: playing Washington) but that can go sideways quickly if the players have no reason to believe after three years of getting worse and worse.

All of that could be true, and yet they could still beat us week 1 if we don’t bring our A game though. I agree with you on that.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Daboll doesn't understand why the Tush Push works for the Eagles, why it didn't work for him, and doesn't think practicing it is useful at all.

That should tell you he's not a good coach.

Agree that current Giants DL is extremely talented, more than the Eagles DL. But who is the Giants other defensive tackle? Might not matter on passing downs with all the premier edge rushers they can move around.

They've got Nabers who has real potential to be the best WR in football. But after that? The talent kind of drops off. Some good players, but guys you can find on every NFL team. Secondary is an issue, TE room is a questionmark and also hurt, other WRs not named Nabers are an issue. RB room could be solid, but that's par with us. They have only one good LB (I think?).

The roster isn't bad, but it's not good either. It's dinged by poor coaching and QB play. I know Dart could be good down the road. But he's not playing Week 1. The washed up Russell Wilson is.

Slayton isn't bad as a #2, sort of a rich man's Dyami.

Their LBs are good. Their safeties have bigger reps than ours. It's a better defense than ours on paper.

Their backs have potential, granted lol I was a Skattebo guy before the draft so am biased.

I would trade our roster for their defensive roster given a chance in a blink of an eye.

Their issue remains the O line.

 

[Hail Raiser]

I would trade our rosters for their defensive roster given a chance in a blink of an eye.

Their issue remains the O line.

I'd trade lines, but our back 7 could be better

 

[skinsinparadise]

I think they could hit on Carter and Dart and still end up with a regime change if it happens too slowly or they don’t win games. In fact, if they continue to lose a lot but Dart starts to look like the real deal later in the season, I could see that giving even more urgency to the idea of finding the right coach for him to grow with, if the rest of the outcomes across the season scream classic Daboll and he starts losing the locker room. They probably do have an elite DL, much better than anything Rivera ever built. I’m just skeptical it will win them games until I see it. They’ve rebuilt their confidence (and always have confidence re: playing Washington) but that can go sideways quickly if the players have no reason to believe after three years of getting worse and worse.

All of that could be true, and yet they could still beat us week 1 if we don’t bring our A game though. I agree with you on that.

I think the 7-9 Rivera season is a good one to the Giants as I've mentioned. That was the peak play of Ron's D line -- which wasn't as talented or as good as the current Giants D line. A team that is feisty and can beat almost any team and conversely lose to almost any team. Mediocre overall -- ups and downs.

Dabol isn't a good HC I agree. Also though reading about him, he's a bright dude. This isn't like some boob like Zorn. I think he's one of those classic -- better coordinators than head coaches. The Giants schedule is a bear.

So they can play mediocre ball and still have a bad record. And I get the preseason approach of going all out to hopefully have a good early season. They can beat Washington and Dallas. Dallas has owned them but they might be different without Parsons. But I can see their coaching staff feeling like their whole season is on the line early and they need to get off to a hot start.

Do I guess they get to that hot start? Yeah. I think they beat either Washington or Dallas, probably Washington. I am skeptical that they sweep those first two games. But it almost feels like they are putting so many eggs in the basket of starting hot that they lose steam even if they get off to that hot start.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I'd trade lines, but our back 7 could be better

Even though Quan was my guy before the draft, I'd want to see him emerge like this coaching staff expects him too. Otherwise i'd take Holland-Nubin over Martin-Harris.

I'd take our LBS by a peg. Though I do like the Giants LBS.

I like our CBs over theirs. But I want to see it play out. Lattimore sucked last year and even when he played better in recent years, he's been a walking injury. Love what I read about Amos this off season but he's still a rookie, we need to see it play out.

Sainristill is the more hyped player as to draft pedigree. But their rookie slot CB Dru Phillips was better than Sainristill. He was quietly an emerging star.

Overall, it would be a super easy call for me to take their defensive talent over ours, its not close IMO. Now their O line, I would hate.

 

[skinsinparadise]

 

[skinsfan4128]

Good luck with that. Pretty sure JD5 has something to say about that. So love when Vagiants get all full of themselves. Makes the victory that much sweeter. Go Skins!

HTTR!

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I can't help it

 

[DWinzit]

I just need to see Daboll be a good HC before I’ll believe it. He tried to build an all-star staff year 1 who had never worked together, and then there was tons of drama because he couldn’t get along with some of his staff and kept yanking play-calling duties around. Very amateurish. Things got more normal over time, but normal for a mediocre-to-bad franchise. I still have no evidence he’s a good HC, although he can definitely scheme up some plays on offense at times, even with the stone around his neck that was Daniel Jones (who had a mediocre season at just the wrong time for their franchise and got paid—mostly for beating up on us).

So they’ve certainly got some talent. I’ve seen modern day Russ implode as often as be impactful, he’s hit or miss. Dart has potential but if they get him on the field too soon, they could squander it. Their defense can be elite and still not stop our offense, that wouldn’t be a surprising outcome.

I think it’ll be a tough game because we just haven’t shown the ability to wallop a worse divisional foe yet, and week 1 is weird. I’m definitely not overconfident. I’ve got the jitters and fear the worst on reflex.

But the Daboll-coached Giants have not yet been a good team, and without Barkley have not shown the ability to score points. They’ve got some of that old Giants arrogance towards us, earned by their SB-winning teams and passed down through the locker room for decades now at this point, even though we’re actually almost .500 with them in recent years, now. So they’ll have the unearned confidence and the chip on their shoulders.

But the reality is that Daboll is on the hot seat, playoffs or Dart obviously developing are the only things that can realistically save him. They put up a confident, stiff and steely front but that can be shattered by a real team who also now expects to win each week. Our locker room doesn’t know any differently since Daniels arrived. I guarantee our guys, right or wrong, feel they are coming out of preseason cold, they think they know what they are and are capable of.

I have no idea what happens, and also lean pessimistic just due to habit. But the Daboll Giants have done nothing yet over the years and riding that offseason/preseason hype into the regular season with your back straight and leading with your chin held high can get you knocked the fuck out by a team that has actually experienced some winning more recently, and actually has a seemingly good coaching staff, and actually has a franchise QB and belief in his growing legend.

Edit: didn’t expect this to get so long when I started, I’m gonna move it into the appropriate Giants game thread

If the Giants have a ho hum season I can see their GM Joe Schoen moving from Daboll. He has given Daboll all the tools (they have of talent on that roster) but he can't put things together. It's definitely Dabolls offense not Kafka's. I can't wait to see that twit sent packing and know the Commanders helped pack his bags!

 

[skinsinparadise]

If the Giants have a ho hum season I can see their GM Joe Schoen moving from Daboll. He has given Daboll all the tools (they have of talent on that roster) but he can't put things together. It's definitely Dabolls offense not Kafka's. I can't wait to see that twit sent packing and know the Commanders helped pack his bags!

Yeah Schoen has been sneaky decent of a drafter in recent years. He's the better of the two hires from Buffalo IMO.

 

[DWinzit]

Yeah Schoen has been sneaky decent of a drafter in recent years. He's the better of the two hires from Buffalo IMO.

Yes and many thought it was going to be the opposite. If Daboll were really that much of an "offensive guru" his offenses would have been more dynamic by now.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Maybe he is but Wilson has had plenty of big time Wrs. I was watching the PFF preview of the game, Sikemma thinks it will be a grind but Washington pulls off a close game and said he'd pick the Giants if they were playing in NY. But the point they made is similar to mine about this game which is the Giants will likely go deep and do so often, try to beat Washington via the deep play.

 

[skinsinparadise]

Yes and many thought it was going to be the opposite. If Daboll were really that much of an "offensive guru" his offenses would have been more dynamic by now.

Dabol, was given a lot of credit for developing Josh Allen, Allen was erratic accuracy wise coming out of college. And in year 1, he seemed to fix Daniel Jones and hence Jones got the big contract and made the playoffs and even won a game in the playoffs.

Then the wheels fell off with Jones. Partly because of injury and partly because Jones resorted back to who he is.

I was at the game when Devito carved up Rvera's team. And Devito isn't talented to say the least.

Logan Paulsen would in his own polite way imply that Dabol was too much (my language not his) for Del Rio to handle scheme wise, when he mapped out why this team struggled against them.

So in short, if Dabol went back to running an offense, he might not be bad at it. Sort of like Dan Quinn here, he's not per se always running that unit even though its his niche. He's had other offensive coordinators. He's switched on and off as far as running it.

As I pointed out, I don't feel that Whitt coordinated that hot of a defense last year but I don't put that on Quinn. When you are running a team, its hard to go full on to coordinating too, something has to give -- see Kingsbury in Arizona versus here.