(New Poll) The Washington Commanders Brand 2.0: Beer Drinkers and Hail Raisers

[Chris]

Po-tae-toe, po-tah-toe. 😉

 

[HOF44]

Apparently it was leaked out by accident or something and wasn’t official. Although it looked to me like the tweet came from the commanders, so clearly, they were at least toying with the idea.

Even so a good chunk of change was used to make that. Why go there if you want to stop speculation.

 

[HTTR]

Even so a good chunk of change was used to make that. Why go there if you want to stop speculation.

Agreed, but I’m not sure they want to stop the speculation. I think they may be testing the waters. Like I keep saying, they have the ability to put this all to bed with one statement and they haven’t done that. Your guess is as good as mine as to why that is.

 

[AngryChuckT]

Funny people are now saying the logo was never a problem. I agree of course that the name (and Snyder’s other scandals) exacerbated the negative attention the entire brand was getting, but the logo was for sure a focus of many groups and people. I can’t be the only one who remembers the think pieces and angry commotion around the stereotypical “noble warrior savage” imagery of the logo (regardless of who designed it decades ago, standards and thinking on things change). That was the same issue with the spear (in a NA context), that many tribes didn’t appreciate the stereotypical “warrior” imagery representing their cultures. “My culture is not your mascot”, nobody remembers that? It wasn’t just the name.

I realize this was a very loud minority of people protesting this stuff back then. But I’m not going to pretend the logo was never controversial during those years of endless scandal and name change controversy. The Wetzel logo absolutely was wrapped up in all of it, it doesn’t matter that he was Native American. Many modern Native groups didn’t want to be associated with the logo, enough to make a lot of noise about it no matter how many signatures you could get arguing otherwise.

Edit: some excellent posts on the previous page about this, I have to say I agree with you Boone + PK. It’s over. Inviting that off-field distraction back into the fold isn’t worth any level of happiness for the fans who care, I hate to say. Chalk it up as the price to lose Snyder, whatever you have to do to mentally move past it. But backtracking now even if we COULD technically do it would just ruin everything all over again. It’s never going to be the same, so it may as well never be the same while moving in a positive direction.

This is facts. Deep down I would love to be able to have the most beautiful logo in sports history back on helmets a few times a season, but there is a very vocal - I believe minority- but still vocal groups of people reject any NA imagery regardless of who designed and and why it was designed. Unfortunately, ours was intertwined with a name that was objectionable to a larger group of people. The name will always be associated with the logo.

Facts matter not in this day and age. A story to illustrate:

Walking down the sidewalk toward AT&T Stadium for Cowboys/Skins in 2016. Unwittingly ended up on the protestors side. Not a huge group, but very vocal. I was yelled at. My wife was yelled at. When they started yelling at my 2 and 4 year old is when I stopped and engaged. I did it take their attention off my kids who my wife was shuffling through gauntlet quickly because she couldn't cross the street because of the traffic. (One big guy was the main culprit of the group who saw no problem yelling at toddlers. If I had one wish in life is to catch that SOB outside of a group before I die. But I digress.)

I engaged with one lady and we ended up having a civil conversation as most of the other members of the group started listening in. What struck me was how little the woman knew about our Team traditions. She was "afraid I would raise my kids to do the tomahawk chop" among other rituals unrelated to our franchise. As we ended the conversation, we hugged. I can't remember who hugged who first, but it was a good human moment. (I looked up and saw big guy sneering.)

It hit me later. Those protestors knew next to nothing about the Washington Redskins other than the name and the logo. There would be no reasoning them out of their position. No facts about the NA history of the logo. No distinctions between the Braves, Chiefs, or Seminoles, and the Skins. For them NA imagery was offensive no matter the context. That is also the day I knew the name would have to change and started advocating for some sort of deal with a tribe like the Navajo in an effort to save the logo. Alas, the WOSH was never forward thinking and out of touch with reality as usual. 4.5 years later we lost it all.

I want the logo on the helmet back once in awhile, but I don't see how you do it in this day and age.

 

[Boone]

Thanks Boone. Yeah, I guess it did although I didn’t mean to imply that you were being disrespectful, so sorry if it came across that way. Just don’t really agree that we need let it go when ownership has been strangely silent on the matter. It’s been well over a year since they said Redskins was dead, and I let that part of it go at that point. Like you, I moved on to wanting a new name such as Redwolves that was not given to us by Snyder. Totally understand that many fans think it’s the same thing with the name and the logo, but obviously the owners do not because they are treating it differently.

Look - I’m a member like everyone else and like most of us I could do better at times. What I didn’t do a good job of communicating was that I’m talking to myself along with other fans. I have struggled but for me it’s time to let it go and move on. I agree everyone gets to figure out their own timetable. I hope everyone eventually gets there because if they don’t I think they are going to miss a hell of a ride.

 

[Conn]

Agreed, but I’m not sure they want to stop the speculation. I think they may be testing the waters. Like I keep saying, they have the ability to put this all to bed with one statement and they haven’t done that. Your guess is as good as mine as to why that is.

I honestly don’t think it’s that deep. When Harris said we’re staying the Commanders and the old name isn’t coming back, I doubt he had someone in his ear from a focus group reminding him he also needed to specify that in addition, the logo is not coming back. If you aren’t doing fandom mental gymnastics, the name and logo are intertwined as one brand for most people, imo.

They aren’t demonizing the old logo, and they made a nice tribute to it in the stadium as part of settling that silly lawsuit from the Wetzel family. I really don’t think they realize that some fans need to hear the words that it’s not coming back on the field, though. Multi-billion dollar corporations don’t generally comment on hypothetical (or non-existent) future marketing strategies and they said we’re staying the Commanders…I honestly think they probably didn’t realize they needed to be more specific. This is kind of a unique (or at least rare) situation.

But the fan engagement clickbait industrial complex online is very productive, so they probably will need to at some point just to silence people like Florio doing “I’m just asking questions!” type journalism.

 

[HTTR]

I honestly don’t think it’s that deep. When Harris said we’re staying the Commanders and the old name isn’t coming back, I doubt he had someone in his ear from a focus group reminding him he also needed to specify that in addition, the logo is not coming back. If you aren’t doing fandom mental gymnastics, the name and logo are intertwined as one brand for most people, imo.

They aren’t demonizing the old logo, and they made a nice tribute to it in the stadium as part of settling that silly lawsuit from the Wetzel family. I really don’t think they realize that some fans need to hear the words that it’s not coming back on the field, though. Multi-billion dollar corporations don’t generally comment on hypothetical (or non-existent) future marketing strategies and they said we’re staying the Commanders…I honestly think they probably didn’t realize they needed to be more specific. This is kind of a unique (or at least rare) situation.

But the fan engagement clickbait industrial complex online is very productive, so they probably will need to at some point just to silence people like Florio doing “I’m just asking questions!” type journalism.

Can’t agree with you there, they are plenty smart enough to recognize there’s a difference for many fans, including a good number of posters right here on this site. The sticking with commanders announcement to me was more about not moving on to new name than it was not going back to the old name (which they had already put to bed sometime ago). I believe they anticipated getting some grief about the logo and that’s why they put out the blacked out picture where you could see the W a week advance of unveiling the new uniform. I think they were hoping to keep people from getting their hopes up, even though some of us may have anyway 😁
Again, you may be right, and I may be crazy, but regardless I think ownership owes it to us to make a statement on the logo once and for all.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Careful, I’ve been called delusional on this thread for suggesting the old logo could someday be used on a throwback. And the fact that they’re not taking this opportunity to do it is admittedly another nail in the coffin for it. But until Josh Harris actually comes out and says it like he eventually did with keeping the C name, there’s always a chance. As it stands, there is evidence that they’ve left the door slightly cracked open. We’ve seen them testing the waters by using the logo at the stadium and in their marketing—basically making sure the logo doesn’t get erased completely or deemed as offensive. Again, I realize it’s at best a longshot (and even more so now) but it’s a bit unfair to say it’s a delusional opinion. I guess it bothers people that some fans want to keep hope alive and if so they should be calling for Josh Harris to put a stop to the speculation, which he could easily do, but at this point has chosen not to. If/when he does, that’s when I’ll give up on it.

I’d like to remind everybody that it was far from over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!

Hey, all is good, I’ve been called delusional before

To be honest, part of the reason I still feel we could see the logo, is because of HOW it went down. I was, and still am, a firm believer that the name change was a product of the NFL. It was orchestrated behind the scenes because they knew that was the first domino to fall if they really wanted to convince Snyder to sell. That Snyder would be much more willing to part with the franchise if it wasn’t the Redskins anymore. I don’t think it was a coincidence that a lot of the people in and around the facility had connections with the NFL office. They needed to wash out everything and make Snyder feel like it wasn’t the team he owned before.

It wouldn’t shock me if the NFL actually would endorse the original imagery, because up until the last ‘push’ that ultimately was the one that got Snyder out, the NFL was always vocally supportive of the name and defended it. This last time? Total silence. Nike refusing to produce Redskins uniforms doesn’t happen without the NFL being a part of that decision. The NFL has the power to tell Nike what to do, and what not to do. Threaten to pull them as the producer of the gear and they’ll listen. A lot of the things that went down leads me to believe the NFL was either behind it, or at a minimum signing off on all of it.

I understand the very valid points that there was protesting for year surrounding not only the name, but the original logo, but to the point above, a lot of that was made by people who have very little actual understanding of the history and origins of the Wetzel logo and surrounding pride it still brings a large group of Native Americans. This media team just put together one hell of a video compilation with Darrell Green talking about the importance of RFK. I’m sure there is ample opportunity of Native American groups out there that would be more than willing to stand behind and record a similar propaganda video detailing the history of it not only on our helmets, but on HS football teams within their own reservations. Along with that the team can provide the NA community in some way with a certain amount of the proceeds that come from the gear fans purchase that have that logo on it.

I will also say very openly that maybe i am delusional in thinking this, and I’m more just leaning on hope… I get it.

 

[RedWolf]

Time for commercial break?

 

[HOF44]

you may be right, and I may be crazy, but regardless I think ownership owes it to us to make a statement on the logo once and for all.

your just the kind of lunatic we’re looking for!!

 

[Spearfeather]

Nobody knows exactly what could be going on behind the scenes. If the team ever was going to use the logo again even in a limited way, they would most likely keep quiet about it until they were going to do it.
Ryan Wetzel put out a tweet maybe six or seven months ago, saying the family and the team were partnering on a couple things, and the logo was part of the discussion, and this was after the team had already begun showing the logo on alumni merchandise, but dont get me wrong, I'm not saying the logo is coming back.
The Chiefs have been able to do something we're either unable or unwilling to do, and they're not going anywhere, anytime soon.

I am interested to see what the team does with their 100th anniversary.

 

[Commander PK]

And the Blackhawks, the Seminoles, and the Braves. And I'm in Braves country.

ALL means ALL. It ended up being exclusive to just our team and the Cleveland baseball team (ain't typin' that stupid name either).

I for one do believe all Native American imagery in sports will be gone in time. I think with us, (and to a lesser degree Cleveland), we were the obvious low-hanging fruit ripe for the picking. We had the perfect storm, at the perfect time, to cause this to happen when it did. The moment the financial bottom line started being hurt It was all but over.

Why the temperature has dropped so significantly after the Redskins and Indians were gone…I don’t know. Maybe the collective outrage over the fact these teams DID actually change, and the shock and anger from many who were just not as engaged with the issue as many of us were have given them pause. I think many people just believed that it would never happen, and then when it did happen they were caught completely off guard. There was certainly a loud backlash to the change.

For me, I take solace in the fact that WE won’t ever have to go through this again and for us, the controversy is over.

As I have said I 100% prefer it that way.

 

[HailYeah]

Alternates look great. I’m more of a burgundy top kind of man myself, but I appreciate the throwback. Logos still booty. Coming from someone who served in the Army, the whole military stylized W is so bad. I hope that gets changed soon.

 

[bird_1972]

I hate ... like, really hate the "W" ....

Would almost rather no logo than the "W". Or at least go back to the number on the side of the helmets. I actually really liked the old school feel to that.

 

[Spearfeather]

Commanders' players seem to approve of new uniforms

Commanders' players seem to approve of new uniforms

Some Washington Commanders' player seem to approve of the "new" old look.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[ArtMonkWasMyHero]

Sheehan doesn't think the name is coming back, but he thinks the logo may come back at some point.

Like others here, I think he's right: The logo was never the issue. So just bring it back as a throwback. The Titans wear Oilers throwbacks, but don't call themselves the Oilers on those days...we should be able to do the same thing.

I spent years in the trenches debating the Redskins name and image with various people who were just aghast. I found there were several trains of thought or levels if you will going on at the same time.

Some thought just the name itself should be verboten as it was akin to the N word. Ludicrous as even GPM would never have named a team with the N word or similar. They didn't care.

Some told me the image itself was racist- akin to Aunt Jemimah or minstrel images. I pointed out that the image was designed by a Native American at the behest of a Native American. I usually received a dismissive wave in response.

And then there is the camp that believes ALL Native American images are not appropriate for mascots. I generally deferred to the polls for that and pointed out that if people are naming something after you, it is because they think you are cool. A snarl and invective was the usual response. Braves, Blackhawks, and Chiefs: You have been warned.

I doubt we could get away with using the NA logo. We surrendered to pressure. Surrendering means you agree with the opposition. We cannot have it both ways.

If Harris is too timid to find a better name than Commanders, I doubt he is going to pull the NA helmet out.

I know I am a broken record, but I just cannot fathom why they did not go with RedSOMETHINGorANOTHER and revive the Lombardi era R. It solves every single issue out there. Shuts the malcontents up and preserves nearly all our legacy. All they had to do was change half a word and bring back a logo from the past that was cool. I simply do not understand it and I guess I never will. Perhaps its time I reported for Carousel.

 

[Boone]

I’m probably one of the few who get that reference Logan

 

[tomwvr]

I think you are describing a tiny minority of fans. I think the vast majority of fans understand the name is never coming back and that it’s highly likely that’s also the case for the logo.

I hate the name but am 100 percent aware the name is not coming back. But dont show the spear and talk throwbacks…

 

[HTTR]

I spent years in the trenches debating the Redskins name and image with various people who were just aghast. I found there were several trains of thought or levels if you will going on at the same time.

Some thought just the name itself should be verboten as it was akin to the N word. Ludicrous as even GPM would never have named a team with the N word or similar. They didn't care.

Some told me the image itself was racist- akin to Aunt Jemimah or minstrel images. I pointed out that the image was designed by a Native American at the behest of a Native American. I usually received a dismissive wave in response.

And then there is the camp that believes ALL Native American images are not appropriate for mascots. I generally deferred to the polls for that and pointed out that if people are naming something after you, it is because they think you are cool. A snarl and invective was the usual response. Braves, Blackhawks, and Chiefs: You have been warned.

I doubt we could get away with using the NA logo. We surrendered to pressure. Surrendering means you agree with the opposition. We cannot have it both ways.

If Harris is too timid to find a better name than Commanders, I doubt he is going to pull the NA helmet yep.out.

I know I am a broken record, but I just cannot fathom why they did not go with RedSOMETHINGorANOTHER and revive the Lombardi era R. It solves every single issue out there. Shuts the malcontents up and preserves nearly all our legacy. All they had to do was change half a word and bring back a logo from the past that was cool. I simply do not understand it and I guess I never will. Perhaps its time I reported for Carousel.

Yep. Great post. Hail to the Redwolves!

 

[Spearfeather]

Listening to the Al Galdi podcast from a couple days ago, when he was talking about the new uniforms:

Galdi mentioned Darren Thacker who he follows on " X ". Thacker is the Chief of Staff for Steve Daines. Daines is the Montana senator that was working with the Wetzel family and the team to honor Wetzel and the logo, before he would vote in favor of the federal bill regarding the RFK site.
He mentioned two post by Thacker from June of this year ( I'm not signed onto X and can't find those particular post ) where Thacker said that 10 - 12 NFL sponsors were presented with the story of Wetzel and the logo, and that none of them ( including FedEx ) expressed concern over the logo being used on throwback uniforms, or NFL licensed merchandise.

Make of it what you will.