Haynesworth inactive

[Rymanofthenorth]

My post, not rant, was based on your statement that he came here partly to be used effectively. Your statement I quoted tends to give the impression he wasn't effective in TN.

I completely understand saying the right thing opposed to being honest is important when dealing with the media. It doesn't fly when dealing with the coaching staff.... which he clearly wasn't honest in agreeing to take the roster bonus and doing what he was asked, which he hasn't. It's not the dollars, it's the complete lack of character... integrity... me first attitude that is what most have the beef about.

I also know that money isn't a motivator for many, I've seen it first hand in business far too many times. But, from what I've seen in 1 + seasons, nothing is a motivator for Alberto. Not even his own pride has gotten him moving in the right direction.

This team needed that force to be reckoned with, and we've gotten doodly squat. Instead we got a spoiled child in an extra large package. If he had half the heart that guys like Fletcher and Daniels have, he'd be a pro bowler every year.

a lot of your opinion is based on a fallacy, the 21 million was alberts when he signed the contract, it was not something that should have been used in a negotiation.

 

[Miles Monroe]

And this why I lay this, almost entirely, at Shanny's feet.

He through a few logs on the fire, at the beginning, that were not necessary. Now, apparently, the the fire is out of control, and it's too late to do anything about it now.

Shut him down, deal with it in Feb/March

I place very little of this on Shanny actually. He has a vision, and a way of managing his team that has worked in the past. It doesn't matter weather you make the vet minimum or 100 million, you play by his rules or you don't play. It's a bit like the military... no special treatment. Either you can work within the system, or you're one of the non hackers, and you get weeded out.

I like the fire analogy... and when you have a big brush fire (Alberto), you cut a fire break, and set backfires, an watch it consume itself. While the fire has jumped the break a few times, it's running out of fuel..... Now is the time to come in with the final water drop. You should never let a fire smolder too long, as it can always rekindle.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

no...what's laughable is your transparent wealth envy. your very language belies what a lowlife piece of FOD you are...riven by cliches and your own personal hatreds.

Personal insults are not called for, fansince.

Wealth envy? Of course I'm envious. I sure wish I could make $21M doing what I do, and then tell my bosses to stuff it, be a terrible employee, and KEEP the money.

EDIT: Sorry Ryman.

 

[Miles Monroe]

a lot of your opinion is based on a fallacy, the 21 million was alberts when he signed the contract, it was not something that should have been used in a negotiation.

You're right, in that he had it coming no matter what. But had he had been honest and said he wanted out then and there, he would have gotten his money, and ties would have been severed instead of him being able to disrupt what the coaches were trying to do for the entire season.

He lied.... to Shanny and to Coslet saying he looked forward to being in the system Coslet outlined to him. He led the coaches to believe he could be counted on, and he stuck it to them, and his teammates.

 

[Chris]

Personal insults are not called for, Ryman. I don't believe I insulted you once, except saying you were wrong. Unless you consider being called a Fat Albert brown-noser is an insult...

Definitely uncalled for. But, it was fansince not Ryman.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

No lanky you are completely wrong, your post is so filled with misinformation and half truth that you obviously dont have even an inkling of whats gone on here, given that you have shown yourself capable of thought in other threads im going to assume you just bought into the media driven BS on this.

Media-driven BS? Please tell me what part of my post is factually inaccurate.

the problem that you and about 80% of the fan base and even a large percentage of coaches have is that just because someone physically meets the prereqs to be a nosetackle or OLB or whatever, DOESNT MEAN THEY CAN PLAY THE POSITION. pHYSICALLY AH LOOKS LIKE A PROTOTYPE NT BUT HIS SKILLSET IS A DIRECT OPPOSITE OF WHAT A NT DOES ON A DOWN BY DOWN BASIS.

No need to shout - I never once said any of this. I simply said he should play where expected to play, especially when he says he's on board to collect a $21M bonus. Whether or not he's being misused is another topic altogether, and I don't necessarily disagree. Doesn't mean he is justified in his actions.

The easiest way for me to explain this is to use an offencive comparison, you are the coach, you have antonio gates and tony gonzales at TE, rather than throwing to them you decide that both of them are good size TEs so they will now become primarily blockers. its the same thing as asking a penetrating disrutpter type to set the edge or hold the POA rather than doing what he does best. hes still a DT but now he is doing something outside his skillset, some guys can most cannot.

Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates are both expected to block, and have been their entire careers. If they weren't, they wouldn't have been nearly as successful, b/c teams would immediately know it was a pass play when they were out there. Most TEs/WRs are expected to run, block, and tackle, as most are also used on special teams (not Gonzo and Gates, obvs - maybe early in their careers).

I know this, because its happened to me, we got a new coach who looked and saw a 6-5 guy who weighed 330 pounds and who played college basketball, he immediately decided to build a 3-4 defence around me, I told him to watch film on me , im not a mauler, I dont do well at two gapping , my best moves are swims, rip to swims and spins, none of which translate well to playing inside in a gap control system. Im a pretty strong guy but my strength comes from my legs, and im not a guy who benched 225 40 times but I could bench 370 pounds 3-4 times. I knew my limitations. IM also fragile, like most very large people, I have bad ankles (they are thin compared to the rest of me lol) but I found I coupld protect myself inside by simply being quick off the ball because I wouldnt be standing still reading the play id be attacking and its harder to get into my legs if im on the move.

long story short I went from being our teams dmvp and the lineman of the year for the league to being a solid player who managed to play only a couple games before getting injured, our defence collapsed and went from being a top ranked unit to being near the bottom of the league. So I saw a lot of parralells between my situation in 2000 and alberts last year.

No offense to you, Ryman, but your personal experiences on the football field are irrelevant to the Albert Haynesworth situation, except to provide rationale as to why you support the POS.

It is his fault he didnt get it in writing

Right, so I am correct. It was not in writing. End of discussion.

2- on this you are completely incorrect outright wrong. the 21million dollar payment was Alberts the minute he signed the dotted line, it was disguised as a roster bonus to help us beat the cap, this is known. therefore we screwed up when the team decided to use money he had already earned to negotiate with him. we could avoided the payment only if we cut him, even had we traded him the money would have been due. you are buying the media spin on that and its wrong.

"Disguised" as a roster bonus? Not really sure what you mean here - if we cut him, he didn't get the money; that's no disguise, it actually IS a roster bonus. That's what a roster bonus is. Shanahan sat him down, asked him if he was cool with switching to the 3-4 and playing NT, and he outright lied to the coach's face. We didn't cut him, and he kept the money. If he had said "no, I don't want to play 3-4 b/c I'm not the right fit," we would have cut him, and he would not have passed go and collected his $200.

3- I never said money wasnt A motivation I said it wasnt the only motivation. yes we offered one of the best packages, but tampa and the gnats also offered solid packages. he chose us because we already had a good defence (funny eh?) and because we ran a defence that he could excel in if used correctly.

He could have excelled in either NY or Tampa or obviously if he stayed in Tennessee. So what was the final deciding factor? THE MONEY.

truth be told im often shocked at how often fans take the media at their word let alone how many people jumped on the AH hatewagon.

Is he an idiot and not always the best person? yes and he needs to get a clue about being a decent human being , but he was not entirely at fault here.

Still not sure what I've taken the media's word on, other than the "disguised" mystery roster bonus that's actually not a roster bonus...I'd love for you to enlighten me.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Definitely uncalled for. But, it was fansince not Ryman.

Whoops...Monday, Monday! Edited.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Just curious Ryman - if you think the Skins shouldn't have used the $21M to negotiate, then do you believe roster bonuses should be illegal? Because they are standard in most contracts, and players are cut every year to avoid paying them out. Are you saying every team that cuts a player due a roster bonus is in violation of the contract?

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Media-driven BS? Please tell me what part of my post is factually inaccurate.



No need to shout - I never once said any of this. I simply said he should play where expected to play, especially when he says he's on board to collect a $21M bonus. Whether or not he's being misused is another topic altogether, and I don't necessarily disagree. Doesn't mean he is justified in his actions.



Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates are both expected to block, and have been their entire careers. If they weren't, they wouldn't have been nearly as successful, b/c teams would immediately know it was a pass play when they were out there. Most TEs/WRs are expected to run, block, and tackle, as most are also used on special teams (not Gonzo and Gates, obvs - maybe early in their careers).



No offense to you, Ryman, but your personal experiences on the football field are irrelevant to the Albert Haynesworth situation, except to provide rationale as to why you support the POS.



Right, so I am correct. It was not in writing. End of discussion.



"Disguised" as a roster bonus? Not really sure what you mean here - if we cut him, he didn't get the money; that's no disguise, it actually IS a roster bonus. That's what a roster bonus is. Shanahan sat him down, asked him if he was cool with switching to the 3-4 and playing NT, and he outright lied to the coach's face. We didn't cut him, and he kept the money. If he had said "no, I don't want to play 3-4 b/c I'm not the right fit," we would have cut him, and he would not have passed go and collected his $200.



He could have excelled in either NY or Tampa or obviously if he stayed in Tennessee. So what was the final deciding factor? THE MONEY.



Still not sure what I've taken the media's word on, other than the "disguised" mystery roster bonus that's actually not a roster bonus...I'd love for you to enlighten me.

Not to be insulting but its simple, you bought into the fact that somehow it was ok for the team to say " we will trade you if you dont collect the 21 million dollar bonus that is legally yours already." if I tell you "sign this paper, once you do, I will pay you a million dollars in 2 installments for you to shine my shoes for two years" then a few months later I say " ok I will let you out of your side of the deal but only if you dont collect one of the installments that you already earned." would you be inclined to tell me to go eff myself? some people would take the money and laugh, some people would say "well im not ever gonna get thata agin so screw that!"

point two should have typed ENS emphais not shouting, I hate the internet.

bottom line is he is being asked to do something completely against his skillset, worse yet its a more demanding position, like asking Calvin johnson to play blocking TE, he could he is big and strong enough, but what a waste!.

being expected to block once in a while and being expected to block 90% of the time are completely different, much like standing your ground and holding the poa is very different from getting in the backfield and disrupting. dont tell me you think a good use of those players skills would be to try and make them blocking te's.

none taken, but my personal experience is relevant simply in that I have an insight into this at more than a fan level. Ive done it. and Ive been on the coaching side of it as well.

LOL no but it was well documented by several sources that promises were made, and yes thats gonna affect how free agents act with us now.

You do understand the concept of the salary cap do you not? basically when albert signed the deal the money was broken up into lump sums, in total hes collected about 36 million so far I think, the 21 million dollars would have been paid if he was on the roster, there was no way danny or shanny was gonna cut him to avoid the 21 million as the amount already spent was staggering. however it was a bush move to try and use that to get him to renegotiate. you dont use someones own money to negotiate with. ive read that instead of 100 million its actually a 48 million contract now because it can be voided at the skins decision now because of some of ah's hijinx.

im not saying you cant disike him, im saying that some of your reasoning is flawed.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Just curious Ryman - if you think the Skins shouldn't have used the $21M to negotiate, then do you believe roster bonuses should be illegal? Because they are standard in most contracts, and players are cut every year to avoid paying them out. Are you saying every team that cuts a player due a roster bonus is in violation of the contract?

Im rarely on the teams side in these things, they use deferred roster bonuses to circumvent the cap, I think you are misunderstanding something, that roster bonus wasnt a typical roster bonus, it wasnt tied to him being on the team for the next season or currently on the roster (as most roster bonuses are) it was tied to him being on the team the season prior (perhaps I should call it a deferred roster payment as thats closer to what that 21 million was) so in essence he had already earned it simply by signing the contract. im not a lawyer but this was discussed on another forum where someone posted the actual verbiage in the contract. there is a reson the union was going to get involved.

 

[fansince62]

Definitely uncalled for. But, it was fansince not Ryman.

the personal violence was all over his post. it's a cop out to selectively target objects of the invective and then claim virtue. I will respond in kind every time I cross fatuous posts like these.

 

[fansince62]

Personal insults are not called for, fansince.

Wealth envy? Of course I'm envious. I sure wish I could make $21M doing what I do, and then tell my bosses to stuff it, be a terrible employee, and KEEP the money.

EDIT: Sorry Ryman.

Lanky...your post was filled to the brim with anger and personal insults directed at AH. pleading not guilty because the same "tone" and "language" wasn't directed at Ryman...and I really fail to see the difference since what you really did was attack Ryman indirectly through the attack on AH.....is shades of the same color. as noted above...I saw it for what it was. that post was no more "under control" or "decorous" than some of the posts I make on 5 O'Clock when I am operating in anger mode. I recognize the mindset almost instantaneously since I am prone to same.

oh...and you're doing the same again in the quoted post. Take the blowback if you're going to be a blowhard.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

I gotta say im not very sensitive but I agree somewhat with Fansince about the attacks on AH, for some reason its ok to bash him but its not ok to bash certain other people.

Im not saying everyone has to like him, I dont like AH as a person at all, but I dont know him. I am saying however that much of the crap that has been spread about him was media driven. every week a new freak out headline.

 

[Goaldeje]

Two wrongs make a right, Al?
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

good point, and once I take the plank out of my eye, ill start in on his. lol

 

[Chris]

the personal violence was all over his post. it's a cop out to selectively target objects of the invective and then claim virtue. I will respond in kind every time I cross fatuous posts like these.

Melodrama much?

 

[Miles Monroe]

As they say, the waiting is the hardest part, and Wednesday can't come soon enough.

Man, would I love to be a fly on the wall in the meeting between Shanny and Alberto....

 

[Boone]

Haynesworth isn't a member here.

Come on guys - play nice. Tone matters here. I'm a little disappointed to even have to say it. You have the private message feature if you want to go at each other and make it personal. We give a lot of latitude here in not 'moderating'. That doesn't mean we won't do it.

 

[The Burgundy Ghost]

Thank Mike Shanahan.

I thank Dan Snyder. He brought Haynesworth here. Then he brought Shanahan here who wanted to run a 3-4, something Haynesworth didn't want to do.

 

[the Omniscient]

Well, here is something I have learned: Albert is the new Jason Campbell, although he does not have as many supporters. Not really, but, he is polarizing. Neither side is going to budge.

I was going to type a longer response arguing my view on both sides as well as some opinions in this thread that I disagree with, but in the end, I think it would be useless.