The 2025 Draft Thread

[burgold]

We are so fixated on 'measureables' in the modern era.

I still remember the shock in the announcers voice when a thirty-something year old/never was a great athlete Neil Olkiewiscz ran down an in his prime Bo Jackson. Neil analyzed the play and made a beeline to the sideline and got there just as Bo turned the corner.

It was great.

Give me a Ryan Clark over a dozen Adam Archulettas.

 

[DWinzit]

I still remember the shock in the announcers voice when a thirty-something year old/never was a great athlete Neil Olkiewiscz ran down an in his prime Bo Jackson. Neil analyzed the play and made a beeline to the sideline and got there just as Bo turned the corner.

It was great.

Give me a Ryan Clark over a dozen Adam Archulettas.

Yeah there sure is something to be said for true guys with great motors, who are true studys of the game preparing themselves for their opponents and having great instincts to work through the trash and or take all the right angles.

 

[Anselmheifer]

I will say, that as a whole, 40 time is not the most important thing for a WR. It’s not as critical at CB. That’s not just my take. There are studies that say that.

There have been a million great 4.52 receivers.

Still, we lacked a speed YAC guy and now we have one.

 

[Conn]

We are so fixated on 'measureables' in the modern era. Not going to try and argue that the numbers don't matter - because someone's raw physical ability obviously does matter. But I think we are often too focused on them, and spend too little time looking at actual football skills, drive, smarts, other factors that equate to a really good football player. Sometimes I wonder looking at some of our franchises former great players if they would have ever gotten a chance if they were starting out in an era of 40 times and RAS scores? Would they ever have gotten drafted or signed or have the opportunity to shine on the field.

The answer for a lot of them is no, but that’s also because you used to be able to slowly develop guys back then, stash em, let them work on their own timeline. The league mostly doesn’t allow for that anymore, but the flip side of that coin is that NFL football and college football have more in common every year, schematically, so guys do adjust easier (and faster). The average player at every position—starting younger and through state of the art nutrition, training, and supplements—has gotten generally larger, faster, and more athletic over the decades given the entire football ecosystem is such a money maker, so it’s tough to compare across eras to guys who needed offseason jobs just to make ends meet.

 

[skinsinparadise]

 

[skinsinparadise]

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

We are so fixated on 'measureables' in the modern era. Not going to try and argue that the numbers don't matter - because someone's raw physical ability obviously does matter. But I think we are often too focused on them, and spend too little time looking at actual football skills, drive, smarts, other factors that equate to a really good football player. Sometimes I wonder looking at some of our franchises former great players if they would have ever gotten a chance if they were starting out in an era of 40 times and RAS scores? Would they ever have gotten drafted or signed or have the opportunity to shine on the field.

The only thing I would counter is there is a stat called RAS, which is Raw Athletic Score, which takes all the measurables and athletic testing scores and comes up with a grade.

CLEARLY Peters thinks this is important because we’ve been the #1 RAS team in the draft 2 years running.

I don’t disagree fans obsess over measurables.

But at the same time, our GM is kindof hinting he thinks they are important also.

Ideally of course you get the intangibles, smarts, technique and production to go along with elite athletic ability.

 

[Boone]

The only thing I would counter is there is a stat called RAS, which is Raw Athletic Score, which takes all the measurables and athletic testing scores and comes up with a grade.

CLEARLY Peters thinks this is important because we’ve been the #1 RAS team in the draft 2 years running.

I don’t disagree fans obsess over measurables.

But at the same time, our GM is kindof hinting he thinks they are important also.

Ideally of course you get the intangibles, smarts, technique and production to go along with elite athletic ability.

I wasn’t saying fans obsess over measurables. The NFL is obsessed with measurables. And every season there are guys who prove to anyone watching that it is not just about the measurables.

 

[Primus Porcus]

40 times:

Jerry Rice - 4.71
Art Monk - 4.5
Sean Taylor - 4.51
Chris Cooley - 4.87
Stephen Davis - 4.54

Puka Nacua - 4.57
Cooper Kupp - 4.62
Ceedee Lamb - 4.5




Fully accept that the game is quite a bit different now than it was won Rice / Monk were in the game, so there's grading on a curve.

 

[Gooseneck]

40 times:

Jerry Rice - 4.71
Art Monk - 4.5
Sean Taylor - 4.51
Chris Cooley - 4.87
Stephen Davis - 4.54

Puka Nacua - 4.57
Cooper Kupp - 4.62
Ceedee Lamb - 4.5




Fully accept that the game is quite a bit different now than it was won Rice / Monk were in the game, so there's grading on a curve.

Gooseneck-4.18

 

[DogofWar1]

40 times:

Jerry Rice - 4.71
Art Monk - 4.5
Sean Taylor - 4.51
Chris Cooley - 4.87
Stephen Davis - 4.54

Puka Nacua - 4.57
Cooper Kupp - 4.62
Ceedee Lamb - 4.5




Fully accept that the game is quite a bit different now than it was won Rice / Monk were in the game, so there's grading on a curve.

Impressive.

Now let's see the 10 yard dash times.

 

[Primus Porcus]

View attachment 11163

Impressive.

Now let's see the 10 yard dash times.

Honestly 10 yard splits are more 'important' to me as it's a better indicator of acceleration, which is the quickest way to create separation. And that's not only for skill players. I think it's comical that we ask O-lineman to run a 40. I want to see them bring that down to a 20 yard dash as that is where the money is made along the O-line, as well as the D-line. I'm not worried about top speed as much as I want to know how fast you can get to top speed. 98% of the time, O-lineman have ZERO responsibility within a play call beyond 10 yards. After that, if they're even still involved, they're not running straight lines.

 

[Always Commander Never Captain]

I do wish RAS weighted some of the stats differently. If they have methodology to prove their weights are appropriate I'd love to see it. But it feels like agility testing is a bit on the back burner for overall RAS numbers.

I also don't like how they extrapolate incomplete data. We know some people have high RAS from extrapolating missing data, but sometimes those guys skip the drills they known they'll test poorly in.

 

[heisenberg]

I've never been able to figure out ras scores.
Some of it makes sense to me some of it not at all.

One left tackle who's 6'5 315 will have elite scores in height and weight and another tackle who's 6'4 and 9 tenths 314 will have poor scores.

It's like ok, change your cleats and eat a hot dog and you're elite now.

 

[burgold]

Going nerd. I think I'd like to see RAS scored done in a D&D style. So certain attributes get weighted.

For example, a fighter needs strength, dexterity, and constitution and while a mage can benefit from those intelligence is the key factor. Likewise, certain RAS scores are far more important when looking at a lineman than a wide receiver. A QB needs intelligence, perception, and accuracy maximized. A running back might need more quickness than outright speed. A cornerback may need better change of direction and ability to stop and start and accelerate than strength.

They probably do do this, but I haven't done much other than look at the box.

 

[Chris]

Going nerd. I think I'd like to see RAS scored done in a D&D style. So certain attributes get weighted.

For example, a fighter needs strength, dexterity, and constitution and while a mage can benefit from those intelligence is the key factor. Likewise, certain RAS scores are far more important when looking at a lineman than a wide receiver. A QB needs intelligence, perception, and accuracy maximized. A running back might need more quickness than outright speed. A cornerback may need better change of direction and ability to stop and start and accelerate than strength.

They probably do do this, but I haven't done much other than look at the box.

Going? 🤣

 

[Bulldog]

I think Jimmy Johnson’s comment that a big talented team usually beats a smaller talented team is still relevant in the NFL.

I like to see OL and DL that are big and athletic.

Nice to see corners at 6’0 to 6’2.

Wideouts who are 6’3 and 215.

There are obviously some guys that come in undersized but are just rare talents and you make room for them.

But I liked it when Washington had the biggest OL in the NFL and trotted Monk at 6’4 and 210 out there with Riggins at 6’2 and 235.

We ate up smaller defenses who preached quickness.

3 quarters of being beaten on usually yielded great results in the fourth quarter.

 

[DogofWar1]

Honestly 10 yard splits are more 'important' to me as it's a better indicator of acceleration, which is the quickest way to create separation. And that's not only for skill players. I think it's comical that we ask O-lineman to run a 40. I want to see them bring that down to a 20 yard dash as that is where the money is made along the O-line, as well as the D-line. I'm not worried about top speed as much as I want to know how fast you can get to top speed. 98% of the time, O-lineman have ZERO responsibility within a play call beyond 10 yards. After that, if they're even still involved, they're not running straight lines.

Yup.

How many players have to run 40 uninterrupted yards on any given play. WRs, CBs, Safeties? And even then, not all WRs.

10 yards split, 20 yard dash, 3 cone, shuttle way more important for most positions. Vert/Broad too. Explosiveness super important.

 

[method man]

He may have more value to us than to other teams. A great run stopper with a little pass rush juice might be extremely useful to this team in particular.

Hearing Keim’s latest pod, seems like implication is they have had some level of conversation with Miller, Smith & Clowney because he went out of his way to say they haven’t contacted Judon and another guy.

If we can afford it, I’d love to bring both Clowney and Smith here. Clowney/Smith/Wise/Armstrong/JJB is a solid group. No star but deep like the Eagles rotation last year

 

[skinsinparadise]