The 2025 Free Agency Thread

[Command The Best]

I get the point but in a stacked draft for edge, DT, RB, am not dying to get rid of draft capital. I'd do it for Garrett because he's a freak. Landry is really good but no freak. Instead of paying big money and draft capital for an ex-Boston College player -- why not a younger-cheaper Boston College edge with similar pedigree in this draft like Ezeiruaka

Seems like the Pats w/ a Vrabel reunion for Landry

 

[skinsinparadise]

I know Dan Quinn has run a hybrid 1 gap/2 gap defense in the past. Here the 3 tech (Allen/Newton) and the hybrid end/LB (normally Fowler) played 1 gap. The 1 tech (Payne/Day) and the big DE (Armstrong) played 2 gap. We mixed it up but this was the trend in base D at least. We’d get more 1gap focused in obvious passing downs.

I think a big part of our weakness against the run was the DEs not being great at setting an edge. Fowler played well against the pass but struggled physically against the run and Armstrong was more solid but just isn’t a top tier end. I would try to bring Fowler back and try to upgrade the DE spot opposite him. Allen will not be here so Newton steps up and it’s a deep draft at DT to find someone who can play 3 tech to rotate with him.

Yeah no doubt as I've mentioned the DE's being poor at setting the edge was the biggest problem. I gap in nickle-passing downs, etc though that's common for many teams. It just caught my attention how much Logan Paulsen emphasized that it was the spacing of how this defense played was a key part of their defensive struggles -- opening creases all over the place along with defensive players not following their assignments well.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I think there weren't many people congratulating scheme because the results weren't there.

That doesn't necessarily mean scheme is at fault.

If players are in positions to make plays, scheme should generally be "ok" at least.

If players are not making the "small" correct decisions (like the right move to get push into the QB, the right gap to fill in certain alignment), I think that would likely be more of the position coach than the coordinator. I mean, it depends - but I think in many cases those kinds of things end up being more on the position coach.

I am not absolving Joe Whitt even in that case though. I feel like I saw some year-long problems that were unaddressed. However: I also feel like I saw Payne and Allen not winning individual battles. I don't think that is a coaching thing at that point at all. In terms of shooting gaps, that would typically be a coaching thing unless you have some guys who are undisciplined. One of my problems with Fowler is that he seemed a bit like 2020 Chase Young to me at times. I may be wrong, but I think the team is ready to let him walk this year and that may be part of the reason.

From our perspective it's really hard to judge who is at fault of course, but I totally agree with you that we don't necessarily talk about coaching enough. The best HCs are the ones who are willing to take a step back and have hard conversations with coordinators and on-down (position coaches) when performance isn't good enough, and not just jump to blaming players. It's one of the really horrible parts of seeing your HC bring in buddies; you know accountability is likely going to be very slow moving.

Agree its not easy to judge. My point is Whitt doesn't get a complete pass from me regardless of how cool he comes off in his press conferences for a variety of reasons I expressed.

Before the Eagles playoff game some of their beat guys hit the point of watch out for turnovers Washington because the Eagles practice the heck out of punching the ball out and they are coached up to be masters at it. It struck me a bit more after that game of course about how great they are at it. 9 turnovers against Washington in the last two games, that's insane. What does this defense do well? Really nothing. They don't turn the ball over. Don't stop the pass. Doesn't stop the run. They play their worse ball in the 4th quarter -- no matter who is driving the ship whether its Trey Lance, Rattler or whomever.

This defense isn't that talented but its not a train wreck either. Wagner and Luvu are good LBs. The safeties are good. Payne and Allen were good until last year. Fowlers for his faults is a double digit sack guy. Sainristill is good. Noah I isn't a bad nickel. Weaknesses exist, indeed. But am with Sheehan when he makes this case it shouldn't be THIS level bad considering the talent wasn't that level awful.

As for the DTs the one thng I'll say in their defense is they were apparently doubled a lot. Both of them. And that helped part the seas at times up the A gap.

In general, I love it that Whitt can kill it in those press conferences. Yes some sarcasm from me. But just him being a good dude doesn't earn a complete pass from me. Joe Barry, Jim Haslett were good dudes, too but not good coordinators. And look maybe Whitt is a good coordinator, I am not ruling that out. But his press conferences and personality alone doesn't sell me. Will see.

 

[Riggo44]

The defense isn’t as bad a train wreck statistically as I thought: 13th over all in total yards, buoyed by 3rd in pass defense, by yards. I don’t put any real stock in YPG because of so many factors it doesn’t account for. However, PFF had us ranked as the 20th over all defense—not great, obviously, but not the chaotic shit show it was the previous two years. While we have good players in Luvu, Wagner; Fowler is a role player, Ferrell made about 3 plays, BSJ just got burnt and committed DPI while sitting on his couch, Davis was somehow worse. I like Armstrong, Chinn, and Payne, theyre good, not great players.

That’s all we have: good players, not great, not game changers. We need a game wrecker. Who do we have on defense that OCs have to game plan for?

 

[Chris 44]

The defense isn’t as bad a train wreck statistically as I thought: 13th over all in total yards, buoyed by 3rd in pass defense, by yards. I don’t put any real stock in YPG because of so many factors it doesn’t account for. However, PFF had us ranked as the 20th over all defense—not great, obviously, but not the chaotic shit show it was the previous two years. While we have good players in Luvu, Wagner; Fowler is a role player, Ferrell made about 3 plays, BSJ just got burnt and committed DPI while sitting on his couch, Davis was somehow worse. I like Armstrong, Chinn, and Payne, theyre good, not great players.

That’s all we have: good players, not great, not game changers. We need a game wrecker. Who do we have on defense that OCs have to game plan for?

2 blue chippers on this defense would be huge...but that's easier said than done. lol MG would elevate this D, add a really good tackle along with a couple tweaks in the secondary and your looking at a very good D.

 

[Riggo44]

Blue chippers are typically drafted--we need to find our blue chippers there. Rarely are a Garrett or Parsons available and their price is steep, obviously. I still don't fully believe Garrett gets traded.

 

[heisenberg]

Yeah no doubt as I've mentioned the DE's being poor at setting the edge was the biggest problem. I gap in nickle-passing downs, etc though that's common for many teams. It just caught my attention how much Logan Paulsen emphasized that it was the spacing of how this defense played was a key part of their defensive struggles -- opening creases all over the place along with defensive players not following their assignments well.

Hey, just noticed you're here, good to see you again!

 

[MartinC]

Blue chippers are typically drafted--we need to find our blue chippers there. Rarely are a Garrett or Parsons available and their price is steep, obviously. I still don't fully believe Garrett gets traded.

Deep draft at Edge and DT.

 

[skinsinparadise]

The defense isn’t as bad a train wreck statistically as I thought: 13th over all in total yards, buoyed by 3rd in pass defense, by yards. I don’t put any real stock in YPG because of so many factors it doesn’t account for. However, PFF had us ranked as the 20th over all defense—not great, obviously, but not the chaotic shit show it was the previous two years. While we have good players in Luvu, Wagner; Fowler is a role player, Ferrell made about 3 plays, BSJ just got burnt and committed DPI while sitting on his couch, Davis was somehow worse. I like Armstrong, Chinn, and Payne, theyre good, not great players.

That’s all we have: good players, not great, not game changers. We need a game wrecker. Who do we have on defense that OCs have to game plan for?

Yeah I know some stats they weren't bad at. Our offense IMO had much to do with that. When you control the ball and don't punt the ball at all in some games -- its a godsend for a defense.

But on the aggregate, it was a bad defense. They can't stop the run. They can't stop the pass enough. They don't create turnovers. They play their worst ball typicaly in the 4th quarter and when the game is on the line.

Do I think this offense can mask this defense to some extent? Sure. But I'd love to have a defense at a minimum that can turn the ball over.

 

[Riggo44]

Deep draft at Edge and DT.

True, but it feels more like a lot of "solid starter" ceilings, especially picking at 29. We shall see.

 

[Riggo44]

But on the aggregate, it was a bad defense.

I agree that it's bad--but it actually improved significantly, which is frightening. Fully agree that we need help everywhere on defense--I am beginning to wonder how much Wagner has left in the tank, too. I also wonder where Jordan Magee fits into that picture--if at all. Everything I have heard says the staff loves him

 

[Anselmheifer]

Yeah I know some stats they weren't bad at. Our offense IMO had much to do with that. When you control the ball and don't punt the ball at all in some games -- its a godsend for a defense.

But on the aggregate, it was a bad defense. They can't stop the run. They can't stop the pass enough. They don't create turnovers. They play their worst ball typicaly in the 4th quarter and when the game is on the line.

Do I think this offense can mask this defense to some extent? Sure. But I'd love to have a defense at a minimum that can turn the ball over.

All of this is true. I think if there is anything that needs to be tuned up with scheme, Quinn can look at tweaking things this offseason, with Whitt.

I do think however that we have enough talent on the roster, that a few solid but not spectacular additions, would make us at least average. Adding a corner an edge and a DT that is more solid against the run would go a long way. We’ve seen with other teams how quickly you can turn a defense around in one offseason.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I agree that it's bad--but it actually improved significantly, which is frightening. Fully agree that we need help everywhere on defense--I am beginning to wonder how much Wagner has left in the tank, too. I also wonder where Jordan Magee fits into that picture--if at all. Everything I have heard says the staff loves him

Time of possession is such an X factor with defense. This offense was one of the best in the league on that front in 2024 and one of the worst in 2023. Clearly, if teams have more chances to give up yards and points by being on the field more ala the 2023 team -- they will in turn give up more yards and points let alone fatigue sets in more.

As bad as the 2023 defense was, they had more picks, lol, granted just one more. They were better against the run. And while I do think having Sweat for half a season helped -- I do think the 2024 defense had better players than the 2023.

That's my way of saying if the thought is at a minimum it was a better coached unit than 2023. I got no idea. But them giving up less yards and points doesn't sway me that much.

My biggest beef with the defense last year is sans a game or two they played their worst late in the game and with the game on the line. And guys that aren't that hot moved the ball on them especially in the clutch -- Pickett, Lance, Penix (only has 2nd start), Rattler, heck even the Giants scrub QBs took this defense down to the wire.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Before the Eagles playoff game some of their beat guys hit the point of watch out for turnovers Washington because the Eagles practice the heck out of punching the ball out and they are coached up to be masters at it. It struck me a bit more after that game of course about how great they are at it. 9 turnovers against Washington in the last two games, that's insane. What does this defense do well? Really nothing. They don't turn the ball over. Don't stop the pass. Doesn't stop the run. They play their worse ball in the 4th quarter -- no matter who is driving the ship whether its Trey Lance, Rattler or whomever.

To be clear, I tend to agree that we may have coaching issues. I would highlight a few areas in particular:
DB coach
DL coach
OL coach

Those are three units that really struggled. Yes, we can say that the talent level on two of those units (DB, OL) had some lack of blue-chips, but I would counter with this:
- I saw some very clear technique issues that lasted across multiple games. So now the question is, are we not addressing it (coaching)? Is the player not "getting it" (coachability)? Is the player unable to get it (skill)?

Probably one that bothered me a lot -- I repeatedly saw DBs who should be able to recognize the WR in a clear catching pose (eyes up, hands up) and our DB keeps his head on the WR. It looked like it may have even been coached that way because frankly I think I saw every DB do this many, many times this year - and surprise surprise, we had a lot of DPI in those situations unless it was uncatchable or unless there was absolutely no contact. To me, in the modern NFL with the rules of today, it's almost impossible to play DB that way. You will get dinged for DPI way too often.

However, in terms of scheme specifically, again I don't know that players were so horribly out of position all of the time. I did think it was weird when Barkley kind of bragged on them prepping that first play with a trick supposedly - although even there you have some weird individual circumstances like Chinn mistackling, Wagner and Fowler fouling up (har har)... would be interesting to know the truth on that play, and how much whatever they did mattered.

Yes it really stunk that on our side, we didn't have a better emphasis on protecting the ball in our prep for the NFCCG considering what happened before. I would say JD *absolutely did* but it was unclear if anyone else understood that aspect needed to be ESPECIALLY careful. Sacrifice a yard if it means SECURING THE BALL.

Where I do think I differ with you is, this defense did make some timely stops. I do think it overall struggled, but I am not sure I can say it struggled "way more" than expected given the personnel. Also you pointed out time-of-possession, I think we had some issues there where the O actually did *not* help the D, passing the ball late where other running teams would run and eat clock (like the Eagles, even pre-Barkley for YEARS, would do). Personally for me, I don't think I look back at this year and say "Whitt is bad" and I also don't look at the year and say "Whitt is good" - I look at it and say, given the personnel, it is pretty unclear. I would rate him OK, possibly good. If guys don't win individual battles up-front, and if guys struggle to cover effectively... it's pretty tough. You need to manufacture pressure *timely* and with *creativity* and they did that *sometimes.* Anyway, it's just my read looking back right now. I could be swayed but right now that's my opinion.

 

[skinsinparadise]

All of this is true. I think if there is anything that needs to be tuned up with scheme, Quinn can look at tweaking things this offseason, with Whitt.

I do think however that we have enough talent on the roster, that a few solid but not spectacular additions, would make us at least average. Adding a corner an edge and a DT that is more solid against the run would go a long way. We’ve seen with other teams how quickly you can turn a defense around in one offseason.

Agree. It's sort of my point. IMO the talent on defense was slightly below average. At a minimum I don't think the whole was greater than its parts. I think we will add enough parts, and in turn it should be at least average especially with an offense than can score and control the ball. I do have a lot of faith in Quinn trying to turn this unit around but I get the sense he's fairly hands off the unit. Whitt, I don't know one way or another. I am not high on him or low. But I don't care anymore how awesome he sounds at the podium. lol, i want to see better play this year. I give him a pass for last year, I won't if they struggle as bad as they did in 2024 in 2025.

 

[skinsinparadise]

To be clear, I tend to agree that we may have coaching issues. I would highlight a few areas in particular:
DB coach
DL coach
OL coach

Those are three units that really struggled. Yes, we can say that the talent level on two of those units (DB, OL) had some lack of blue-chips, but I would counter with this:
- I saw some very clear technique issues that lasted across multiple games. So now the question is, are we not addressing it (coaching)? Is the player not "getting it" (coachability)? Is the player unable to get it (skill)?

Probably one that bothered me a lot -- I repeatedly saw DBs who should be able to recognize the WR in a clear catching pose (eyes up, hands up) and our DB keeps his head on the WR. It looked like it may have even been coached that way because frankly I think I saw every DB do this many, many times this year - and surprise surprise, we had a lot of DPI in those situations unless it was uncatchable or unless there was absolutely no contact. To me, in the modern NFL with the rules of today, it's almost impossible to play DB that way. You will get dinged for DPI way too often.

However, in terms of scheme specifically, again I don't know that players were so horribly out of position all of the time. I did think it was weird when Barkley kind of bragged on them prepping that first play with a trick supposedly - although even there you have some weird individual circumstances like Chinn mistackling, Wagner and Fowler fouling up (har har)... would be interesting to know the truth on that play, and how much whatever they did mattered.

Yes it really stunk that on our side, we didn't have a better emphasis on protecting the ball in our prep for the NFCCG considering what happened before. I would say JD *absolutely did* but it was unclear if anyone else understood that aspect needed to be ESPECIALLY careful. Sacrifice a yard if it means SECURING THE BALL.

Where I do think I differ with you is, this defense did make some timely stops. I do think it overall struggled, but I am not sure I can say it struggled "way more" than expected given the personnel. Also you pointed out time-of-possession, I think we had some issues there where the O actually did *not* help the D, passing the ball late where other running teams would run and eat clock (like the Eagles, even pre-Barkley for YEARS, would do). Personally for me, I don't think I look back at this year and say "Whitt is bad" and I also don't look at the year and say "Whitt is good" - I look at it and say, given the personnel, it is pretty unclear. I would rate him OK, possibly good. If guys don't win individual battles up-front, and if guys struggle to cover effectively... it's pretty tough. You need to manufacture pressure *timely* and with *creativity* and they did that *sometimes.* Anyway, it's just my read looking back right now. I could be swayed but right now that's my opinion.

They were the third worst defense statistically in the 4th quarter according to team rankings.

We passed the ball late but often in ball control fashion. Short passes.

This isn't some just pure emotional talk on my end. Stats back of the time of possession point. Stats back the late game defensive point.

Now, we can say the stats don't back the eye test. But for me it did back the eye test so the stats are meaningful to me.

As for Whitt, I agree, not saying he's good or bad. Just saying I don't care how cool he comes off at the podium anymore. At a minimum, he's on notice with me, for reasons I explained in detail.

I don't think the O line underachieved. I don't love the talent on that unit. I think they did OK relatively speaking. I recall some personel people from other teams made comments to reporters during last season that they were surprised this team's O line held up to the extent they did.

 

[clskinsfan]

They were the third worst defense statistically in the 4th quarter according to team rankings.

We passed the ball late but often in ball control fashion. Short passes.

This isn't some just pure emotional talk on my end. Stats back of the time of possession point. Stats back the late game defensive point.

Now, we can say the stats don't back the eye test. But for me it did back the eye test so the stats are meaningful to me.

As for Whitt, I agree, not saying he's good or bad. Just saying I don't care how cool he comes off at the podium anymore. At a minimum, he's on notice with me, for reasons I explained in detail.

I don't think the O line underachieved. I don't love the talent on that unit. I think they did OK relatively speaking. I recall some personel people from other teams made comments to reporters during last season that they were surprised this team's O line held up to the extent they did.

Oh shit SIP. Its good to see you here brother!

 

[D’Pablo]

To me, it’s clear that our defensive line lacks size. Jon Allen is a bulked up 3-4 DE and Payne is a nimble 3 tech. Neither of our DEs weighed over 270 lbs. It’s pretty easy to see how teams just ran all over us, especially the Eagles with their absurdly large OL. We need to add bulk in the trenches. Honestly, we need it on both sides.

 

[Riggo44]

We need a BJ Hill, Sheldon Rankins type space eater. I love the idea of a Kenneth Grant, Deone Walker type in the draft (whether they pan out or not, I have no idea, or even if they fit our scheme)--those nimble monsters that can eat up space. Or someone like Landon Jackson at end (6'7" 280)--who I will call Zsasz if he ends up here:

Jackson

Victor Zsasz

 

[method man]

We need a BJ Hill, Sheldon Rankins type space eater. I love the idea of a Kenneth Grant, Deone Walker type in the draft (whether they pan out or not, I have no idea, or even if they fit our scheme)--those nimble monsters that can eat up space. Or someone like Landon Jackson at end (6'7" 280)--who I will call Zsasz if he ends up here:

Jackson
View attachment 9930

Victor Zsasz
View attachment 9929

Deone Walker is not a space eater. He plays with terrible leverage and was being bullied by a 270 pound lineman at the Senior Bowl. No DL has lost as much draft value as he has this past season