2024 Free Agents - who are we keeping?

[tshile]

I don’t follow close enough to know all of these

I voted for the ones I know

Except for Gibson. I’m done with the fumbling problem. Always thought we didn’t use him to maximize his potential, but I’m done with the fumbling.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I will say, that is a VERY uninspiring list.

I picked
- Fuller: He's good. He's smart. He's old. He probably has a year or two left. He won't be expensive. Also, I'd like continuity in the secondary with the new coaching staff.
- Reaves: He's a SPECIAL special teamer. He won't be expensive. Bring him back.

Others I would consider:
- Curtis Samuel: He's good. But he's a #3. Do you spend money on a #3 wideout? I dunno. If they don't bring him back, then they need to replace him somehow.
- Efe Obada/James Smith-Williams/Casey Toohill: These are all kindof the same guy. Pick one or two to re-sign for depth.
- Slye: You can do worse at kicker than the Slye Guy.

A note on Gibson. I wouldn't re-sign him. You can find RBs with speed who can catch in the draft. He is just fine. He has average vision. I'd try to upgrade that position in the draft. They have 2 RBs on the roster. A little change there would be good.

I think virtually everybody else, if you don't re-sign them, they have a clone out there you can sign.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I don’t think we’ll see the bigger turnover till maybe next year. 2024/25 will be a huge evaluation year.

I’m not sure last year was a truly fair representation of the talent level because I think the coaching was extremely suspect, especially down the stretch.

I think they’ll keep some of the reliable vets in place to provide some form of stability, as they evaluate the youth movement (players like Forbes etc) and draft in a new wave of rookies.

This time next year I see us being in a much better position to understand (assuming the DQ plan goes accordingly) where our core players stand and where we need to spend that cash.

I disagree. I think this is the year you're going to see a lot of new faces, just because they have 23 guys under contract. They're not going to re-sign a lot of the guys on the list.

Of the final 53 from 2023, I'd bet more than half are gone for the opener in 2024. Part of that is Ron's doing by not having them under contract. Part of it is they went 4-13. Part of it is a new regime will want to start over as much as they can.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

There will be players that will be better than we might think working under the new (potential) attitude and approach. There will also be some that won’t. For me, that is the interesting and important part of the process.

Who do the new bosses see as guys who will fill their desires and their needs? All NFL players have talent but not all NFL players are players.

I think that's especially true in the secondary, which interestingly is going to come back almost intact, because almost all of them were drafted in the last couple years:

- Forbes
- Quan Martin
- Percy Butler
- Derick Forrest

They have 2 big FAs, Fuller and Curl. I just get the feeling they're going to spend the Curl money elsewhere. He's good. He's not great at creating turnovers. Unless Whitt feels like he can unlock that potential, I think they're going to go in another direction.

I could see them bringing back Fuller though.

If those 4 guys above can develop into something, that would be really good for the team. They were horrendously coached last year. Like super bad.

 

[Bulldog]

I don’t see us resigning a 30 year old Kendall Fuller.

Fuller at this point in his career is hitting the back nine.

If I were the GM I would be looking for younger FA or if 30 years old then a much better performer.

 

[Knightingale]

I disagree. I think this is the year you're going to see a lot of new faces, just because they have 23 guys under contract. They're not going to re-sign a lot of the guys on the list.

Of the final 53 from 2023, I'd bet more than half are gone for the opener in 2024. Part of that is Ron's doing by not having them under contract. Part of it is they went 4-13. Part of it is a new regime will want to start over as much as they can.

I think we’ll see quite a lot of turnover, simply due to the fact that we have a lot of guys out of contract.
I just think that the brain trust in charge are going to be methodical and not just spend $80M without doing due diligence. I think they have a good idea of where our gaps are, but may need a year to determine where some players are in their development or if they can fit in the system DQ-and especially Whitt on défense- want to run.
Next off season is really where we’ll see the true picture of what is needed. When we see the system in place and can evaluate how the players respond to it. We’ll also have a better idea of how the QB position pans out assuming we draft one.
If it was me, I’d want the flexibility next year to make informed decisions with the cash to back it up.
This year any evaluation is clouded by how badly the team was coached.
Also, while I understand the urge to want to spray the ‘new car smell’ on the team asap, Harris and co have proven so far that they aren’t prone to knee jerk reactions.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I think we’ll see quite a lot of turnover, simply due to the fact that we have a lot of guys out of contract.
I just think that the brain trust in charge are going to be methodical and not just spend $80M without doing due diligence. I think they have a good idea of where our gaps are, but may need a year to determine where some players are in their development or if they can fit in the system DQ-and especially Whitt on défense- want to run.
Next off season is really where we’ll see the true picture of what is needed. When we see the system in place and can evaluate how the players respond to it. We’ll also have a better idea of how the QB position pans out assuming we draft one.
If it was me, I’d want the flexibility next year to make informed decisions with the cash to back it up.
This year any evaluation is clouded by how badly the team was coached.
Also, while I understand the urge to want to spray the ‘new car smell’ on the team asap, Harris and co have proven so far that they aren’t prone to knee jerk reactions.

Eh. I think some of it is pretty obvious. And there are some places where the obvious needs line up with openings. Those can be filled now.

There are others that might not be so obvious so it might take a little longer.

However, there is no position on the team except for Defensive Tackle where there is an incumbent starter under contract where you could reasonable say an upgrade wouldn't be somewhat easy to find.

Terry would be the other, but there are either 2 or 3 starting WRs, and we have Terry and Dotson and a third open.

We have zero DEs, 1 LB, no TEs, 1 competent player on the OL (Cosmi), some very young safeties, 1 starting CB who had a TERRIBLE rookie season....

They can upgrade the roster quickly, and they have to.

I don't think they're going to go blow through all the cash on splash signings, they'll need the cash to sign 15-20 guys. Then they'll draft 7-10 guys, and that's how they get a full roster.

 

[Bulldog]

When you are looking at Saahdiq Charles and Nick Gates, these are names only on a roster - not players you can actually count on to show up for 17 games and play effectively at this level.

Charles has spent more time on IR than the active roster and Gates isn't an NFL center.

 

[burgold]

And to think, Snyder and Rivera hoped Saahdiq Charles would be the heir apparent to Trent Williams. They rushed out to use that 3rd rounder San Francisco gave us for him to get him. Now, in fairness, his write up looked pretty good. It sounded like he was an uber-talented knucklehead who if he could get his head on straight would be a steal.

Reality proved different. He was not effective on the field and too often sideline by injuries.

 

[Bulldog]

Rivera's draft record is pretty poor. Most fans around the league assumed Rivera drafted McLaurin, Payne and a few of the other solid players on the club and when I tell them it was the prior regime, they really shake their heads about Rivera's record.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Rivera's draft record is pretty poor. Most fans around the league assumed Rivera drafted McLaurin, Payne and a few of the other solid players on the club and when I tell them it was the prior regime, they really shake their heads about Rivera's record.

It gets even worse if you believe the reports that Kyle Smith essentially build the draft board for Rivers’s first draft

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

It gets even worse if you believe the reports that Kyle Smith essentially build the draft board for Rivers’s first draft

I don't think those are reports, that was his job, wasn't it?

 

[MikefromOH]

I put Samuel and Crowder.

Unless we get some stud WR in the draft we need him and he had good moments. Crowder was very close numerous times on breaking one on returns and that's something we haven't seen consistently since Rock.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I don't think those are reports, that was his job, wasn't it?

Yes, he put together the draft board on 2020, then they moved him from him in January 2021. From what I understand he put together the draft board used in 2021 well after his departure.

I mixed up my years a bit, but the drop off, especially in the day 2 and day 3 picks after Kyle Smith's boards is even more concerning.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Yes, he put together the draft board on 2020, then they moved him from him in January 2021. From what I understand he put together the draft board used in 2021 well after his departure.

I mixed up my years a bit, but the drop off, especially in the day 2 and day 3 picks after Kyle Smith's boards is even more concerning.

I think it's important to just realize, there's no question the initial board was set by Kyle smith before he left in Jan 2021. Because that process starts during the college football season. Scouts are out watching games, I'm sure Kyle was watching college games and film during the 2020 season to get ready for the 2021 off-season.

There's no question work was done by the scouts and by Kyle Smith before he was fired. And the team owned that work. Also, that work would have been the compellation of all of the other scouts in the building, and if memory serves, most if not all of them were retained.

Do I think Kyle Smith's draft board was the starting point for the 2021 draft? Yes. Do I think the draft board was set in January and didn't change after that based on combine, workouts, other input from scouts, interviews, etc? No. I'm pretty sure it changed. Ron and staff might have been somewhat clueless, but they weren't lazy.

I do think it's important to separate the actual facts from the piling on. And the media is in piling on mode at the moment, so it's a bit difficult.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

And to think, Snyder and Rivera hoped Saahdiq Charles would be the heir apparent to Trent Williams. They rushed out to use that 3rd rounder San Francisco gave us for him to get him. Now, in fairness, his write up looked pretty good. It sounded like he was an uber-talented knucklehead who if he could get his head on straight would be a steal.

Reality proved different. He was not effective on the field and too often sideline by injuries.

I do wonder if things might have been different for Charles if he didn't show up and get hurt literally immediately. He missed essentially his entire rookie season because he was hurt, and was climbing up hill the entire time after that. And he STILL couldn't stay healthy.

The criminal negligence was going into 2023 with him competing with Chris Paul for the starting right guard spot. They already had YEARS to figure out that wasn't going to go well, and they just let it happen. That was a firable offense. Which led to a firing, so I guess there's that.

Rivera's draft record is pretty poor. Most fans around the league assumed Rivera drafted McLaurin, Payne and a few of the other solid players on the club and when I tell them it was the prior regime, they really shake their heads about Rivera's record.

It's wild the perception inside and outside the area of Rivera. I'll be honest, I'm surprised it went as poorly as it did. I think he is a perfect example of "the peter principal." I still think he was a good DC in San Diego, and a good Head Coach in Carolina.

The Peter Principal states you rise to your level of incompetence. So, you're good at one job, you get promoted to another which has different requirements. If you do well, great! However, you might also suck at it, and then you get fired.

I think Ron was a good coach. Ron as head of football ops stunk. And the head of football ops part made the coaching part bad too.

I put Samuel and Crowder.

Unless we get some stud WR in the draft we need him and he had good moments. Crowder was very close numerous times on breaking one on returns and that's something we haven't seen consistently since Rock.

I dunno. I think you can find another Samuel out there for less money, assuming Terry and Dotson are essentially the starters. I don't think you want to pay Samuel what he is going to command to be a 3rd WR.

And Samuel should BEG and PLEAD to go to KC. He already knows the offense. He's good and can catch. He'd be an immediate upgrade to their WR room. I think KC is going to add 3 WRs this off-season, at least one in the draft and 2 WRs who will play in FA. He'd fit the mold. And then he'll win a SB next year.

Crowder, man, Adam Peters better be able to find a better punt returner somewhere other than 98 year old Crowder.

 

[Chris]

Maybe I’m alone on this but…I view Samuels as an equally valuable player today to Dotson. Last season Samuels was the third most productive offensive player behind Brian Robinson and McLaurin. Jahan is younger and he could potentially surpass Curtis in production, especially if used more like he was in 2022 than 2023.

Samuels is 27 and currently in his prime but seems to be considered old by fans. Terry McLaurin is a year older and is not.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Damn I think I said he was 29 on the pod last night… not sure where I got that from

 

[Chris]

Damn I think I said he was 29 on the pod last night… not sure where I got that from

Samuel turns 28 in August. McLaurin turns 29 in September.

 

[burgold]

One of the things I think Rivera did right was that in his first year here he signed a lot of free agents to one year prove it deals. You can argue that that was his most successful outing, too. A number of those players had pretty good years. I wouldn't mind if this year, Peters copied that model and kept the roster basically intact and supplemented with 1 year rentals as the coaches get to know the roster.

The exception being oline. If we do see someone worth it on o line who's youngish and talented then we should ink them.