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2023 Washington Roster Moves
- Thread starter Chris
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I like utilizing the tag here on Payne, one if we can come to reasonable long term deal fantastic, if not we get to see if he was a one year wonder boy for stats or if some team wants to pony up, phone lines are open.
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What you have had them do at this point?
By using the non-exclusive tag they get two #1 picks if they don’t match another team’s offer and they have until mid-July to come to agreement on a LTD. Payne’s agent isn’t going to agree to any new deal until the DT market is established in free agency.
How often do other teams make offers to a player on a non-exclusive rights tag?
Looking at a history of tagged players since 2015, I found 1 that was traded and 3 that signed long-term deals w/ their original team. This doesn't count Davante Adams who told the Packers he wasn't playing under the tag - period. Most played the year out on the tag.
There is little evidence to suggest that the tag is a positive thing for a team.
So, to answer your question, I would have had them let him walk. Bad business? Maybe. But this team has enough distractions as it is. We don't need a guy with Payne's attitude about getting paid hanging around on the tag.
Now, if we manage to trade him for value in this year's draft above the compensatory level we would get for letting him go, great. But do you really see this front office being that savvy?
Looking at a history of tagged players since 2015, I found 1 that was traded and 3 that signed long-term deals w/ their original team. This doesn't count Davante Adams who told the Packers he wasn't playing under the tag - period. Most played the year out on the tag.
There is little evidence to suggest that the tag is a positive thing for a team.
So, to answer your question, I would have had them let him walk. Bad business? Maybe. But this team has enough distractions as it is. We don't need a guy with Payne's attitude about getting paid hanging around on the tag.
Now, if we manage to trade him for value in this year's draft above the compensatory level we would get for letting him go, great. But do you really see this front office being that savvy?
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I’m not crazy about using the tag on Payne either unless they are confident someone is going to trade for him. I just don’t think we need to rent him for a year at that cost. I don’t see him staying beyond this season so not sure I get it.
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Savvy or not you don’t walk a top producer, especially in a must win year. Tagging provides options, the worst of which is paying him at that level for a year.
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We fans have a longer term view than the front office and coaches do.
I'm ok with tagging Payne. The money is market for a Pro-Bowl level DT. But ... he's turned in one big year in a contract year. Let's see if he can repeat that now that he's getting paid. His value heading into 2024 will be a lot clearer depending on that and the team's new brain trust can make a far more informed decision going forward then.
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Both good points. That’s one downside of dead coach walking … he’s liable to be making decisions with only the short term in mind. And yeah, in the NFL, it’s always ‘win now’ to a certain extent…
The other 'issue' is that there was no rush. The franchise tag designation is not due til March 7. Why make him the first one off the board? I'm hoping we hear of a trade in the coming hours, but i also thought the same thing during the draft when we took Mathis.
There are 3 ways this can go.
1. The team is able to trade him for more than a 3rd (because ultimately we would get a 3rd round comp pick in 2 years)
2. Payne and the team work out a long term deal
3. Payne is more pissed off and either refuses to play, or is further motivated to walk after 23.
1 is my preference, 2 is not my preference because of the cost necessary in conjunction with expected costs, and 3 would be an absolute disaster as all you've done is paid a DT a premium in what we all believe is a lame duck year as we enter with limited expectations.
Paying a DT top 5 money for a 1 year rental while you claim you wanna roll with Howell is ass backward. If you're going to go hard for 2023 by paying Payne, you better get a contending level QB in the building... or you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Payne likely is not the piece needed to keep to put us over the hump.
There are 3 ways this can go.
1. The team is able to trade him for more than a 3rd (because ultimately we would get a 3rd round comp pick in 2 years)
2. Payne and the team work out a long term deal
3. Payne is more pissed off and either refuses to play, or is further motivated to walk after 23.
1 is my preference, 2 is not my preference because of the cost necessary in conjunction with expected costs, and 3 would be an absolute disaster as all you've done is paid a DT a premium in what we all believe is a lame duck year as we enter with limited expectations.
Paying a DT top 5 money for a 1 year rental while you claim you wanna roll with Howell is ass backward. If you're going to go hard for 2023 by paying Payne, you better get a contending level QB in the building... or you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. Payne likely is not the piece needed to keep to put us over the hump.
I'm with Neophyte on this one.
In addition to the reasons he already hashed out, I want to also bring up Phidarian Mathis' name. You expect that guys you are drafting on Day 2 are going to become long-term and effective starters for you.
As it stands, Mathis has had one appearance for us (due to injury) and he now stands to serve in a complimentary/rotational role behind Payne with the franchise designation. I am not sure that this organization can afford to make rotational piece picks as early as the second round.
Currently, it is safe to say that our weakest unit on the team is the OL. If we knew we were at the least going to commit to Payne with the franchise tag for at least another season, how nice might it have been to add an offensive lineman in Round 2 a year ago in what was a really deep OL draft...
Some of the names I have listed below might not necessarily have been fits for what Washington runs scheme wise. In addition to that, I am not sure how effectively all these guys played, but they were all Day 2 guys selected after Mathis along the offensive front that got significant playing time with their respective teams in their rookie years (5 of which were on playoff teams to boot).
Luke Goedeke - 8 starts
Ed Ingram - 17 starts
Luke Fortner - 17 starts
Nicholas Petit-Frere - 16 starts
Abraham Lucas - 16 starts
Bernard Raimann - 11 starts
Dylan Parham - 17 starts
I guess all I am saying is that the more time we invest in Payne, the more the Mathis pick feels like one that could have been more wisely used.
Obviously I hope to be proven very wrong on this one.
In addition to the reasons he already hashed out, I want to also bring up Phidarian Mathis' name. You expect that guys you are drafting on Day 2 are going to become long-term and effective starters for you.
As it stands, Mathis has had one appearance for us (due to injury) and he now stands to serve in a complimentary/rotational role behind Payne with the franchise designation. I am not sure that this organization can afford to make rotational piece picks as early as the second round.
Currently, it is safe to say that our weakest unit on the team is the OL. If we knew we were at the least going to commit to Payne with the franchise tag for at least another season, how nice might it have been to add an offensive lineman in Round 2 a year ago in what was a really deep OL draft...
Some of the names I have listed below might not necessarily have been fits for what Washington runs scheme wise. In addition to that, I am not sure how effectively all these guys played, but they were all Day 2 guys selected after Mathis along the offensive front that got significant playing time with their respective teams in their rookie years (5 of which were on playoff teams to boot).
Luke Goedeke - 8 starts
Ed Ingram - 17 starts
Luke Fortner - 17 starts
Nicholas Petit-Frere - 16 starts
Abraham Lucas - 16 starts
Bernard Raimann - 11 starts
Dylan Parham - 17 starts
I guess all I am saying is that the more time we invest in Payne, the more the Mathis pick feels like one that could have been more wisely used.
Obviously I hope to be proven very wrong on this one.
Great points, ST and CH.
CH - to be fair to the team, I'm guessing they felt they looked at his previous pedestrian production and felt they could let him go so drafted Mathis, only to see Payne turn in a monster year chasing dollar signs. Now they think they have a real player on their hands and maybe wish they had gone a different direction in last year's draft. Hindsight is always 20-20.
CH - to be fair to the team, I'm guessing they felt they looked at his previous pedestrian production and felt they could let him go so drafted Mathis, only to see Payne turn in a monster year chasing dollar signs. Now they think they have a real player on their hands and maybe wish they had gone a different direction in last year's draft. Hindsight is always 20-20.
I am just going to assume the team did the responsible thing an offseason ago and explored the possibility of trading Payne. Obviously, nobody was willing to give anything up of significant value for him then. Now, he's untouchable? I'd be willing to bet that no team would still give up anything significant for him even after a great season, using the argument that his 2022 production was the outlier in his career. We will be stuck with a one-year rental at a bit under 20M as Rivera tries to save his job beyond 2023. So frustrating.
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Lol. Let the snark begin!
Eifler & Wildgoose.
sounds like a high end cologne.
sounds like a high end cologne.
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Brut.
By Faberge.
By Faberge.
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Hey, those who have followed this team since Snyder bought it love Wildgoose chases.
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Stacking that LB room on short term deals.. Haven't seen Cole Holcomb's name either... makes ya wonder if they really pinpoint that position in a few weeks
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