Random Commanders Thoughts

[Theismann To HOF]

Heinicke didn’t ‘win’ any games. The 2021 Washington Football Team did. In addition to having a different starting QB, we’ve had multiple roster changes and are plying a different schedule with those new players.

Talk about oversimplifying!

This isn’t Madden. The QB is a very important piece of any team but he is still one player. I don’t hear anyone giving Wentz a pass for his mostly poor play so far. And I guess ‘over complicated’ means actually providing some data for ones’s opinions, you know, instead of just shouting down anyone who might have a more nuanced view.

That's simply wrong. He's is basing his opinion on the wrong information.

He is not accounting for Heinicke's mobility and ability to extend plays, which is what makes Heinicke a much more dangerous QB than Wentz. And Heinicke is also far more accurate on throws than Wentz. The ONLY thing Wentz probably does better than Heinicke is throw the ball deep....how well has that worked out so far?

I told you that Wentz was washed up 2 or 3 weeks ago. Now you see that I was correct.

And I discussed several plays in my previous post in which Heinicke was the key reason that Washington won. There were several plays that Heinicke made last year that Wentz is simply not capable of making. Those handful of plays are the difference between winning and losing in the NFL. And Wentz can't make those plays.

Washington would have been 3 - 14 last year if Wentz was the QB. The defense at the beginning of last season was worse than the defense right now.

And guess what? Washington is going to be 2 - 15 or 3 - 14 this year with Wentz as QB.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

Wentz has, save 3-4 quarters, been BAD. The irony is, I think we all love Heinicke. If they’d decided to ride with him for awhile I would’ve been okay with it. But he’s got his own issues, and pretending he doesn’t is kind of tiresome. They may prove to be fools but the things Wentz struggles with the coaches likely believe they can address with coaching. Heinicke’s imho are more problematic because they are physical limitations no amount of coaching can impact.

This whole line of argument is flawed. You're judging Heinicke based on one season as a starter. How many QBs play their best football in their first season as a starter?

Virtually NONE. If you don't believe me, go look up Troy Aikman's stats his first year in the league.

But Jimmy Johnson was a good coach and stuck with what he had. Rivera is too stupid for that.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

and you're oversimplifying. Like Boone just said, this isn't madden. Changing the QB rated 72 to a QB rated 74 doesn't necessarily bring up the 'overall' rating in simulation mode. There are countless things that go into an offensive and defensive scheme on game day. There's a reason the NFL is refered to as "The ultimate team sport" is because no one person can win a game, but at any time 1 person can lose a game. That 'CAN' be the QB... I get that, but it also can be the guy pulling the strings on offense.

You continue to jump up and down saying we'll never win with Wentz, but we've been a pretty inept offense with Heinicke. Yes, Heinicke is a little better suited to break the pocket than Wentz, but you're ignoring the other 2 levels of the defense he would be going up against. Wentz's ability to evade is there, and he's broken out at times turning a negative play into a positive one. Heinicke COULD do that, probably 'faster' but if Heinicke is at QB, the DBs and Safeties that are 30 yards down field allowing room for Wentz to run... aren't 30 yards down field. They dont need to respect Heinicke's arm. You see how well Heinicke escapes? Well so do defensive coordinators. They don't need to respect the deep ball, so now you're looking at a stacked box with a QB spy, which they can also do WHILE blitzing because you can run a zone shell behind them to take away the weapons... daring us to try and throw the ball more than 30 yards down field...

It's not as easy as "well heinicke would have done 'x' on that play' because the defense would not have been playing the same way. Heinicke also DID extend one of the plays i referred to and threw a yolo ball to Terry and got him knocked out. Being able to escape doesn't mean anything if you don't do anything with it. You reference Theismann To HOF as your name, but you don't grasp how he even got to a level that lets you make that argument. When he was QB, we had one of the GREATEST coaches in the history of the NFL at the helm. Gibbs was scheming and playcalling games in week 3 to set up the defense he was going to see in week 7. He was one of the best in history to be able to get the best out of his players, we saw it happen when he changed from an Air Coryell offense to a power run / play action heavy system. Through 1980, Theismann never competed more than 60% of his passes, threw for more than 3000 yards, or averaged more than 200 YPG... 1974 - 1977 he actually averaged less than 100 YPG. After Gibbs came in... in the 6 seasons he played for him, he eclipsed 3000 yards 3 times (1 season was the strike season, another he got his leg snapped in half), averaged more than 200 yards 4 out of 6 years, and also improved his INT%.

Coaching matters. Gibbs system was simple in terms of its base, but it was ingenious because opposing defense couldn't figure it out.

You say overcomplicate... I just don't think it's 'that simple'

Dude, you are over-analyzing this. I've explained why this is wrong.

Are you saying that Washington can win 7 games with Wentz as QB, like they did last year with Heinicke? Because that's just bullshit. We aren't even competitive right now and we won't be until Wentz is on the bench.

If Wentz can win 7 games this season, then you can say I was wrong. But he won't win 4 games, because Wentz is THAT bad and Heinicke is a far better QB.

And don't tell me that the defense is worse this season, because that's also bullshit. And Washington also has far more weapons at the WR position this year than last year.

With a good QB like Heinicke, this team could win 8 or 9 games. That is the TRAGEDY of this situation. We have an idiot coach and GM in Rivera who is too stupid to swallow his pride and admit that he fucked up.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

Exactly Kel, and that’s not to say Wentz plays lights out with protection, only that it’s very difficult to play well without it.

Wentz needs a freaking armored vehicle to play QB. He is completely lost in a collapsing pocket. Zero pocket awareness, zero football IQ.

And he also does not know how to stop back pedaling in the pocket. That is one reason he gets sacked so much -- he keeps backing up right into the edge rusher coming from the outside. That is Wentz's fault, not the offensive lineman's fault.

 

[MikefromOH]

Has anyone seen Theismann to HOF lately?

He's been awfully quiet.

 

[Boone]

Can we shoot you because you're insufferable?

 

[Boone]

This whole line of argument is flawed. You're judging Heinicke based on one season as a starter. How many QBs play their best football in their first season as a starter?

Virtually NONE. If you don't believe me, go look up Troy Aikman's stats his first year in the league.

But Jimmy Johnson was a good coach and stuck with what he had. Rivera is too stupid for that.

So - Troy Aikman is your example? How about the other 8 gazillion guys who don't progress and can't overcome their innate shortcomings to become starters. I guess if we draft a QB in the 6th or 7th round, there's a good chance they'll turn out to be Tom Brady or Russell Wilson?

What part of 'I'd have been fine if they'd gone with Heinicke this season' aren't you absorbing?

But Heinicke is limited as a passer. He frequently missed wide open players downfield because he can't see over the line and defenders. He's got moxie and is a helluva competitor. He's reckless at times as well, both with the ball and his body. Now some of that may be inexperience. Or it may just be who he is.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

So - Troy Aikman is your example? How about the other 8 gazillion guys who don't progress and can't overcome their innate shortcomings to become starters. I guess if we draft a QB in the 6th or 7th round, there's a good chance they'll turn out to be Tom Brady or Russell Wilson?

What part of 'I'd have been fine if they'd gone with Heinicke this season' aren't you absorbing?

But Heinicke is limited as a passer. He frequently missed wide open players downfield because he can't see over the line and defenders. He's got moxie and is a helluva competitor. He's reckless at times as well, both with the ball and his body. Now some of that may be inexperience. Or it may just be who he is.

So tell me how I'm wrong about Wentz and tell me how he can possibly win more games than Heinicke did last year.

He can't. You know it.

 

[Boone]

Why should I waste my time with someone who justs yells the same lines into the bullhorn and doesn't have any interest in considering other opinions? You know - because you know and the rest of us are fucking idiots.

I don't know if Wentz can get it together. Except for the first half of the opener and 1 or 2 other quarters, he's been terrible. He's not getting much help from his OC, QBs coach, and OL which I think anyone honestly looking at could acknowledge. But yeah he's been bad (as I've said here and on numerous podcasts). But nothing in the real world is ever as cut and dry or black and white as you are making the Wentz-Heinicke case.

But again, you don't seem to be interested in a legit discussion or in hearing anything unless it's agreeing you're a genius in a sea of blind men. So good luck with that.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

Why should I waste my time with someone who justs yells the same lines into the bullhorn and doesn't have any interest in considering other opinions? You know - because you know and the rest of us are fucking idiots.

I don't know if Wentz can get it together. Except for the first half of the opener and 1 or 2 other quarters, he's been terrible. He's not getting much help from his OC, QBs coach, and OL which I think anyone honestly looking at could acknowledge. But yeah he's been bad (as I've said here and on numerous podcasts). But nothing in the real world is ever as cut and dry or black and white as you are making the Wentz-Heinicke case.

But again, you don't seem to be interested in a legit discussion or in hearing anything unless it's agreeing you're a genius in a sea of blind men. So good luck with that.

Well....who has been correct about Wentz so far? I think that should answer your question.

It doesn't matter if I repeat the same thing over and over about Wentz....it's still true. And ridiculing me doesn't change that.

 

[MikefromOH]

Well....who has been correct about Wentz so far? I think that should answer your question.

It doesn't matter if I repeat the same thing over and over about Wentz....it's still true. And ridiculing me doesn't change that.

No, it matters. It is like your kid saying "dad dad dad" over and over. I know it's my name but just stop already. We get it. You're now just being "that guy" like you need reassurance that you're right.

Congrats? You're right about a QB who everyone already questioned as mediocre to poor is actually poor. Big thumbs up to you!!

 

[Theismann To HOF]

No, it matters. It is like your kid saying "dad dad dad" over and over. I know it's my name but just stop already. We get it. You're now just being "that guy" like you need reassurance that you're right.

Congrats? You're right about a QB who everyone already questioned as mediocre to poor is actually poor. Big thumbs up to you!!

I was replying to posts that were trying to argue that things would be equally bad with Heinicke as QB....a total absurdity.

Again, this team can win 8 or 9 games if Rivera was smart enough to change QBs to Heinicke right now.

 

[MikefromOH]

I was replying to posts that were trying to argue that things would be equally bad with Heinicke as QB....a total absurdity.

Again, this team can win 8 or 9 games if Rivera was smart enough to change QBs to Heinicke right now.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better. I'm going back to ignoring your chest pounding and repetitive posts.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better. I'm going back to ignoring your chest pounding and repetitive posts.

But you will read the absurd, but polite, posts that constantly whine about the offensive line and pretend that Wentz is NOT washed-up and that he can somehow win as many games as Heinicke did last year?

That makes sense.

Those folks have an agenda, too. They have to accept that they were 100% wrong when they thought Wentz was better than Heinicke.

 

[MikefromOH]

Watching Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson both struggle this first half makes me think there are dozens of fans out there like us suffering with poor QB play.

 

[Theismann To HOF]

From the Washington Post, to illustrate my point some more. --

Last season, with quarterback Taylor Heinicke, no team in the league got more out of play action than Washington, according to the advanced metric Expected Points Added (EPA).

This year, with quarterback Carson Wentz, Washington has been abysmal. On 57 play actions, Wentz has completed 28 of 53 passes (52.8 percent) for 232 yards, with three touchdowns and two interceptions. By EPA, Washington not only ranks last in the NFL in play action but is 11 times as bad as the second-worst team (Carolina).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/10/06/carson-wentz-commanders-play-action/

 

[Neophyte]

Dude...are you like 12 or what?

 

[Theismann To HOF]

Dude...are you like 12 or what?

A 12 year old who has been 100% correct about Wentz...to your chagrin.

 

[Neophyte]

Cha-what?

If you knew me better, you would know how ridiculous that statement is.

I'm usually pretty early to admit when I'm wrong. Nowhere here (or anywhere else for that matter) can you find me saying that Wentz is the end-all, be-all of NFL QBs.

Now, we love having you here and we love your enthusiasm for the team, as well as talking about football. What we don't love is the attitude. You need to dial it back. Quick and hard. We have no issues with dissenting opinions but we don't put up with the insults. This is a place of respect. Act accordingly, please.

We are a bunch of old guys who get grumpy with people on our lawn.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Watching Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson both struggle this first half makes me think there are dozens of fans out there like us suffering with poor QB play.

Yeah, there are a lot of fan bases thinking the same thing. They put up a graphic about how bad the QBs that changed teams have been this year. It's only week 4 and this game is the 5th for these guys, but it's been bad this year.