Where are you on the Wentz trade? (Poll)

[Henry]

Henry - I agree. But it's a 1 year escape clause. If he plays well, it's a 3 year contract. I know you don't think that's possible, I'm just pointing it out...

I do think it's possible. I just don't think it's likely, but that's neither here nor there.

It's not a low-risk deal. If he flames out the team is out a couple thirds. For a team that will have to draft a QB and rebuild after the coach is fired in disgrace ... that's fairly crippling.

 

[Boone]

Mostly agree. Starting QB deals are never low risk. Bad decisions cost HC's and/or GMs their jobs, and can set back a franchise for years. I also think as I said in another thread, for a team that doesn't seem to value free agency, tough to build a roster in the draft if you keep giving away your picks. I'm 100% with you on the idea we undervalue draft picks.

Part of my grudging acceptance of the Wentz deal is that we grab a youngster high in the upcoming draft. If we don't, I'll be more concerned.

 

[Boone]

And Henry, you know that I almost always share the same concerns/skepticism about any move this team makes. I just can't live full-time in the mindset that there's no hope and nothing can ever work out for this team. Doesn't mean I am optimistic or don't see the same things most of us do.

 

[Henry]

And Henry, you know that I almost always share the same concerns/skepticism about any move this team makes. I just can't live full-time in the mindset that there's no hope and nothing can ever work out for this team. Doesn't mean I am optimistic or don't see the same things most of us do.

I realize that. I appreciate your attempts at optimism. It gives me someone to yell at.

 

[Primus Porcus]

At the end of the day, the pursuit for a solution at QB has become something that carries no price tag. Aaron Rodgers just got a contract for $50 MILLION per year. Kirk Cousins carries a $45MILLION cap hit this season as he's set to hit free agency next year.

The amount of investment in QBs is on a level that can't be judged against other positions. QB is the single most important position in professional sports, and if this past season proved anything, it's that you either have one or you don't.

Looking at these teams, you could argue MAYBE the 49ers and the Steelers don't have top 15 QB play? San Fran legit won IN SPITE of Jimmy G as he threw 0 Tds and 2 INTs nin their 2 wins, and Big Ben is well past his prime. The other teams have legit talent at QB. I'm not saying Wentz IS a top 15 QB, or WILL be a top tier talent, but of the options we've seen, he's about the only one that has shown it. Him and maybe Winston. We just did a QB pod and the only reason we liked Trubisky is because he's the one we know the least about.

I was very concerned with Wentz when we talked about him on the pod, and I still have my reservations about why they're moving on from him. But 2 third round picks and $28 mil in cap space is not a large investment at the QB position. Not when you look at teams like Denver mortgaging the future on Russell Wilson, or the Rams trading 1 first round picks, a third round pick, and Goff to Detroit for Stafford. The Panthers traded a 6th, a 2nd, and a 4th for Sam Darnold.

The market is just different for QBs.

 

[Henry]

Looking at those teams, ten of them drafted the QB they got to the playoffs with. Three of the remaining teams had an elite defense.

The last team, the Rams, the outlier, has suddenly inspired everyone to think "the way to win is to trade anything and everything for the QB spot!"

And we all know that if there's a passing fad, the Washington Dan Snyders will pounce on it will all its might.

The problem is that the '21 Commanders are not the '20 Rams and Carson Wentz isn't Matt Stafford.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Looking at those teams, ten of them drafted the QB they got to the playoffs with. Three of the remaining teams had an elite defense.

The last team, the Rams, the outlier, has suddenly inspired everyone to think "the way to win is to trade anything and everything for the QB spot!"

And we all know that if there's a passing fad, the Washington Dan Snyders will pounce on it will all its might.

The problem is that the '21 Commanders are not the '20 Rams and Carson Wentz isn't Matt Stafford.

I disagree man. The only thing the Stafford move inspired me to believe was that Rivera and co. were right when they attempted to get Stafford. As much as fan's want to yell about Jimmy G's record, and 'he just wins though.' Stafford didnt win til he got out of Detroit, so the rest of the team does matter. When 'the right guy' is there, there is a pretty high ceiling regarding the appropriate price tag (no I'm not saying Wentz 'is the guy' but that's also the difference between 2 third round picks, and 2 firsts, a third, and a player)

I do want to be very clear that I've been firmly in the camp of "if you're just going to get a bridge QB, ride with what you've got and save the money" but i also understand the league doesn't work that way. There are too many other factors at play. Terry McLaurin very like would not sign an extension here (it's possible he still doesnt, but I think the chances are even less) if we don't make some sort of a move to upgrade the position. His career earnings are directly a result of his production on the field, and he can't throw himself the ball. The simple proof that the team is investing in the position could be a difference maker at the negotiating table, not only with McLaurin, but when trying to re-sign guys like McKissic, and Carter. They care more than we do about who's playing QB, i promise you that.

 

[Boone]

I’m really worried about McLaurin. It’s bad enough we might lose McKissic, but if we can’t sign Terry we are in big trouble…

 

[Primus Porcus]

I’m really worried about McLaurin. It’s bad enough we might lose McKissic, but if we can’t sign Terry we are in big trouble…

yeah, NOW is the time to sign Terry, despite him still being under contract for this coming season.

 

[Boone]

I’d have Jon Allen working on him non-stop and I’d wow him with the initial offer.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I’d have Jon Allen working on him non-stop and I’d wow him with the initial offer.

yeah i dont' like the delay... usually I can 'justify' moves in my mind, and this one.... waiting is not good. I commented against your initial fears a couple weeks ago, but now we're on the even of the new league year, so you start to wonder if the team is dragging their feet, or if Terry is taking his time. Either option does not bode well at this point. Fingers crossed i'm proven wrong.

 

[Boone]

If there’s been a player worthy of overpaying for in the last 30 years, McLaurin is that guy. They don’t get it done this fanbase will absolutely lose its shit - and rightfully so!

 

[Henry]

ST, you just said exactly what I was going to say. If the QB was as important as conventional wisdom of the day suggests, Detroit would have won the superbowl. The Rams were a superbowl caliber team without Stafford. They were literally a player away. The trade made sense.

Washington is not a player away. They havent won more than seven games in five years. They need draft picks to continue building. Otherwise they are Detroit with Matt Stafford. I know you mentioned Wilson and Darnold. I dont think Denver going to win a damn thing, and Carolina doesn’t look all that dangerous these days.

It’s basic stuff. Unless you are on the cusp, you don’t trade young for old. You just don’t. The Washingtons have done this so many times over the past 20 years. There is a well-worn track record here, and it’s bad. It’s so bad. Based on that experience I had assumed a smarter, more independent-minded Rivera-led front office would never make a move like this. It never even occurred to me they would do it.

But here we are again. Maybe this time will be different than Johnson, Brunell, McNabb and Smith. Maybe this time the team has it’s solution at QB, because other teams these days have made crazy trades for QBs so that makes it smart now. Maybe l’ll be wrong this time. I hope so.

 

[Knightingale]

My tuppence for what it's worth...

I can live with Wentz, and I'm not sure there was anyone else I would have preferred. I found myself trying to talk myself into Trubisky the last week or so, but was lukewarm at best on him.

With Russ and Aaron off the table, and my belief that we shouldn't be part of the Watson sweepstakes, the FreeAgent class started to look a lot like this years draft class.
There's talent there, but all of them have flaws too.

Trubisky hasn't truly proved anything. Winston was injured and had a bad history of interceptions. Garropolo sometimes seems to be the QB you win in spite of, rather than with...

Wentz is a QB that has (as Boone has said) an NFL arm, but has flaws and red flags too. It'll be interesting to see how he approaches his chance with the Commanders. Will his third team in 3 years humble him? Will he play with a chip on his shoulder to prove the Eagles and Colts wrong? Can he recapture any of that form that once had him in an MVP conversation? Or is it all gone after the injuries?

I hope we draft. Henry was right saying that the vast majority of teams with a franchise QB drafted them. At this point I'd rather roll the dice every year in the draft and see if we can't hit that diamond.

But I'm okay with Wentz, mostly for what ST was saying. We needed at least a bridge QB that can be seen as an upgrade this year, because as much as the guys seem to LOVE Heineke and are willing to grind int he trenches with him, I think it's clear he's not an elite QB. If we want to keep and attract talent to this team, especially on offense, then any player is going to want to know who is under center. That likely includes Terry.

I'd like to see us roll into camp with Wentz, Heineke and a rookie that needs some time to develop. See what we get this year. And if it's a bust, maybe try the draft again next year.

 

[Boone]

True Henry but let’s not act like they gave up 3 first rounders for the guy. It’s a risk. And yeah, a 2nd and 3rd is significant. But it’s not crazy - it’s just a risk. I’ll be a harsher critic if they don’t draft a guy, hopefully in the first 2 rounds.

And I know you weren’t talking to me

 

[Henry]

I’m not really talking to anyone here really. I respect everyone’s opinion here. I’m just howling at the moon at this point.

 

[Boone]

I just meant I answered a question addressed to someone else. We’re all howling at the moon. That’s why ‘Wolves’ should’ve been the name

 

[Win4us]

Isn’t Ron indirectly on record as not liking any of the draft eligible QB’s this year? After relinquishing the 3rd rounder there’s no way they draft a meaningful one this season.

If by chance in hell they do draft one it’ll be with that extra 7th rounder. He will end up on the practice squad, and won’t even sniff the active roster unless Wentz, Heineken and Martinez are ALL injured.

 

[Win4us]

If there’s been a player worthy of overpaying for in the last 30 years, McLaurin is that guy. They don’t get it done this fanbase will absolutely lose its shit - and rightfully so!

Never underestimate this teams ability to fuck up a good thing. I’m actually anticipating Terry leaving, and probably to the eagles or somewhere that’ll make it even more nauseating.

 

[Primus Porcus]

ST, you just said exactly what I was going to say. If the QB was as important as conventional wisdom of the day suggests, Detroit would have won the superbowl. The Rams were a superbowl caliber team without Stafford. They were literally a player away. The trade made sense.

Washington is not a player away. They havent won more than seven games in five years. They need draft picks to continue building. Otherwise they are Detroit with Matt Stafford. I know you mentioned Wilson and Darnold. I dont think Denver going to win a damn thing, and Carolina doesn’t look all that dangerous these days.

It’s basic stuff. Unless you are on the cusp, you don’t trade young for old. You just don’t. The Washingtons have done this so many times over the past 20 years. There is a well-worn track record here, and it’s bad. It’s so bad. Based on that experience I had assumed a smarter, more independent-minded Rivera-led front office would never make a move like this. It never even occurred to me they would do it.

But here we are again. Maybe this time will be different than Johnson, Brunell, McNabb and Smith. Maybe this time the team has it’s solution at QB, because other teams these days have made crazy trades for QBs so that makes it smart now. Maybe l’ll be wrong this time. I hope so.

but we also haven't seen what this team can be WITH QB play either.

I'm not a Scott Turner guy, but we've also never seen his offense with a QB that has a TRUE NFL arm. If the thread on playmakers showed me anything, it was that guys were open and they were missed.

The on the field possibilities with Wentz are on a level we haven't seen here in a LONG LONG time. My response to your comment about the past... we can't live there because those were different decision makers, different players available, different teams. When we brought in McNabb, we had a 31 year old Santana Moss, and Anthony Armstrong as our 1/2 in regards of WR, and even less with Alex Smith. NEITHER of them had anywhere near the physical tools that Wentz has either. Wentz is still south of 30 (til december - I know) but you're talking about an era were 30 is literally reaching their peak instead of starting to make their way down. To be honest, this is also probably the best WR room Wentz has had in his career.

I think we may be on the 'cusp' as you put it of being a contender. The right QB in here gets hot, this team could make a run, especially in an NFC that is very weak. There is a level of eternal optimism here, but there were a lot of games lost last year that can attributed specifically to QB play. We also had a 1st place schedule, where as of now, we have the weakest schedule 'on paper' going into the season. Wentz could take this team to a place it's only been 3 times in the last 30 years with 10 or more wins, and it may be a very small upgrade to the QB that causes that to happen.

I only mentioned Darnold to point out the 'cost' of a QB on the trade market, and I think we would ALL agree that Wentz is more valuable in a trade scenario than Darnold was when he was traded.