Redskins Name Change - On Turning the Page

[Henry]

I feel pretty much the way Knightingale does. It's not that I wanted the name to change, but I saw it coming.

We can say this is all just 'a few SJWs' imposing thier will on us or whatever, but 70 sponsors threatening to pull out? Nike? Amazon? Those people don't care about social justice. They want to make money.

This is capitalism, guys. We always talk about how it's the most awesome economic system in the world. Well, here it is, in it's glory. It sucks to be at the wrong end of it, but that's all it is.

I don't really have a preference for a new name. They will all suck. I will also probably call them the Redskins forever. I still call our basketball team the Bullets all the time. But I just don't have it in me to get worked up about this anymore. It's been a long time coming.

 

[Knightingale]

That's the point I was clumsily trying to make in my post. LOL

This is such a huge global shift in the peoples attitudes, that the big companies like Pepsi, Nike, Amazon and Fedex can't afford NOT to look like theyre doing something. Image is everything to them. This is no longer pandering to a minority anymore, this is now shifting alignment to the majority. Big business does NOT want to be seen to be on the wrong side of this sweeping change historically.

So, their allegiance to the Redskins became a millstone around their corporate necks. Now it's not like any of these companies has clean hands in this, all of them have skeletons in their own closets. Problem is for us, that ours is front and centre. Name and logo. We're as high profile as it gets in that respect.

So they either cut us loose, or they 'ask' for a name change.

And as big as the Skin's are, the team doesn't survive without corporate sponsorship etc. Especially in this day and age where the Skins have been a terrible ticket. Attendance is down, merch sales down... The ship was sinking for Snyder and his stubborn refusal to address this earlier probably hindered the team more than it helped. Even if it kept us as fans happy.

I honestly just wished we'd done this years ago and done it the RIGHT way.

To be bullied into it by corporate sponsors, then to have to do a rush job, and play thse silly PR games just stinks of the unprofessional manner that Snyder has used for decades now to run this team into the ground.

I just keep holding onto the hope that this is a fresh start. I hope Rivera is the kind of man that can turn us into a professional outfit and not a laughing stock. I'm intrigued to see how much of the problems of the last decade or so were Snyder or Allen. I'm suspecting a lot of the latter, because things already seem to be on the up (barring this name change) now that he's been purged out of the organisation.

 

[Boone]

Without getting into the whole politics side of this, yes - being 'forced' under duress to change it in this current period of mob rage (and sorry if that offends anyone, but that's what I believe it is) makes it harder to accept than had it been done thoughtfully, deliberately, and willingly. My other issue is the outright hypocrisy of folks who want to scream 'Racism!' over the use of 'Redskins' but refer to half our citizenry as 'Whites' and 'Blacks' (while ascribing all kinds of qualities and attributes to said groups - which is the very definition of 'racism' and don't blink an eye while doing so every day of their lives). I'm not a Neanderthal, and I'd never want to continue with a team name a significant number of folks find derogatory. I just don't like the way this has gone down, as if all of us are Confederate flag-loving, backwards racists who needed society to bring us into the enlightened and woke 2020s.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

Not a fan of this being lumped in with other items, or of it being framed as "enlightenment" or "acceptance". It is nothing of the sort, it is only people using the facade of being caring to do things that, in reality, help no one, and do nothing useful. Words alter over time in meaning, and in context. Being enlightened means seeking to understand, not seeking to impose your order on others.

One of my favorite quotes is from Albert Maysles: "Tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance". The key problem with the view being taken of the Redskins name is that the only way you can vilify it is by removing the nuances surrounding it. That can be done with anything, and anyone, and is what needs to be avoided at all costs. It's easy, and lazy, to pigeonhole things into convenient boxes to fit one's worldview, which is how people get the word Redskins to be racist.

The thing people are standing on for that conclusion, a document from back in the 1800s showing bounties, is even being deliberately interpreted for their convenience. Trying to say it was used as the name for a scalp isn't what that document says, it literally says "for every red-skin sent to purgatory", obviously referencing the person, and Indian is used on the same page. This whole situation is just a convenient way to get some to feel better because they "did something", even if that something was just destruction for no growth.

Rewriting history, deleting history, does not allow for growth. Understanding it does, and ensures you can actually learn from mistakes, and find new paths to take. If the current movement is the new enlightenment, I honestly want no part of it, as it is regressive and shows no evolution, only seems to be immaturely stating you don't like things so you destroy them.

With all that said...I really don't know where I stand as being a fan of the team anymore. I do think I'll pay more attention to them than others, as there is a connection from watching our players get drafted and grow, as well as there being some amount of excitement for finally getting rid of Gruden. Rivera could be worth watching the team for, and it'd be nice to root for a winner for once, after sticking it out for so long. Hell, without this board, I wouldn't have been as engaged as I was. I just don't know if the staying power will be there going forward, especially not if things go to hell like they have the past epoch with Bruce. As much as some disparage it and don't care, the Native imagery was really what brought me in and kept me around.

It meant something to some of us, and it's messed up that a chunk of the Native population gets ignored because they aren't offended in the right way. But such is how it is when people get too self-righteous, no matter where they stand on the political spectrum. Never a good situation to have a group of people idolized for saying "I'm right, so anyone who thinks differently is wrong".

Also: not a conspiracy guys. People are selfish, lots of thoughts in the world, and the internet gets people together on fringe topics of all sorts. Contrary to what I saw somebody say in some thread over the past several days, coincidences happen all the time I've been getting quite a few laughs at some of the things being said in that regard.

 

[Bulldog]

The fact remains there is no single voice that can speak for Native-Americans so there is no way to cut off the name change momentum.

In Florida, the Seminoles were able to work out a revenue agreement with the tribe for their recognition.

But that was one team and one tribal group.

No one else could really comment on the logo or name after it was endorsed.

 

[Elephant]

I won't bemoan those who will continue to root for the team in Washington. For me, I practically quit on them already. Last year I refused to watch a Redskins' game as long as Gruden and Allen held roles of leadership. Still obsessed with the Redskins, I was not about to give up when Rivera came in, even though I did not want him either.

However, I made a specific request to the gods of B&G, have Snyder confer with Gibbs and bring in leadership based on Gibbs' suggestion. That made the transition to Rivera a much easier pill to swallow, since it was exactly what I wanted.

This whole off-season as we prepared for what may occur on the field in 2020, I was excited to see what would happen with the defense that appears to be bolstered by a generational talent on the edge.

When the current name change crowd began to bang their drums, I brushed it off like every other attempt. I was always resigned by the fact the name change might occur, I just figured people would see it for what it was, the righteous making a claim that made them feel good about themselves.

Then it happened.

I guess I've been primed to leave by over 20 years of complete and utter failure at every level. So I won't be upset with those who choose to stay, it is your choice.

What I will always question is how someone, especially those on this board which has members of the Native communities, can simply accept a change as a so-called sign of the times? I have not been listening to the Oneidas of the world with their manufactured outrage, I haven't been listening to the Elizabeth Warrens of the world and their claimed heritage, I've been listening to those who actually live among or are close to those who live on reservations. They are the ones who should have the loudest voice...and from what I have seen in my, albeit it limited, research is that they feel marginalized once again by the powers that be.

So accept the change, but don't blow smoke up my ass and tell me it was inevitable. That sounds eerily familiar...it was only inevitable because people listened to the same lie long enough, they let it become the truth.

 

[Boone]

It doesn't matter if you 'accept' the change or 'don't accept the change'. It's changing. Some folks view decisions like whether to participate in an organization even though there are aspects of it you find distasteful as matters of 'integrity' and personal philosophy. Others compartmentalize and say 'although I disagree with the decisions being made, I still benefit from or enjoy the overall product'. I think how one approaches those kinds of issues is highly individual.

You stated you won't bemoan the decision of others, but seems like you are bemoaning the decision of others?

Those stating it was 'inevitable' aren't assigning a value judgment to it. You're arguing people shouldn't listen to what we view as manufactured moral outrage. I'd agree with that. But that's not the same thing as acknowledging that in 2020, folks are going to support wiping out anything remotely considered on the wrong side of social justice. I absolutely think it was inevitable. Snyder could've held his ground and accepted the consequences. And I think he should've. But with the tide of corporate sentiment rising against the name, the NFL was not going to allow it to continue one way or the other.

 

[Boone]

And for the record, although I wrote recently that I can't walk away from the team, that could well change depending on what happens. I think a lot of us have very mixed emotions, and what we do may well be dependent on what transpires over the next couple of months.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Give me 3 legitimate reasons.

Now you know why. I couldn't say anything prior to this afternoon.

 

[Bulldog]

We thought Bruce was rock bottom.

It appears the elevator had another couple of floors to drop.

 

[ChiefRunningSioux]

turning the page, is another way of saying ignore/hide the truth.
the Truth is entirely made up drama and never needed a change

 

[Elephant]

You stated you won't bemoan the decision of others, but seems like you are bemoaning the decision of others?

No John, I'm not. I bemoan those that say it was inevitable because they have allowed the mob to rule....saying, "Oh well...it is a sign of the times."

This has less to do with a name change as it does allowing the fabric of our existence to be pulled apart thread by thread. No, the Redskins name is not the fabric of our existence, but it was one of those dangling threads the mob continued to pull at until finally the mob started calling the name racist and Dan Snyder caved in because he really did sell his soul to the devil.

This was a fight that could have been won, if not for ownership like Dan Snyder. It was not inevitable.

 

[ChiefRunningSioux]

No John, I'm not. I bemoan those that say it was inevitable because they have allowed the mob to rule....saying, "Oh well...it is a sign of the times."

This has less to do with a name change as it does allowing the fabric of our existence to be pulled apart thread by thread. No, the Redskins name is not the fabric of our existence, but it was one of those dangling threads the mob continued to pull at until finally the mob started calling the name racist and Dan Snyder caved in because he really did sell his soul to the devil.

This was a fight that could have been won, if not for ownership like Dan Snyder. It was not inevitable.

nope, this was all planned years ago. all part of the last 4 months of bullshit

 

[Bulldog]

Let’s face it though.

Snyder is a nice vulnerable target.

He is a poor manager who seems to be screwing up a business that was thought to be idiot proof.

Well, 50% empty stands and no merchandise revenue means a guy who only owns 60% of the team and has no liquidity is in trouble.

He is Washington’s own version of the Wilpons.

 

[ChiefRunningSioux]

Let’s face it though.

Snyder is a nice vulnerable target.

He is a poor manager who seems to be screwing up a business that was thought to be idiot proof.

Well, 50% empty stands and no merchandise revenue means a guy who only owns 60% of the team and has no liquidity is in trouble.

He is Washington’s own version of the Wilpons.

he'll get a very nice golden parachute on the way out. Its all part of the show

 

[Boone]

No idea if there's anything to this.



If they were going to go after an XFL name, I thought 'DC Defenders' was a pretty cool one. I'm skeptical just because I'm not convinced they would ever pigeon-hole themselves with a name that is 'DC' based, knowing that 80-90% of their fans are in MD and VA?

 

[SilentThreat]

No idea if there's anything to this.



If they were going to go after an XFL name, I thought 'DC Defenders' was a pretty cool one. I'm skeptical just because I'm not convinced they would ever pigeon-hole themselves with a name that is 'DC' based, knowing that 80-90% of their fans are in MD and VA?

Sentinels wasn't an XFL team was it?

It's the team from The Replacements. DCSentinels.com might just be the domain and web address but they could be Washington Sentinels.

 

[SilentThreat]

and if they go this route... there is no way the colors remain. It would make no sense.

 

[Boone]

Sentinels wasn't an XFL team was it?

It's the team from The Replacements. DCSentinels.com might just be the domain and web address but they could be Washington Sentinels.

Yeah, I misspoke... what I meant was, this was one of the domains acquired as a possible XFL franchise name...

 

[SilentThreat]

Yeah, I misspoke... what I meant was, this was one of the domains acquired as a possible XFL franchise name...

I did not know that.

This comes out of left field and is about as 'safe' as you can get. There are going to be people who root for the team simply because of the movie, and the movie is 'loosely' based on the Redskins in the strike season. I'm neutral on this one, I don't hate it, but it doesn't get me steamed up either... I dunno. If they go this route, they better knock it out of the park and not just mimic the uniforms from the movie.