The Trent Williams question

[MikefromOH]

if you trade away Scherff and Williams you have admitted you are giving up the season already. there is nobody in the draft who can fill those positions right away.

 

[Bulldog]

Resigning Trent Williams and Brandon Scherff to top of the market deals is not going to vault this team in the standings. We have had both players on the field in recent years where the Redskins finished 3rd or 4th in the NFC East.

But one thing it might do is tie up enough cap space that a year or two from now when we want to lock up a McLaurin or other younger player to a big contract at age 25 it might hinder us as the Cowboys are finding out with Elliott last year and Amari Cooper this year.

Giving all of that guaranteed money to the OL puts Dallas in the position of having to squeeze elsewhere.

Gone are the pre-cap days when you can spend ALL of your money on the OL or DL or secondary, etc.

You have to spread the money around to critical players and positions in each unit.

If a guy is top of the market in terms of value and price tag as Trent was in 2015 then you give him a top of the market deal at age 27.

But at 32 and with 4 plus additional years on the tires?

A fair estimation I think is that he is still a top 10 tackle but probably no longer top 5.

Is that worth $16-18M on a team rebounding from 3-13 and looking to become respectable in 2020?

 

[MikefromOH]

it would do a lot more than giving them away and showing you don't invest in your OL.

 

[Fear The Spear]

New CBA removes all substance-abuse suspensions for positive drug tests

New CBA removes all substance-abuse suspensions for positive drug tests

If at least 50 percent plus one of the dues-paying members of the NFL Players Association vote in favor of the proposed CBA, no player will be suspended during the next decade for testing positive for marijuana or any other substance of abuse.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[Boone]

if you trade away Scherff and Williams you have admitted you are giving up the season already. there is nobody in the draft who can fill those positions right away.

This is a great OL draft from every report I've read. Mike - what exactly do you mean we can't find replacements in the draft? I'm confident we can if we're willing to commit the resources. And if these two won't work with the team by signing a reasonable contract - that's on them - we can't just throw money at guys way beyond their value. I think Kyle Smith is a smart guy and will make good decisions.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Has Donald Penn officially retired yet ?

 

[MikefromOH]

This is a great OL draft from every report I've read. Mike - what exactly do you mean we can't find replacements in the draft? I'm confident we can if we're willing to commit the resources. And if these two won't work with the team by signing a reasonable contract - that's on them - we can't just throw money at guys way beyond their value. I think Kyle Smith is a smart guy and will make good decisions.

You aren't going to find replacements in the draft that can step in and fill the roles that Williams do of both leadership, playing experience, and dominance.

Plus, how many players are going to want to stick around if you just dump them when their second contract comes up ever time?

If Trent wants 20-25 mil...peace

Scherff has not said word one about demands. He has been very humble and stated several times that he WANTS to be here. You dump him and you send the wrong message to the entire team as well as fanbase.

 

[Boone]

We don't even know if Williams CAN play Mike And leadership? We must define that differently.

The Redskins want Scherff to sign a 2nd contract - why wouldn't they? NFL media reported that the Skins offered him a 2nd contract back in September at 13 million a year, which would have put him at the top of the guard market, even though his 2019 play was shaky at times and he missed time due to injuries. He can be humble all he wants, but his agent is demanding huge money. That's his right of course. But he's not a hero who really wants to be a Redskin but the team just doesn't value him.

I'm tired of agonizing over players who want to be paid twice what their play warrants, and who are more interested in the biggest offer they can get than anything else. He will get a big offer from the Redskins. He's a very good guard. But that's all he is. If he wants to play for someone else for a million dollars more a year, he can and will be replaced.

 

[Bulldog]

Per Diana Rossini Trent Williams is now being allowed to seek a trade by Washington.

 

[MikefromOH]

We don't even know if Williams CAN play Mike And leadership? We must define that differently.

The Redskins want Scherff to sign a 2nd contract - why wouldn't they? NFL media reported that the Skins offered him a 2nd contract back in September at 13 million a year, which would have put him at the top of the guard market, even though his 2019 play was shaky at times and he missed time due to injuries. He can be humble all he wants, but his agent is demanding huge money. That's his right of course. But he's not a hero who really wants to be a Redskin but the team just doesn't value him.

I'm tired of agonizing over players who want to be paid twice what their play warrants, and who are more interested in the biggest offer they can get than anything else. He will get a big offer from the Redskins. He's a very good guard. But that's all he is. If he wants to play for someone else for a million dollars more a year, he can and will be replaced.

he is a leader on that team like it or not. we don't know how they listen to him or how they look up to him because of his status as a vet. but, he obviously has the ear of the team because he helped get Bruce and the entire training staff fired.

Scherff SHOULD try to get all the money he can. he has a very limited career in the NFL and then what? So, just like JJ Watt said, you get all you can and worry about friends later. But, he has not said anything or done a thing differently than just say and do the right things.

you dont ditch both this year. if you want to replace them both eventually, sure. whatever. i am not going to be dramatic and fight over it. but, if we dump two of our 3 true vets from the line to try and replace them with FAs or rookies...we are telling Haskins and the fans you don't want to win. Or you think the QB doesn't matter and are OK with him being slaughtered.

 

[Bulldog]

Again does a new coach care who was a leader on a dysfunctional team that didn’t win anything before he got there? 😉

It may very well be that the team is better off with new leaders, guys that want to be here and don’t carry the baggage from previous beefs.

It appears all Trent has done is excite players to play hard ball on contracts and demand generational money or trades.

 

[Boone]

Again - that's an opinion Mike - not a fact. Allen got fired because the fans blamed him for the Redskins recent failures and because it's not possible to fire the owner. You're welcome to believe TW's narrative of how the Redskins gave him a brain tumor, but I view that as an extreme stretching of the truth. I'll grant you that when he shows up, Williams is a very good player who *mostly* lead by example on the field.

I won't harbor any ill will if Scherff wants to go for the biggest payday. Good for him. But don't lay it on the team and front office as if they're dolts when they can't get a deal done. EVERY player knows their NFL career is limited and they need to make enough money to last. But you can't pay everyone what they *think* they are worth. He's. A. Guard. A very good guard. But a guard. We'll survive without him.

'Ditch'. See - that's a loaded word It implies it's a one-way conversation. It isn't. It's a 3 way conversation. The team - Scherff - and his agent. 2 of those are not the team and have a choice in this.

And it's not as straightforward as you're arguing it is. There are plenty of NFL players who balance the need to be financially taken care of, affinity for the team that drafted them, loyalty to their teammates, and a belief they can win a championship if they stick with a team and continue to be part of building towards success. It's not an either/or decision. You can get rich on a 2nd contract, stay with your current team, and not take the highest offer. It's actually fairly common.

I would love to keep Scherff. He's a valuable guy with his best in front of him. Williams is on a downhill slope and the last type of player we should break the bank on.

And as far as being dramatic and fighting over it - we're just arguing football dude. As long as none of us becomes a complete dick it should be fine

 

[SkinsOrlando]

Per ESPN, Williams claims if the last two years were guaranteed he wouldve played, it's all about money, peace TW and by peace I mean, gfy

 

[Mooney]

... and by peace I mean, gfy

 

[Bulldog]

Goodbye Trent. Take the drama with you.

You seemingly have an unending number of things to cry about and we are out of tissue paper

Bruce is gone. Hess is gone.

What we aren’t going to do is essentially come close to doubling your contract so you can get back the dollars you lost by holding out in 2019.

 

[MikefromOH]

Again - that's an opinion Mike - not a fact. Allen got fired because the fans blamed him for the Redskins recent failures and because it's not possible to fire the owner. You're welcome to believe TW's narrative of how the Redskins gave him a brain tumor, but I view that as an extreme stretching of the truth. I'll grant you that when he shows up, Williams is a very good player who *mostly* lead by example on the field.

I won't harbor any ill will if Scherff wants to go for the biggest payday. Good for him. But don't lay it on the team and front office as if they're dolts when they can't get a deal done. EVERY player knows their NFL career is limited and they need to make enough money to last. But you can't pay everyone what they *think* they are worth. He's. A. Guard. A very good guard. But a guard. We'll survive without him.

'Ditch'. See - that's a loaded word It implies it's a one-way conversation. It isn't. It's a 3 way conversation. The team - Scherff - and his agent. 2 of those are not the team and have a choice in this.

And it's not as straightforward as you're arguing it is. There are plenty of NFL players who balance the need to be financially taken care of, affinity for the team that drafted them, loyalty to their teammates, and a belief they can win a championship if they stick with a team and continue to be part of building towards success. It's not an either/or decision. You can get rich on a 2nd contract, stay with your current team, and not take the highest offer. It's actually fairly common.

I would love to keep Scherff. He's a valuable guy with his best in front of him. Williams is on a downhill slope and the last type of player we should break the bank on.

And as far as being dramatic and fighting over it - we're just arguing football dude. As long as none of us becomes a complete dick it should be fine

no more than anyone else's opinion on a sports fanpage, sure. Allen was fired because Trent sitting out exposed him to a large group of people who didn't notice before or pay enough attention to it. Namely BSPN and such. I never said I believed the Skins game him a brain tumor, not once. If you can find where I said that please feel free to quote it. They were a terrible training staff sucked long before that. So bad in fact that he brought in his own. The players celebrated when they were fired.

I am not laying anything on anyone. I am telling people here who say we should trade them as a package, not sign him again, or whatever that it is a foolish notion to think it won't show the fans that they are already giving up on the season.

Name 3 players on this team who have received a second contract. Trent, Kerrigan, and ? Reed maybe? I can't name anyone else off the top of my head. It shows the team doesn't care about creating legacy players or career players. That is a huge issue.

My point of fighting over it as in I won't argue over replacing them one at a time down the road. If we do it NOW, I would continue this fight.

 

[Boone]

no more than anyone else's opinion on a sports fanpage, sure.

Of course - all we have are our opinions, mine included. Except Elephant. His opinions are fact ...lol

Allen was fired because Trent sitting out exposed him to a large group of people who didn't notice before or pay enough attention to it. Namely BSPN and such. I never said I believed the Skins game him a brain tumor, not once. If you can find where I said that please feel free to quote it. They were a terrible training staff sucked long before that. So bad in fact that he brought in his own. The players celebrated when they were fired.

You guys keep confusing the training staff and the medical staff. The team physicians are who Trent had a beef with. The training staff was fired. There's a disconnect there with fans. They fired the training staff because we lead the league for 3 straight years in players going to IR. Trainers don't diagnose anything. 'The players' - you meant Trent and Morgan Moses? Who else 'celebrated'? The vast majority of players didn't say shit about any of it.

Name 3 players on this team who have received a second contract. Trent, Kerrigan, and ? Reed maybe? I can't name anyone else off the top of my head. It shows the team doesn't care about creating legacy players or career players. That is a huge issue.

I agree. It's a negative. Couple things though. It's hard to sign players to a 2nd contract in the current NFL - that's not unique to the Redskins. The players have maximized the role of free agency, and especially with the restrictions on rookie deals, guys are looking to get paid on contract #2. What incentive do any of them have not to look for the highest bidder on their 2nd contract? The guys you mentioned were all pre-rookie pay reduction guys. Not a coincidence.

My point of fighting over it as in I won't argue over replacing them one at a time down the road. If we do it NOW, I would continue this fight.

Trent elected not to show up. He's already gone in my book. It's all downhill from here in terms of his production - it really is. I might be vindictive about it, but I'm pretty sure the team would love to have him back if he'd just cease with the games and agree to a reasonable deal. I want Scherff back - but again - if he wants to be the highest paid like one of the best OL in the game - that's for some other bad team to provide. He's not even the best guard in football and the Redskins shouldn't pay him like he is imho.

We just arguing football because we can't watch football.

 

[MikefromOH]

Of course - all we have are our opinions, mine included. Except Elephant. His opinions are fact ...lol



You guys keep confusing the training staff and the medical staff. The team physicians are who Trent had a beef with. The training staff was fired. There's a disconnect there with fans. They fired the training staff because we lead the league for 3 straight years in players going to IR. Trainers don't diagnose anything. 'The players' - you meant Trent and Morgan Moses? Who else 'celebrated'? The vast majority of players didn't say shit about any of it.



I agree. It's a negative. Couple things though. It's hard to sign players to a 2nd contract in the current NFL - that's not unique to the Redskins. The players have maximized the role of free agency, and especially with the restrictions on rookie deals, guys are looking to get paid on contract #2. What incentive do any of them have not to look for the highest bidder on their 2nd contract? The guys you mentioned were all pre-rookie pay reduction guys. Not a coincidence.


Trent elected not to show up. He's already gone in my book. It's all downhill from here in terms of his production - it really is. I might be vindictive about it, but I'm pretty sure the team would love to have him back if he'd just cease with the games and agree to a reasonable deal. I want Scherff back - but again - if he wants to be the highest paid like one of the best OL in the game - that's for some other bad team to provide. He's not even the best guard in football and the Redskins shouldn't pay him like he is imho.

We just arguing football because we can't watch football.

Well...Elephant's never forget. Or at least that is what they tell you.

Redskins Continue to Rebuild Medical Staff

Every Redskins fan knew how bad the Washington Redskins injury situation and most important, recovery and rehabilitation procedures were. It was awful. Anytime

www.si.com

Trent Williams wants medical staff changes: report

The seven-time Pro Bowler is upset over the way the team handed the diagnosis of a growth on his scalp, which later required surgery.

www.washingtontimes.com

monumental sports network

www.nbcsports.com

I meant both, honestly. They both sucked and Trent was in the front of the line getting them fired.

 

[Beetlejuice]

Name 3 players on this team who have received a second contract.

Trent, Kerrigan, Sundberg, Chris Thompson, and Tress Way. But that pales in comparison to the guys that we let get away.

 

[Elephant]

Resigning Trent Williams and Brandon Scherff to top of the market deals is not going to vault this team in the standings. We have had both players on the field in recent years where the Redskins finished 3rd or 4th in the NFC East.

But one thing it might do is tie up enough cap space that a year or two from now when we want to lock up a McLaurin or other younger player to a big contract at age 25 it might hinder us as the Cowboys are finding out with Elliott last year and Amari Cooper this year.

Giving all of that guaranteed money to the OL puts Dallas in the position of having to squeeze elsewhere.

Gone are the pre-cap days when you can spend ALL of your money on the OL or DL or secondary, etc.

You have to spread the money around to critical players and positions in each unit.

If a guy is top of the market in terms of value and price tag as Trent was in 2015 then you give him a top of the market deal at age 27.

But at 32 and with 4 plus additional years on the tires?

A fair estimation I think is that he is still a top 10 tackle but probably no longer top 5.

Is that worth $16-18M on a team rebounding from 3-13 and looking to become respectable in 2020?

Which makes me wonder...then why draft another DL, Chase Young, knowing what that all those contract will be coming up in consecutive years?